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Old 03-06-2006, 02:37 PM   #31
HarveyMushman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soloyosh
Having worked for a factory team in the past (Yosh) I know even Supersport machines (now Superstock) had parts, like forks, that were not available to anyone at any price. While they were technically legal, they certainly were not in the spirit of the rules.
Whatever happened to the AMA's "claiming" rule? I seem to recall a privateer laying claim to Duhamel's 600 Supersport bike a few years ago. I wonder if such rules are even have an effect on the manufacturers, given how much they are committed to spending.
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:48 PM   #32
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5 seconds?!?

Someone at Buell needs to go back to the drawing board.

That's not even in the same ballpark.

Makes you wonder what was wrong with the Ducati 999 that lost to the Buell.
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SlipperyPete
I think it is exciting that you can go buy this bike for a reasonable amount of money and go be competitive.

A big thumbs up to Buell for that
I was just reading in Cycle News that this bike is going to be protested, as it does not fall into the rules of the class, as some interpret them. They had to allow it to run Daytona before an official protest could be submitted. The AMA approved it without getting all the race board members blessings. Article said that the bikes in the class are supposed to be a motified street legal versions only. Buell got around this and the AMA approved because they are supposed to be taking a street legal engine, melting it down completely, recasting and creating a whole new race motor. Taking the word modifying to a whole new level...

Lencho screwed with this post 03-06-2006 at 03:19 PM
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:28 PM   #34
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I think it is exciting that you can go buy this bike for a reasonable amount of money and go be competitive.

A big thumbs up to Buell for that

31K? That's not reasonable! Only 25 of the Buell XBRR are being made for the US market. The other 25 are going to Europe. You'll have to state your case for needing one to Harley-Davidson. They have the final say on whether or not you need one and who gets them. So it's not like you can just go down and buy one!

Quote:
5 seconds?!?

Someone at Buell needs to go back to the drawing board.

That's not even in the same ballpark.

Makes you wonder what was wrong with the Ducati 999 that lost to the Buell.
Here you go!

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On the final lap, Marchetti led into and out of the chicane and looked sure to hold his lead to the checkered flag. Marchetti was forced to back off, however, when his helmet visor began fogging as he approached a group of slower riders on the run from NASCAR Turn Four to the finish line. This allowed Buell of Hannover's (Germany) Penzkofer to sneak through and take the XB-RR's first victory in its debut race weekend.
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:59 PM   #35
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Penzkofer took the lead on the first lap of the six-lap contest but was passed mid-race by Dario Marchetti, a former World Superbike regular who was riding a Ducati 999RS Superbike.

Second sure sounds competitive to me.... but wait a second... he won.
Wonder how much that 999RS cost?
Call up the Ducati, Honda, Yamaha etc etc factory and tell them you want a factory race bike with all the goodies the big guys get for 31k.

There may only be 25 for the US at this point but they were only planning on making a limited amount of the V-Rod Destroyers until they got additional orders. I wouldn't be surprised to see Buell build more if demand exists.

The point I was trying to make that must have been lost on you is that Buell makes and sells a racebike that aspiring racers can buy that is not insanely expensive. This is good for the racing world, racers and Buell.
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman
Whatever happened to the AMA's "claiming" rule? I seem to recall a privateer laying claim to Duhamel's 600 Supersport bike a few years ago. I wonder if such rules are even have an effect on the manufacturers, given how much they are committed to spending.
No claim rule that I was aware of in 2000-02, when I was at Yosh.

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Old 03-06-2006, 05:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Fluorescentbrown
The Buell is good for everybody. It is a great R&D platform for Buell. Buell owners can apply some of the RR parts to streetbikes. The FX class becomes more varied. Why do you hate American sportbikes?
I don't.

If the XB-RR runs away with Daytona, I guess the discussion will have some value. If they are slow or, better yet, competitive, then all is well and maybe next year's ZX-6RR will be even more badass to chase it down.
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman
Whatever happened to the AMA's "claiming" rule? I seem to recall a privateer laying claim to Duhamel's 600 Supersport bike a few years ago. I wonder if such rules are even have an effect on the manufacturers, given how much they are committed to spending.
I remember that, I read an article on it about suspension tuning. I believe it was GP Suspension online that did the article. It was a while back though when they were F series bikes, not RR's.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman
Whatever happened to the AMA's "claiming" rule? I seem to recall a privateer laying claim to Duhamel's 600 Supersport bike a few years ago. I wonder if such rules are even have an effect on the manufacturers, given how much they are committed to spending.
If my memory serves, a privateer racer claimed the forks off one of the Hondas for a few $K. There was tantrums, finger pointing and worse, but the guy got his forks. Claiming dissappeared after that. I think the privateer did too. -p
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:21 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Pantah
IClaiming dissappeared after that. I think the privateer did too. -p
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Fluorescentbrown
Here's my nickels worth on the Illmor Mercedes. It was built to win the Indy 500. It was not legal for any other CART race due to its greater displacement. Mercededs Illmor was willing to spend the money to build a one race engine which was legal only once. Any manufacturer could have done the same thing if they were willing to spend the money. It could be argued that the Illmor advanced the state of the art in pushrod engines. Look at the Corvette Z-06 500 horsepower and it meets the EPA fuel economy requirements with a two valve pushrod engine.

The Buell is good for everybody. It is a great R&D platform for Buell. Buell owners can apply some of the RR parts to streetbikes. The FX class becomes more varied. Why do you hate American sportbikes?
Small hijack here-
I'm really trying to dig up some old memories here, but didn't Buick try to build and compete at Indy under those same rules prior to the Illmor Mercedes win?
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadhargis
5 seconds?!?

Someone at Buell needs to go back to the drawing board.

That's not even in the same ballpark.

Makes you wonder what was wrong with the Ducati 999 that lost to the Buell.
The fact that it is 5 seconds slower is the least of its problems. At their top secret, well leaked Dayona test the longest run without a mechanicl problem was 120 miles. That would be about 80 short.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soloyosh
No claim rule that I was aware of in 2000-02, when I was at Yosh.

Cheers
Brett
I think the claim rule only applies to factory parts not bikes. If a privateer can not buy the parts using regular channels then he or she can claim them for a set AMA price if the bike that has the parts wins the race.

If you were at Yosh in 2000 then you would remember at Road Atlanta a privateer claimed Matt's forks. The price was $2000 for the forks. Don and the yosh goons were quite pissed and when the guy received the forks they were badly scratched on the tubes. The photos were in Roadracingworld. I lost all respect for the yosh team that day.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:13 PM   #44
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Penzkofer took the lead on the first lap of the six-lap contest but was passed mid-race by Dario Marchetti, a former World Superbike regular who was riding a Ducati 999RS Superbike.

Second sure sounds competitive to me.... but wait a second... he won.
Wonder how much that 999RS cost?
Call up the Ducati, Honda, Yamaha etc etc factory and tell them you want a factory race bike with all the goodies the big guys get for 31k.

There may only be 25 for the US at this point but they were only planning on making a limited amount of the V-Rod Destroyers until they got additional orders. I wouldn't be surprised to see Buell build more if demand exists.

The point I was trying to make that must have been lost on you is that Buell makes and sells a racebike that aspiring racers can buy that is not insanely expensive. This is good for the racing world, racers and Buell.
None of it was lost on me. I'm just reporting the rest of the story. These are not available to the average Joe. You gotta' pass Harley's test to get on the list. Now, they may be in the future but with only 25 being made for the US, they aren't right now! I know the guy that did the cylinders for all the XBRRs. Just sharing some insider info. That's all!

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Old 03-06-2006, 09:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Greg H
Small hijack here-
I'm really trying to dig up some old memories here, but didn't Buick try to build and compete at Indy under those same rules prior to the Illmor Mercedes win?
There were a number of Buick V-6 turbos running. Patrick Bedard drove one when he crashed. They were very competetive power wise but lacked the long term durability. They were running under the stcok block rule. The Mercedes engine was a purpose built racing engine. Back in the 1950s, Cummins entered a diesel. They would have won but the air intake was poorly located so it sucked debris into the turbo. It was enough of a threat that the rules were changed to reduce the displacement of diesels. Andy Granatelli ran a number of turbines. Parnelli Jones was withing a few laps of winning when a cheap bearing failed and took the car out of the running.
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