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Old 06-15-2013, 05:06 AM   #3796
Hog Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
A lot of heat gets to the seat due to hot air exiting the two frame openings around the rear cylinder head (shown in the photo above). In some ways, the right side scoop makes this worse as it forces more cooling air across the rear cylinder head, a lot of which winds up flowing under the seat.
OK, So you have now said what I have been thinking, I did not think the Comfort Kit did anything to help comfort, Infact I belive on my tall seat bike it was made seat heating worse, but I put up with it to have the engine run cooler.

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Not only does the hot air heat the seat, but the hot air blows out of the gap between the sides of the seat and the frame rails, especially on the right side. THAT can cook your right thigh.
I am trying work out an arrangement to get some cold air to blow under the seat, currently all the air is heated by the engine, I am thinking that a 1 inch tube with outside air will help displace the superheated air under the seat or at least take some of the edge off, plus I belive that the ECM and battery would be happier if the air was a little cooler.

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Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
The other part of the comfort kit, the duct shown just below the rear shock upper attachment point, funnels the air from the cooling fan downward which keeps that air from blowing against the seat. When the fan kicks on, I think most of the air exits this way but by that time the seat's already hot. Note that this may be less of a problem on 08-up bikes with the revised ECM flash that keeps the fan running when the bike's above ~15 MPH.


As I have have been working on my solution to this issue, I have thought that the Comfort kit air duct slowed down the movement of air under the seat by blocking the cool air that moved by the spring and into the seat area or vise versa, also now that the shock/spring in closed off there is nothing to move the air under the seat but more heated air from the engine. So as I stated before, lets get some cool air to move around under the seat and see what happens.


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Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
After commuting during a couple of 90+ degree days this week, I'm about ready to re-do my modification. I think I'd be willing to rotate the engine and replace the gasket once in a while (if that's what it takes) if I could keep the seat 20 degrees cooler.
Cutting air flow around the engine has never been very appeling to me, so that is why I am trying to go with forcing cool air under the seat. I have had to back burner this project, and LD riding for this season but hopefully by next years riding season I will have a soulution tested and installed.
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Hog Rider screwed with this post 06-15-2013 at 05:09 AM Reason: Added picture
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:56 AM   #3797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog Rider View Post
Cutting air flow around the engine has never been very appeling to me, so that is why I am trying to go with forcing cool air under the seat. I have had to back burner this project, and LD riding for this season but hopefully by next years riding season I will have a soulution tested and installed.
I guess my solution does inherently restrict the airflow around the rear head because it's forcing most of it to go through the comfort kit duct. I'd suspect when the fan kicks on, there's not an issue. OTOH, with my mod removed, the fan rarely kicks on in the first place.

I've been thinking about alternative solutions to the issue too. One alternative would be to figure some way to funnel the air exiting those frame openings through some sort of ducts so that it exited below the under-seat pan or at the rear of the bike without actually blowing against the bottom of the seat.

A few years back, at least one guy on Badweb took a different approach that seemed to work for him. He punched a bunch of ~1-1/2" diameter holes in the under-seat pan behind the battery. In each of these, he installed a 90 degree PVC elbow (on the underside IIRC) pointed backwards. He claimed this allowed a lot more air to flow under the seat (both hot air from the engine and cooler air from around the sides of the bike). He claimed the seat temperature was greatly reduced and the fan came on less often. Of course, this negates any under-seat storage capacity.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:17 AM   #3798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
A few years back, at least one guy on Badweb took a different approach that seemed to work for him. He punched a bunch of ~1-1/2" diameter holes in the under-seat pan behind the battery. In each of these, he installed a 90 degree PVC elbow (on the underside IIRC) pointed backwards. He claimed this allowed a lot more air to flow under the seat (both hot air from the engine and cooler air from around the sides of the bike). He claimed the seat temperature was greatly reduced and the fan came on less often. Of course, this negates any under-seat storage capacity.
That is an interesting Idea Under seat storage is a moot point for me, I do not store anything there now so I will not loose anything in the process.

Years ago I helped build a car that had the engine in the front and the radiator in the rear, So many guy's told me it would not work, They clearly did not understand some basics of physics, Like there is a low pressure area in the rear of a car (or bike) as it cuts through the wind, and if you direct some high pressure into the front, the low pressure will help draw the air out the back. Second is that hot air moves towards cold air. The car worked great and was later ruled out of existence by the sanctioning body. But I have always thought the same thing could be done here to keep my buns cool

Lots of room for something under here !

[IMG] photo cd6c7fc6.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:01 PM   #3799
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Putting the reflective heat barrier on the inside of the frame sounds really tempting to me. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if that would be bad. The hot frame means the engine is transferring heat to it. Since the frame is large and metal, with a lot of it exposed to the air, it seems like the frame could potentially add quite a bit of cooling ability to the engine. And then I wonder if maybe that's part of the design. So it seems possible that the heat barrier could trap too much heat in the engine. Even if that didn't cause damage, it seems possible that while the barrier would stop a large percentage of the heat, the engine would run hotter, pushing more heat through the barrier, and possibly negating the effect.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:13 PM   #3800
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I doubt the tape/reflective underseat insulation will overheat the motor.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:45 AM   #3801
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^ Yea, remember, the engine has a temperature sensor on the rear head. When the engine reaches a certain temperature, the fan kicks on. If the head gets significantly too hot, the engine goes into "skip spark" mode (firing on only every other power stroke) which will cool it down.

You will not cause it to run too hot by insulating the frame.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #3802
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Saw some cool stuff today













Also, I have a bit of a delay tomorrow morning:

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #3803
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Originally Posted by unlucky1 View Post
Also, I have a bit of a delay tomorrow morning:

Ouch! Glad you had a spare.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:10 PM   #3804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog Rider View Post
OK, So you have now said what I have been thinking, I did not think the Comfort Kit did anything to help comfort, Infact I belive on my tall seat bike it was made seat heating worse, but I put up with it to have the engine run cooler.



I am trying work out an arrangement to get some cold air to blow under the seat, currently all the air is heated by the engine, I am thinking that a 1 inch tube with outside air will help displace the superheated air under the seat or at least take some of the edge off, plus I belive that the ECM and battery would be happier if the air was a little cooler.




HR, I put aluminum tape on that circled area and it helped alot.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:55 AM   #3805
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HR, I put aluminum tape on that circled area and it helped alot.
Yea, I did that too at one point. We were discussing above if that restricts the airflow across the rear cylinder head (at least until the fan comes on), which may make the engine run hotter, which could lead to premature rocker cover gasket failure.

When riding at moderate speeds, my seat gets so damned hot without it I'm ready to put the tape back and deal with the consequences.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:19 AM   #3806
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I have the heat blanket under my seat. 2-4 hr rides on back roads (45-60 mph) with occasional stop lights present no problem.. In fact, my fan rarely comes on in those conditions at all even in 90 degree heat.

I have come to realize however, that what my ass is spared, my legs take the brunt of.

Now I know this sounds goofy, however I have toyed with modifying a knee pad some way on the inside of my right leg to catch air, and throw it back towards the bike and maybe blow some of that heat out of there. The comfort kit seems to direct heat more towards the rear cylinder, id like to just get some of the radiant heat out of there.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:02 AM   #3807
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Snapped belt was about a 1.5 hour delay. Could have been worse. Managed to sprint 550 miles across Nevada from St. George UT to Reno after fixing it.

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Old 06-20-2013, 09:40 AM   #3808
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For some reason changing a belt seems intimidating to me in my garage, couldn't imagine having to change it on the road.


You got this via Crapatalk
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #3809
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Nice photos of Shiprock and southern Utah. I camped in that area last summer on my big ride. I got caught under a bridge in St. George when a Hurricane or some damn thing blew through.

I've seen several people say that the best way to change that belt is to lay the bike on the left side using the bag to support it. Supposed to remove the tension from the wheel?

Glad you were able to get going without too much delay!
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:48 PM   #3810
vtwin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
Yea, I did that too at one point. We were discussing above if that restricts the airflow across the rear cylinder head (at least until the fan comes on), which may make the engine run hotter, which could lead to premature rocker cover gasket failure.

When riding at moderate speeds, my seat gets so damned hot without it I'm ready to put the tape back and deal with the consequences.

How about making an air dam over the opening at the front and channeling the hot air past the seat? Not sure if I'm explaining this clearly. I may try this with some cardboard and tape and give it a try. I'm thinking of removing the deflectors so it allows more heat to escape. When I went to the Homecoming in 2008, saw a Ulysses that had the rear master reservoir relocated. The guy claimed the master took the brunt of hot air exiting out. Makes sense.
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