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Old 11-15-2012, 07:26 AM   #3361
James Adams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
The Hella lights on the '12 NTX can short out due to vibration. The leads going into the rubber boot will rub against the inside of the metal light housing and that's where the short happens. Leafman60 can tell you all about that adventure. This will cause a 30A fuze to blow and suddenly the electrical charging system is inop. I recommend installing a fuze in each light lead, in addition to preventing the short in the first place. This job is best done with the side panels off:

This is the connection between the wiring harness and the light leads. Note that the harness wires are color coded, not so on the Hella lead. Blue is the ground wire.

Splice in a fuze holder and install a 75.A fuze. Put everything back in place and you are done! Oh, this is a good time to make sure all the wires are not going to get close to the exhaust, particularly on the right side.
Great information (I'm assuming you meant 7.5A instead of 75A). It's ridiculous that a short in the light harness will blow a more important fuse.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #3362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
The Hella lights on the '12 NTX can short out due to vibration. The leads going into the rubber boot will rub against the inside of the metal light housing and that's where the short happens. Leafman60 can tell you all about that adventure. This will cause a 30A fuze to blow and suddenly the electrical charging system is inop.
Are you sure about that? I had mine blow a while back and when I researched what fuse went, I thought it was only for the headlights and aux lights, and the 40A fuse next to it was for the charging system......

Either way, you're right and the best way to prevent this is to ensure the hot lead for the aux lights is either shortened to the proper length so it won't rub on the inside of the light housing, or is HEAVILY protected (maybe with some of that thick plastic twist wrap). I opted for the first choice and snipped out the spade connector that was causing all the troubles and simply soldered the wires back together such that there is no slack inside the housing. The wires now go from the bulb socket out the back of the rubber boot with no coiling, etc. so there's no possibility for anything to rub. Easy peasy.....

-SM
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:57 AM   #3363
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SM, here's a link that offers more details. http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=58423.0 Bottom line: a dead short in the aux light will blow a 30A fuze which also takes the alternator out of the circuit. Then you are running on battery alone until that is dead. Then you are stuck on the side of the road with a bike that won't crank.

I like your idea of shortening the Hella + wire.

PAY
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:59 AM   #3364
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Originally Posted by James Adams View Post
Great information (I'm assuming you meant 7.5A instead of 75A). It's ridiculous that a short in the light harness will blow a more important fuse.
Yep, 7.5A!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:18 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
SM, here's a link that offers more details. http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=58423.0 Bottom line: a dead short in the aux light will blow a 30A fuze which also takes the alternator out of the circuit. Then you are running on battery alone until that is dead. Then you are stuck on the side of the road with a bike that won't crank.

I like your idea of shortening the Hella + wire.

PAY
I hadn't seen that thread.

Hmmmm.....It makes no sense to me that the headlight fuse blowing would also take out the generator, which has its own 40A fuse, unless Luigi labeled his engineering diagram wrong and the factory is putting the two fuses in series.....

-SM
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #3366
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SM, I'm with you on this. Reading (and re-reading) the Owners Manual the closest I can get is on page 178 there is mention of the Main Fuses, located under the rider's seat. Then there are two drawings. The top drawing is clearly the one under the seat and shows Battery Recharge 40A and Main Vehicle Fuze 30A. The bottom drawing shows High Beam 30A, ABS fuze 20A, and Secondary Fuze 30A. That secondary fuze is then broken down to power some other fuzed items and the injection system. I wonder if that Secondary Fuze is also powering the aux lights....it seems to be the one Leafman60 was having to replace. Also, I wonder if it is somehow in series with the alternator.....does not make sense to me. At any rate, replacing the 30A put his bike back into operation.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:55 PM   #3367
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Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
Also, I wonder if it is somehow in series with the alternator.....does not make sense to me. At any rate, replacing the 30A put his bike back into operation.
So, being the masochist that I am, I took a look at the rather fuzzy wiring diagram in the Service Station Manual. Assuming that wiring diagram is accurate (50/50 proposition), there's no way the aux light fuse blowing could take out the alternator. There is a dedicated fuse between the battery and alternator, and another dedicated fuse for the lights (headlights and aux lights).

The only thing I see that could cause what happened to Leaf is if the short didn't pop the fuse right away (I know mine didn't....it had been arcing inside the aux light housing for some time before it went....it looked like a war zone in there ), both the battery and alternator would be draining to ground through the short so the alternator wouldn't be providing any charging to the battery, or spark, or anything. The bike would slooooowly be draining the battery until that fateful spark that finally blew the fuse, but by then the battery could be so drained it couldn't start the bike.

Maybe CANbus isn't so bad after all. In that system, an overcurrent device is powered down and removed from the circuit so it doesn't impact other devices. In this case, if designed right it would have made the aux lights inop, flashed a warning to the rider, but kept the alternator charging the battery. Of course the tradeoff is adding ANYTHING to a CANbus system is a total PITA (DAMHIK ).....



-SM
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:23 AM   #3368
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SM,
The folks over at WildGuzzi seem to have figured out the electrical maze you and I have been discussing. Take a look at the last couple entries in that thread:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=58423.0

The 30A fuze is the initial feed to energize the alternator so it, in turn, can produce power. No feed from the 30A means no power from the alternator.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #3369
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Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
SM,
The folks over at WildGuzzi seem to have figured out the electrical maze you and I have been discussing. Take a look at the last couple entries in that thread:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=58423.0

The 30A fuze is the initial feed to energize the alternator so it, in turn, can produce power. No feed from the 30A means no power from the alternator.
Thanks PY. I see what you're saying now, and I'm on that thread as NV.

Just for the sake of clarity for the folks on THIS board, if you have a Stelvio and your headlight fuse blows (which can happen if you have the NTX and your Hella auxiliary lights short out, like mine did and nearly everyone else's has, because they're on the same circuit), stop and fix it ASAP or you run the risk of draining your battery and walking because your alternator is non-operational.

-SM
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:18 AM   #3370
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Originally Posted by pyoungbl View Post
The 30A fuze is the initial feed to energize the alternator so it, in turn, can produce power. No feed from the 30A means no power from the alternator.
Ah. That explanation makes sense. That would also mean that you can't bump-start the bike if your battery was completely dead. Most other bikes that I've worked on have a permanent magnet alternator instead, so bump-starting with a completely dead (or missing) battery works fine.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:38 AM   #3371
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Ah. That explanation makes sense. That would also mean that you can't bump-start the bike if your battery was completely dead. Most other bikes that I've worked on have a permanent magnet alternator instead, so bump-starting with a completely dead (or missing) battery works fine.
Hi James,

That wouldn't work anyway due to the imobilizer circuit, would it? With a dead (or missing) battery, the imobilizer won't allow the bike to start because it can't read the chip embedded in the key, similar to BMWs and others with this type of security system.

-SM
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:24 AM   #3372
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First Service

Well I have put right at 800 miles on the NTX now. Riding season is just about done here in NE with snow and ice possible as the end of November draws near. I can deal with riding to work when its 19 degrees F but once the ice hits and they cover the roads and bridges with sand,gravel and salt solution its over for me. So, while I can still get a ride in to warm up the bike for oil changes I am going to do the first service routine. No real issues to deal with. My list is valve adjustment,oil and filter changes, over all check for loose fasteners and general inspection. I will be dealing with the Hella lamps as described here on the list too. Last will we a TB ballance. If anyone has any other suggestions on things to look for please let me know. This group has been a wealth of information for my new ride.
As I live in an area where the nearest dealer I would trust is five hunderd miles away I can use all the input I can find.
I must really like this bike as I have not missed my V11 Sport sice it left home.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:37 AM   #3373
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MotoG5,
IMHO, the throttle balance will make a huge difference (OK, maybe just a difference) because these bikes seem to come from the factory with the TBs out of synch. Now, your dealer might have addressed this as part of the pre-delivery but since it's not on the official pre-delivery list from Piaggio that's not a given. When you adjust the valves I can bet that you will find them looser than the 6-8 that is recommended. Everyone I have talked to has found the valves loose by about .001" or so. You already know about the Hella lamps. Check the ground connections down by the starter. There are two of them. Don't forget to put some kind of fuel stabalizer in a full tank of fuel before you put the bike away for the winter nap.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:43 AM   #3374
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Isn't it necessary to reset the throttle position sensor after balancing the throttle bodies?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:16 AM   #3375
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Yep, TPS reset after TB balance.
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