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Old 02-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #53506
Spud Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
If you dont mind a little grinding , you would be better off with the wider , tighter sprocket.
I've tried a number of different, XR650R C/S sprockets. All of them use up the available contact area on the countershaft splines, and none fit tighter than others. Therefore, I prefer ease of installation. Also, grinding on the C/S sprockets probably doesn't hurt them, but it certainly doesn't help them.

Spud
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #53507
dcparks
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Laugh argh! significant countershaft wear!

sign me up for the "my CS is munched" club. .

Based on Spuds sage advice, i pulled the cover off - ! - rust! lots of it, and lots of in-out play. The inboard side of the retainer is mangled, and there is about 30% wear on the CS splines. . open beer. curse fate. recognize own culpability. pull self together. This is what it looks like:

the retainer:




so, given all that,
  • I rely on this bike. ride it every day. 21000 km (a little over 13K miles). no other obvious issues.
  • cant afford to pay someone to rebuild.
  • never rebuilt an engine, but willing to try (there is no try...do, or do not..)
  • have space and tools. some time (but not much...)
So, given the above, what would you do?rebuild?, or 650r sprocket and tack weld? given the advanced wear, will the 650R sprocket have enough to seat on? Thanks to Spud for the cautionary heads up.

whale oil beef hooked.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:39 PM   #53508
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
I've tried a number of different, XR650R C/S sprockets. All of them use up the available contact area on the countershaft splines, and none fit tighter than others. Therefore, I prefer ease of installation. Also, grinding on the C/S sprockets probably doesn't hurt them, but it certainly doesn't help them.

Spud
Side to side. If some werent tighter you wouldnt have to grind them now would you?
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #53509
Spud Rider
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Originally Posted by Brown Falcon View Post
That looks like fun! You replacing your 200cc trail bike with that?...
I'll be hanging on to my 200cc trail bike. It negotiates many of my favorite trails quite nicely, and it requires far less maintenance than the CRF250X.



I got the CRF250X for the more technical rides, and I'll be putting fewer miles on it.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:44 PM   #53510
joexr
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Put the 650r sprocket on it . Youve still got a lot of mileage to go.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:03 PM   #53511
Spud Rider
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Originally Posted by dcparks View Post
sign me up for the "my CS is munched" club. .

Based on Spuds sage advice, i pulled the cover off - ! - rust! lots of it, and lots of in-out play...



...Thanks to Spud for the cautionary heads up...
You're welcome. I'm glad you took the time to inspect your countershaft splines. I don't think you have anything to lose by trying the XR650R C/S sprocket. I suggest you get either a PBI, or Moose Racing, XR650R C/S sprocket, which will ease installation over the damaged splines.

Once again, I encourage every XR650L owner to examine his countershaft splines for wear. If you see even a hint of rust on either the C/S sprocket, or the countershaft itself, the splines are wearing down.

Spud
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:16 PM   #53512
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Side to side. If some werent tighter you wouldnt have to grind them now would you?
If the C/S sprocket is too tight, of course you have to grind it. However, that doesn't mean you are getting more contact with the countershaft splines.

The spaces between the countershaft splines ramp up as they terminate nearer to the engine. The wider C/S sprockets don't contact more of the splines; they merely butt into the inclined ramps at the end of the splines. Therefore, one needs to grind away the inside of the inner chamfer of the sprocket in order to increase the ramp clearance. However, this grinding does not increase the contact area with the longitudinal surface of the splines; it just requires more work.

Spud
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:25 PM   #53513
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
If the C/S sprocket is too tight, of course you have to grind it. However, that doesn't mean you are getting more contact with the countershaft splines.

The spaces between the countershaft splines ramp up as they terminate nearer to the engine. The wider C/S sprockets don't contact more of the splines; they merely butt into the inclined ramps at the end of the splines. Therefore, one needs to grind away the inside of the inner chamfer of the sprocket in order to increase the ramp clearance. However, this grinding does not increase the contact area with the longitudinal surface of the splines; it just requires more work.

Spud
Think about it. If the back of the sprockets splines were cut square or if you ground the inside ends at the same angle as the back of the splines on the countershaft , with a wider / tighter sprocket , yuo would have less wobble and slightly more engagement.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #53514
Lonestar2112
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Originally Posted by ONandOFF View Post
My stock mirror didn't vibrate enough to complain about at 65. The replacement one vibrates as you describe.
I've never had my xrl on the freeway. Nothing quite like it. 80+mph, knobbies, grooved concrete, 6" of lift on the bars.


I hope that's not as scary as it sounds Broken collar bone that looks like it is going to need a plate and some screws.

Your location is noted as CA - any chance you lived around here before, and we've met? BWDR, perhaps?
I am a born and bred SMIB. I left So Md in '86 right before I left I sold my '74 Z-1 I had not figured out this dirt thing.

I rode the GDR with ScottyP, H14 and Jax this past summer.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:41 PM   #53515
Lonestar2112
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Originally Posted by ThumpnRed View Post
Like this?



Any chance of seeing this installed? What are you making it out of? AL, Delrin, other material?
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:51 PM   #53516
ThumpnRed
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Originally Posted by Lonestar2112 View Post


Any chance of seeing this installed? What are you making it out of? AL, Delrin, other material?
Aluminum. Once I get all of the bits and pieces gathered up, I'll get busy cutting and hacking.
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'93 XR650L A few stock parts left...
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:55 PM   #53517
Spud Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Think about it. If the back of the sprockets splines were cut square or if you ground the inside ends at the same angle as the back of the splines on the countershaft , with a wider / tighter sprocket , yuo would have less wobble and slightly more engagement.
Yes, but the space between the countershaft splines is not a straight ramp. The space between the countershaft splines is actually machined upwards in an arc, and terminates in a scallop.

Therefore, I always recommend the PBI/Moose Racing, XR650R C/S sprockets. I do so because I don't want people to have to expend the effort to pound and grind away at the sprockets, while receiving either negligible, or zero benefits from the exercise.

Spud
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Spud Rider screwed with this post 02-10-2013 at 06:02 PM
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #53518
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
Yes, but the space between the countershaft splines is not a straight ramp. The space between the countershaft splines is actually machined upwards in an arc, and terminates in a scallop.

Therefore, I always recommend the PBI/Moose Racing, XR650R C/S sprockets. I do so because I don't want people to have to expend the effort to pound and grind away at the sprockets, while receiving negligible, or zero benefits from the exercise.

Spud
Thats why I said if you dont mind or are capable of a little grinding.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #53519
purpledrake
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Pining for proper splines...

Thanks to all for the advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny61 View Post
Next Step is to put a new shaft in it
That part is understood. The issue is cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONandOFF View Post
That's it. And it shouldn't cost you over 200 unless you start looking for other things to do in the process. Then the sky's the limit. PS: Got "R" sprocket in the meantime??? literally
This is probably what I will end up doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walterxr650l View Post
I suggest you start studying Steve's rebuild thread. If you start now you should be able to have it fixed by the time the weather warms up. If you really don't want to tackle it Pm Steve and see if he will do it for you. It seems like he does that from time to time. I'm betting he does a better job than most shops. Walter
Thanks, Walter. But studying Steve's thread is only of limited value to me. He does a wonderful job of explaining the rebuild steps, and he was very kind to reveal all of those secrets. But, beyond a basic level of knowledge, this won't help me, because I would never attempt this by myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kubiak View Post
if it was me i would install a xr650r sprocket so it is on super tight then weld it on just for extra security. depending on how much you ride this can be good for years. i would think maybe 25,000 miles on the cs sprocket before it needs replacing, then you can grind off the 650r sprocket after a few years use and weld another on there to go another round.
Kubiak, that is another option, and something that SuperSamurai suggests below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
As the others stated, you need to replace the countershaft. If necessary, you can weld a C/S sprocket onto the countershaft, which will buy you more time before you need to replace the countershaft. When you split the crankcase you should replace the flimsy spring on the gear shifter. You can also consider installing either the NX650 2nd gear, and/or the FMX650 fifth gear. Spud
If and when I get to the open heart surgery, I will have to think about the flimsy spring--it seems a smart thing to do. I don't know much about the 2nd/5th gear replacement (must have been sleeping during that discussion, kind of like college). I will think VERY seriously about the kick starter as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
Purpledrake, Or you could do it the correct way and send me the engine.
That is a distinct possibility. New shaft, plus flimsy spring, plus kick start. Hmmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by super samurai View Post
bring ot over and ill weld it, for now and you'll be able to ride this summer! your chain and all looked great and you wont have to worry about it one bit while riding! when you have the parts ready bring it back over and we can tackle it or i'll just grind it off for who ever does replace the shaft.
Thanks, SS. You are the man. First off, I will get a CSS sprocket (just like yours), and a new retainer. Let's see how much purchase they get with the remaining surface area of the splines. Welding is an option. If it looks good, then I will ride it for the summer, and worry about it next winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONandOFF View Post
Otherwise, what you "save" (being a non-mechanic) could end up costing way more.
Don't worry, On&Off. I would never deceive myself into the belief that I could "save money" by attempting this myself. Besides, my sanity is very valuable, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Falcon View Post
You can probably get by for a while running a Moose Racing XRR sprocket, but I would start saving your pennies for a shaft replacement (maybe CW engine build at the same time? )
Thanks, BF. Have to get through elk season first, without breaking the bank. Moose CSS sprockets is the current preferred solution. Stay tuned for news at 11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcparks View Post
sign me up for the "my CS is munched" club. . So, given the above, what would you do?rebuild?, or 650r sprocket and tack weld? given the advanced wear, will the 650R sprocket have enough to seat on?
Hey, DC. Your splines are much better than mine. Why not try the CSS? By the way, you are only 90 miles from us after the Port Angeles boat. Ride your bike down, and we can commiserate together (or, better yet, seek a satisfactory solution with SuperSamurai).
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:14 PM   #53520
beechum1
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Originally Posted by ThumpnRed View Post
I have looked at the TT dashes. That would certainly make the indicator lights a done deal, but I have to mount my ignition switch somewhere. I also need to mount the switch for my grip heaters. I like to have everyhting in one unit instead of several different mounts scattered about the cockpit.
My TT dash broke the first time I went down. No direct contact.
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