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Old 07-24-2006, 08:36 AM   #16
Sycamore
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How does one differentiate between what goes in 'noob index' and what doesn't - it's a very blurred line. Some threads contain 'noob info' mixed with 'non-noob info'. I say let noobs search the ginormous index, it's good experience. They don't make noobs like they used to.

Maybe there could be an "absolute basics", quick reference section though - how to change a tire, change oil, valve check, tension your chain etc.
Nah, on second thoughts it's all there, and it's not hard to find.
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
Thanks, Meat, for the (bleep)ing indexing work, and to all the other contributers.

A couple of quick thoughts:
  • In terms of organisation/order, follow the KTM manuals? That is, split engine/chassis matters as they do, and use the same order...assuming KTM is consistent between years and models in their printed matter.
  • This is the internet, grasshopper! We aren't restricted to one ginormous index. For example, how about a "n00b's index" with simple stuff like the basic setups, Flanny's carb guide, some of the obvious n00b questions that crop up. It can have stuff culled from the full index, or even simply be the full index with everything not wanted cut out of it, so edit time is reduced and it retains the same look'n'feel.
  • If the index gets too big, each section can be a smaller separate post, with an "index index" listing links to each post.
Anyway, like I said, some quick thoughts. Feel free to tell me they suck!

I'm definitely keen for the thread title to be used as the text of the hyperlink: KTM LC4 (640) Thread Index is much less user-hostile than http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86958. That in itself would likely alleviate some of the I-looked-in-the-index-but-couldn't-find-it pleas for help.
Thanks for the feedback warewolf; it does not suck.

You organization point is a good one; following the parts manuals would allow people to easily match the work with those diagrams, or easily find the online parts page if they are missing their parts books. However I believe the qualifies as a major reorganization... so it will be on the shelf for the time being. Perhaps if you were to get some signatures for a petition...

I do like you n00b point; what about a big ginormous (I am digging that word it just took me a minute to figure out that it wasn't pronounced like that terrible liquor - then I realized what word it was ) - ah, where was I? - oh yeah! a ginormous link at the top:

n00bs! go here first, under penalty of severe ridicule.

And then have it link to the setup threads, or a culled post later in the index with the necessities of n00b-dom.

The last one, an index to the indices, is another good one, but again qualifies as major reorganization. I'll have to wait and see on that one. I agree that the size of the MOFO is getting there.
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sycamore
How does one differentiate between what goes in 'noob index' and what doesn't - it's a very blurred line. Some threads contain 'noob info' mixed with 'non-noob info'. I say let noobs search the ginormous index, it's good experience. They don't make noobs like they used to.

Maybe there could be an "absolute basics", quick reference section though - how to change a tire, change oil, valve check, tension your chain etc.
Nah, on second thoughts it's all there, and it's not hard to find.
Which definition of ginormous are y'all referring to?

My guess on the necessities of n00b-dom are the basic setup threads (Flanny and Creeper), perhaps the break-in discussion. After that, it get's distracting eh? Although that is the fun part...

The chain tension and other period maintenance are good ones too, but much of that is in the How-to's now at the top of Post #1. So I agree with your thought that they should dig a little, particularly if they don't hardly have to scroll.
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Old 07-24-2006, 03:38 PM   #19
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Yes there is always going to be a blurred line, and yes it is all there for you to find. The problem, however, is that historically n00bs can't find it easily enough. I made a point of familiarising myself with the index - recognising it's goodness - but that took quite some time. On the first couple of skims I didn't find half the good stuff. If I may use the royal "we" for a minute: "we" are familiar with the index (and the site and the personalities) so probably find stuff faster 'n' easier than a n00b - which makes us poor judges of what's easy and what's not.

The n00bs can and will go to the full index, in time. The idea of the n00b index is to get them up to speed faster.

The "ginormous n00b link" is exactly what I meant with the recursive index; an obvious link to one post with just the n00b stuff (also means that post can be edited as a independent chapter) for quick reference.

Sycamore, your "absolute basics" is a good idea, too. I agree most of it is up the front already so not much point carving it off.

Discussion is good.
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Old 07-24-2006, 03:59 PM   #20
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If only the n00bs could find this thread and sound off...
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Old 07-24-2006, 04:09 PM   #21
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indeed!
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Old 07-24-2006, 08:34 PM   #22
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to confuse things even more (if creating a n00b index) - there are 2 definitions (or classes) of n00b:
1) new to AdvRider
2) new to bikes....

n00b to Adv wouldn't know what "Flanny's jetting guide" is.
n00b to bikes wouldn't know what a jet is.
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Old 07-24-2006, 08:47 PM   #23
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very true; so perhaps links to introductory materials would be useful? I have a carb guide in my Yahoo briefcase written by Dellorto that Creeper directed me to - good introductory info for someone new to bikes. Others are probably around that could also help in different areas.

Although at some point they should consider getting some training before tearing into their bikes...
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:02 PM   #24
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Another peeve

Another point to note with links.

Links containing page references are bad because the number of posts per page is user-configurable, thus making the position and number of page breaks non-universal.

Links to a particular post always work and will achieve the same result.
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Old 07-25-2006, 01:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Although at some point they should consider getting some training before tearing into their bikes...
True - n00bs to motorcycling will be unlikely to touch anything on their bike, I don't think the index thread has to cater to them.
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:42 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sycamore
True - n00bs to motorcycling will be unlikely to touch anything on their bike, I don't think the index thread has to cater to them.
That's a bit harsh. Everyone has to start somewhere; maybe this is it?

And conversely, total n00bs have the most to learn and therefore the most to gain from the index. They may also do basic research and refer articles to a more knowledgeable helper.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf
That's a bit harsh. Everyone has to start somewhere; maybe this is it?

And conversely, total n00bs have the most to learn and therefore the most to gain from the index. They may also do basic research and refer articles to a more knowledgeable helper.
I think he meant n00bs to wrenching, and in that regard I agree. We shouldn't be so quick to say "you can do it!" without skill qualifiers like I see in Creeper's how-tos. In the same way it's innapropriate to throw out unqualified information regarding bikes ("My bike's the best; your's sucks!" ) and modifications. Leading n00bs astray or into trouble is unkind.

Good suggestion on the paged links; That is something that I should fix.
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Old 07-26-2006, 03:49 AM   #28
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Hey Meat,
I use the index all the time and the job you have done is a thing of beauty.

Where I have the most problems is in doing a search. I don't have any control of how the search function works. On KTM talk you can dial the search in. We have that option. It just lists last to first in decending order. Can any thing be done?
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
Hey Meat,
I use the index all the time and the job you have done is a thing of beauty.

Where I have the most problems is in doing a search. I don't have any control of how the search function works. On KTM talk you can dial the search in. We have that option. It just lists last to first in decending order. Can any thing be done?
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
Thanks Bill.

Have you tried the Advanced Search? It's the link (unlabeled) underneath the text box that pops up when you click on Search. Just move your cursor to the bottom of that little window that pops up when you click on search and it will turn into a hand.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:07 PM   #30
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warewolf has finished reformatting Part II of the index - it's lookin' good! now if only I could get down there to buy the guy a beer

New Zeland
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