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Old 12-02-2013, 07:11 PM   #19576
Rectaltronics
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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Dude, you say we can move mountains without such pessimism. But maybe it's just pragmatism when you weigh all the facts; it's simply a bad idea. It's okay to leave the city to do certain activities.

"Build it, and they will come" won't work with combustion engined, loud, dangerous (to ride and to get to), already disliked subcultures of recreational vehicles.

I'd like to see the city spend money on our infrastructure, shit I was riding the Jackie, the BQE and the Prospect today. All of them in dire need of road work, giant potholes that eat front wheels.... Maybe that would be a higher priority?
Why is pragmatism such a terrible thing to you? Seriously, WTF.

Nobody liked skateboarders either. Those parks happened anyway, because property owners got tired of their properties getting ripped up. See any parallels yet?

The road work you're talking about is something on the order of thousands of times the expenditures involved in creating and maintaining a dirtbike park. The road conditions here are a subject all unto itself.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #19577
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
Why is pragmatism such a terrible thing to you? Seriously, WTF.

Nobody liked skateboarders either. Those parks happened anyway, because property owners got tired of their properties getting ripped up. See any parallels yet?

The road work you're talking about is something on the order of thousands of times the expenditures involved in creating and maintaining a dirtbike park. The road conditions here are a subject all unto itself.
I never said Pragmatism was a bad thing, I said I was being pragmatic, not pessimistic....(in my belief that some things just don't belong in the city).

Skateboarders? I'm sorry but that's like comparing apples to bowling balls.

Who do you envision going to this moto park again?
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #19578
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Originally Posted by 12pack View Post
Are you kidding me?

Build a place for dirt riding in the city? to accomodate a bunch of ghetto cruisers that disobey all NYS traffic laws?

Let them ride through and tear up central park, plenty of dirt there.

Maybe I should demand concrete sidewalks, high rise apartments and a freakin' subway where I live in Northern westchester county.

you want dirt , move outta the city.

give me a freakin break.

Hi Westchester!

Let's change this up a bit: Would you like to see legal off-road trails 20-30 minutes from your house? Someplace like power line areas, away from residents?
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #19579
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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Who do you envision going to this moto park again?


Seriously: I get it. It's gonna be really really hard, probably impossible. Non-riders hate motorcycles. Etc. and so on.

What else you got?

I've been working on "impossible" stuff for four years. I don't even think about it any more. And, every once in a blue moon, I actually slip one past them... Enjoy the Moto parking at the Javits show in a couple weeks, eh?
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:35 PM   #19580
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post


Seriously: I get it. It's gonna be really really hard, probably impossible. Non-riders hate motorcycles. Etc. and so on.

What else you got?

I've been working on "impossible" stuff for four years. I don't even think about it any more. And, every once in a blue moon, I actually slip one past them... Enjoy the Moto parking at the Javits show in a couple weeks, eh?
Again, more power to you.

ps - I haven't been to the Javitz show in 10 years, and wouldn't think of riding to it... It's too close...
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:46 PM   #19581
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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
I never said Pragmatism was a bad thing, I said I was being pragmatic, not pessimistic....(in my belief that some things just don't belong in the city).
So you do believe that the city should just be a big slab of pavement.

There were people 150 years ago who were more forward-thinking than you. We are grateful for them and their ilk.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Skateboarders? I'm sorry but that's like comparing apples to bowling balls.
That depends entirely on who you're talking to.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Who do you envision going to this moto park again?
Anyone who wishes.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #19582
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
So you do believe that the city should just be a big slab of pavement.
Well, it kind of is already, with exception to a few parks that barely tolerate horses and bicyclists....

Quote:
There were people 150 years ago who were more forward-thinking than you. We are grateful for them and their ilk.
Something tells me there were less lawyers looking to sue the city back in those days....


Quote:
That depends entirely on who you're talking to.
So skateboarders really use those parks a lot huh, never see them on the streets anymore what with all those skateparks all around the city.....

Already said but it bares repeating; Skateboarding is super cheap, doesn't cause pollution, noise, or damage trails/woods or soil (see pushing environmentalism in NYC), doesn't require a support vehicle, park maintenance, and most importantly - doesn't kill via accidents, it's participants anywhere near the amount of people dirt bike riding does.


Quote:
Anyone who wishes.
How do you enforce that? Why would you allow anyone on a closed dirt course? Would you want your kids riding next to "anyone" who owns a dirt bike? Would the gang thugs be allowed in with their illegal bikes, would they be allowed to ride them to the park illegally?
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:15 PM   #19583
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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Well, it kind of is already, with exception to a few parks that barely tolerate horses and bicyclists....

Something tells me there were less lawyers looking to sue the city back in those days....
You're not making sense. Suing for what, failing to maintain some parks in the middle of what was destined to be a concrete jungle?


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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
So skateboarders really use those parks a lot huh, never see them on the streets anymore what with all those skateparks all around the city.....
By and large, skateboarding is much less of a problem than it has been, but still remains somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Already said but it bares repeating; Skateboarding is super cheap, doesn't cause pollution, noise, or damage trails/woods or soil (see pushing environmentalism in NYC), doesn't require a support vehicle, park maintenance, and most importantly - doesn't kill via accidents, it's participants anywhere near the amount of people dirt bike riding does.
There are cheap and expensive ways of doing everything. It's easy to pay more for a skateboard than a cheap bike and if you do your own work, an old dirtbike can be super cheap.

If you think the skateboards don't damage anything or make noise just ask the owner of a property that has features which attract the skateboarders. You may be shocked.

If you have an area just for dirt bikes, it doesn't matter what damage a bike causes. You might as well be whining about the damage that cars do to a street. On the other hand, pushing dirt bikes or keeping them out into the streets is definitely going to result in deaths and injuries. The difference is that the accidents may involve people who weren't voluntarily participants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
How do you enforce that? Why would you allow anyone on a closed dirt course? Would you want your kids riding next to "anyone" who owns a dirt bike? Would the gang thugs be allowed in with their illegal bikes, would they be allowed to ride them to the park illegally?
Why wouldn't you allow anyone on a dirt course? Why do you call it "closed?" I can walk a block and take a stroll along the Central Park bridal path right now if I want... Well, that is after midnight when my shift ends.

None of these are insurmountable problems. If you were paying attention before, most of your questions are already answered. Read back a little.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #19584
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received these last friday. just in time for the weekend. loving them for my short rides to customers here in the city and just in general to wear all day long going in and out of buildings. 15 oz denim and 4.5 oz flannel. Levis are typically 11 oz denim

waiting for these ones to arrive shortly. their use of fire hose material has me intrigued. not to sure about the fleece. see how it compares to the flannel.
so the fire hose pants came and went. they were heavy. i like the outer fire hose material but the fleece just wasn't my thing. it was soft and all but it acted more like a barrier. when riding i felt a cold pocket in the shin area. when i was in the house i had a green house effect going on from the knees down. could feel moisture dripping down my shins.

whereas with the flannel pants it all just kinda melts together. still can't think of proper word to describe. the flannel keeps a nice pocket of warm air around my legs like i expected.

trading in the fleece ones for a pair of these. the reason i didn't get these in the first place is that they do not come in my normal length which is 34. going to try them in a 32 and see what happens.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:22 PM   #19585
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
You're not making sense. Suing for what, failing to maintain some parks in the middle of what was destined to be a concrete jungle?
Umm, no... suing for injuries, which if you let "anyone" as you say in to ride, will undoubtedly be a weekly occurrence.... especially with as you also say, "cheap bikes".


Quote:
By and large, skateboarding is much less of a problem than it has been, but still remains somewhat.
So do you honestly think creating this moto x park will solve the illegal urban thug stunter gangs problem?


Quote:
There are cheap and expensive ways of doing everything. It's easy to pay more for a skateboard than a cheap bike and if you do your own work, an old dirtbike can be super cheap.
This will most likely be the funniest thing I'll read this week....

Quote:
If you think the skateboards don't damage anything or make noise just ask the owner of a property that has features which attract the skateboarders. You may be shocked.
You're equating environmentalist blow back on damaging land (doesn't matter if it's power lines areas - remember the Spotted Owl?), with some building superintendent complaining that the coping on his planters were scuffed by skate trucks?

Quote:
If you have an area just for dirt bikes, it doesn't matter what damage a bike causes. You might as well be whining about the damage that cars do to a street. On the other hand, pushing dirt bikes or keeping them out into the streets is definitely going to result in deaths and injuries. The difference is that the accidents may involve people who weren't voluntarily participants.
There are areas for dirt bikes, it's called "the country" or rural areas for short. The illegals don't care, they're not going to the country. And they're not going to a dirt bike park 2 boroughs over either in their imaginary support vans.


Quote:
Why wouldn't you allow anyone on a dirt course? Why do you call it "closed?" I can walk a block and take a stroll along the Central Park bridal path right now if I want... Well, that is after midnight when my shift ends.
Walking on a park path is a HUGE difference than riding a dirt bike on a dirt circuit course/or trail. So you're saying ANYONE can just get on this perceived track, and ride? Sounds worse than the Cross Bronx to me...
Shouldn't the city enforce some type of qualification before letting some bozo take his "cheap" dirt bike out for a rip on city/state park land (dedicated to moto x)?

Quote:
None of these are insurmountable problems. If you were paying attention before, most of your questions are already answered. Read back a little.
I've read it, and back, and yes Virginia, it still sounds like an awful idea.

Maybe we should also start hang gliding or base jumping off of all the skyscrapers, hell, fun for the whole family..... I mean, they're here, and closer than the mountains and cliffs.... ;-)
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:16 PM   #19586
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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Umm, no... suing for injuries, which if you let "anyone" as you say in to ride, will undoubtedly be a weekly occurrence.... especially with as you also say, "cheap bikes".
This is going in obscenely stupid circles. This has been answered before in just the past few days. Are you heckling or do you have a reading comprehension issue?

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
So do you honestly think creating this moto x park will solve the illegal urban thug stunter gangs problem?
"Solve", 100%? Surely not. Help? Absolutely. Particularly in concert with some better-directed law enforcement efforts.

Sorry to disappoint your expectations of something humorous.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
You're equating environmentalist blow back on damaging land (doesn't matter if it's power lines areas - remember the Spotted Owl?), with some building superintendent complaining that the coping on his planters were scuffed by skate trucks?
You're the one who brought up irrelevant land damage concerns.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
There are areas for dirt bikes, it's called "the country" or rural areas for short.
Now you're the one bringing the funny.

In case you haven't noticed, those areas are in increasingly short supply and in the few remaining rural areas of Long Island, non-existent except for one or two membership-only places.

I will also remind you we do have shit-tons of undeveloped land (er, you know, DIRT!) right in the five boroughs where most of the noise would go un-noticed.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Walking on a park path is a HUGE difference than riding a dirt bike on a dirt circuit course/or trail. So you're saying ANYONE can just get on this perceived track, and ride? Sounds worse than the Cross Bronx to me...
Shouldn't the city enforce some type of qualification before letting some bozo take his "cheap" dirt bike out for a rip on city/state park land (dedicated to moto x)?
And now that I'm back in Queens, I can go to the Kissena Velodrome and ride my bicycle there at breakneck speeds. It's wide open. Every now and then someone rides a motorcycle onto it but such is life. Sometimes people run right lights, jay-walk. Can't prevent thoughtcrime. At least not yet.

Qualification has been left up to the state and the feds. So far the state and feds have decided to leave it largely unregulated except for noise and sparks. Dual-purpose is of course a horse of a slightly different color since it has to comply with highway requirements.

Lots of dangerous things are largely unregulated. If you're one of those weirdos who think everything from toothpicks to chainsaws needs massive government intervention including mandatory training, licensing, fees, etc. you go right on ahead and bend over. Don't be surprised if people think you're an idiot for that. This is fodder for another discussion but in the grand scheme of things I believe that kind of thinking is going to destroy the gene pool.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
Maybe we should also start hang gliding or base jumping off of all the skyscrapers, hell, fun for the whole family..... I mean, they're here, and closer than the mountains and cliffs.... ;-)
Yawn. Stop acting like being a douche.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:33 AM   #19587
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It's been brought up that someone who doesn't live in the city has no rights in this discussion. Wrong! The city has a way of impacting everyone in the general vicinity, that's why it's referred to as the "metropolitan area", "tri-state area", etc.

Anyone who lives, has lived, works, has worked, lives close, owns a business there, ,etc., etc,. etc., is impacted by what happens there, so let's leave that argument out.

We've seen time and time again that dedicated people can make unbelievable things happen, Jesse, a big thumbs up to you!

The Times is running an "op-doc" piece, whatever the hell that means, on a documentary movie about the same type of rogue riders in Baltimore. Except this guy is spinning it so these poor miscreants are little misunderstood people who see their illegal riding as a way out of the drug and gang culture. Really? We've seen they can be a gang unto themselves. Same MO: no insurance, no driver's license, wolf packs stunting on the streets, etc. Not hero material, at least to me.

Here's the article and video. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/op...21hNbWDQIk3Z3w
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:42 AM   #19588
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The "Image"

Jesse, Brad, I commend you two for the time and effort you've put into trying to get motorcycle riding and commuting on an even foot with other ways of getting around the city. But our image has been seriously effected by the recent West Side highway events.

Back in 1947, we had the Hollister Riots. A bunch of motorcyclists, out to have some fun, ruined motorcycling for years. Honda, with an heroic effort, recovered some of it, but now, we have set the clock back again.

The Hollister Riots:
http://www.salinasramblersmc.org/his...ke_Article.htm



The only good thing to come out of the West Side Highway debacle is that people seem to get out of my way now when I'm riding around the countryside. A dubious reward....
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:55 AM   #19589
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
Yawn. Stop acting like being a douche.

Again, I'm sorry if my realistic view on this subject has you now resorting to name calling man.

But if you so desperately desire to have dirt trail riding next store to your house, living in Queens, LI or anywhere in the NYC area is probably not the best option for you.

Your counter points seem so contrived, forced, and blind at this stage I'll rest my argument.

All the best.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:12 AM   #19590
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Don't we have anything else to argue about?
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