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Old 05-17-2008, 02:08 PM   #3046
Killyman
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What we are dealing with!

Latest issue of AMA magazine has a good article on the problem with the NYC DOT and NYPD's attitude toward motorcycles.



New York City Transportation Department thumbs nose at federal law
Posted March 3, 2008

http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2008/NYC.asp

In one of the most outrageous acts the American Motorcyclist Association has seen in years, the New York City Transportation Department defiantly refuses to change its rules so that they comply with federal law to allow motorcycles to use high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes.

The department states that it won't change its rules to comply with federal law because the New York City Police Department opposes the change. But transportation officials refuse to explain the police opposition despite numerous attempts by the American Motorcyclist Association to get an explanation. The Police Department opposition was supposed to have been recorded, but wasn't, in a public forum--a city Transportation Department hearing that was held Sept. 12, 2007 to change department rules related to motorcycle use of HOV lanes to comply with federal law. The rule change was to go into effect within 60 days of that hearing.

"New York City’s public servants are intentionally ignoring a law passed by the American people's elected representatives in the U.S. Congress," says Imre Szauter, AMA legislative affairs specialist, who has been trying to get answers from New York City transportation officials on the HOV-motorcycle issue.

"Because the New York City Transportation Department refuses to change its rules, every American motorcyclist faces tickets and fines when riding in New York City HOV lanes," Szauter continues. "This is outrageous and totally unacceptable. Karen Perrine of Staten Island, New York, suffered through a two-and-a-half-year nightmare because of a ticket she got on Oct. 26, 2005 while riding her Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle in a New York City HOV lane".

In recent years, motorcyclists in Phoenix and Pittsburgh also were ticketed for riding in HOV lanes. But those tickets were dismissed when the ticketed motorcyclists and the American Motorcyclist Association pointed out that federal law allows motorcycles in HOV lanes.

In fact, Pittsburgh even put up signs allowing motorcycles in HOV lanes after officials there were informed of the federal law.
The U.S. Code governing HOV lanes--Title 23, Section 166 (23USC166)--states agencies that govern HOV lanes must allow motorcycles to use the lanes unless they prove motorcycles pose a safety hazard on the lanes, and that proof is accepted by the U.S. Transportation Secretary following a Federal Register notice and public comment period on the ban.
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Old 05-17-2008, 03:38 PM   #3047
wreckhog
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I believe that at a vehicle stop you are technically under arrest, which of course is different than being charged. The cops are within rights to do anything that they would do to any criminal. Keys, cuffs, whatever.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:43 PM   #3048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckhog
I believe that at a vehicle stop you are technically under arrest, which of course is different than being charged. The cops are within rights to do anything that they would do to any criminal. Keys, cuffs, whatever.
That would be completely incorrect. A stop by the police results in what is best described as "investigative detention." You are not under arrest, but you are not free to leave at that point either. Generally when under investigative detention you cannot be transported from that spot in police custody nor can you be handcuffed unless there is reason to believe, through your words or actions, that you pose a physical threat to the officer. Use of handcuffs during an investigative detention is not advisable as it starts to edge the encounter more toward an arrest so there has to be a really good reason for it. It's very rarely done.

The minimum standard of proof for an arrest is when the officer has probable cause to believe that you have committed a crime. This is a higher standard than what is required for a stop. That standard is that the officer has a "reasonable articulable suspicion" that you are up to some sort of criminal activity.

When you get a traffic citation, you are getting that in lieu of being arrested for the traffic violation you are alleged to have committed.. That's why people who don't sign tickets are retarded. If you refuse to sign the ticket when you are issued it, you are basically saying "no thank you, I refuse to accept this citation releasing me on my own recognizance and I would prefer to be arrested and booked for this violation." Dumb.
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:04 PM   #3049
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You sound right. But I also see police procedures (car stop) involving seizing keys. Is this then illlegal?

http://www.policelink.com/training/a...stop-procedure
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:37 PM   #3050
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I don't know if the grabbing keys thing is illegal or not. That's one of the open questions. However the procedure you posted is not for a typical car stop. That's for a felony car stop -- when the officers have reason to believe the occupants of the car have committed a serious crime, usually involving violence and quite possibly the use of a weapon and when the officers have reason to believe that there is a very grave danger to their safety to conduct a normal traffic stop.

That's not something that would be used on a regular basis, say to pull a motorcyclist over for lane splitting. That's something that would be used to pull over an armed robbery or murder suspect. What's also not directly mentioned in that procedure is all that would be done with the officers in a position of cover. They would all have their weapons drawn and trained on the suspect vehicle. It's a little bit more of an intense situation than a typical car stop. Even so, the subjects in the car are not under arrest at that time, but they are certainly being detained until the police can ascertain their identities and determine if they are the suspects being sought for whatever major crime.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:45 PM   #3051
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I think Perry has it right. NYC and the juristiction of the NYPD have become a police state. Tickets are money makers for the city. A large percentage of the motorcyle riders in our area namely Brooklyn and the Bronx are squids on street bikes that dont portray the image of a responsible motorcylist. That gives a reason for the cops to profile them and anything else on two wheels. How many guys do you know of or hear about who ride without a license? Cha ching for an "operating without license" ticket. File a complaint with a city agency about another city agency, that will get you far. Lets look at some of the things the NYPD has gotten away with in the past 6 months. You think anyone gives a rats ass that you were pulled over for no reason.
City Hall & Rising Gas Prices. Cant do shit about either.

Advice that come from friends that are NYPD officers. Stay out of NYC on a bike. If you do get pulled over this should be the dialog: Yes officer, yes officer, yes officer, sorry officer, wont happen again officer, thank you for my tickets officer. The more you talk and "but, but, hey you cant do that" the better you chances are of getting booked.
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:25 PM   #3052
DR. Rock
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We're baaaackkk

What a trip. 3400 miles of (mostly) dirt. All went (mostly) well. Will download photos tomorrow, ride report to follow. Exhausted. Still on mountain time. I'll be reading threads, catching up on what's new. Will try to bring the Terra Mostro to the Ear... it's arrived since we've been gone, haven't seen it yet, though. Hope the key's in it.

Start thinking about a date for a roof barbeque!

See y'all soon.

d
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:36 AM   #3053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR. Rock
What a trip. 3400 miles of (mostly) dirt. All went (mostly) well. Will download photos tomorrow, ride report to follow. Exhausted. Still on mountain time. I'll be reading threads, catching up on what's new. Will try to bring the Terra Mostro to the Ear... it's arrived since we've been gone, haven't seen it yet, though. Hope the key's in it.

Start thinking about a date for a roof barbeque!

See y'all soon.

d
We were thinking of you this weekend and wondering where you were. Glad to hear you made it back w/o incident. Looking forward to a ride report and a bbq.

Welcome back!!!
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:26 PM   #3054
MichaelSr
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Ok the heat is on in the 5 boros. Have all your paperwork on you, get your bike inspected ( $6.00 ). Put on a DOT helmet. Even if a full face wear eye protection, I got stopped last year for having my face shield flipped up. If you are going to lane split USE YOUR HEAD look around for the cops. If you dont know what to look for then dont split. If a turn is in the road and you cant see up ahead then tuck back into a lane till you can see up ahead again. It's not rocket science. Ohh if you have a load exhaust try pulling in the clutch and coast by the cops, or shift into a higher gear so your rpm's drop and your noise level goes down. If you get stoped shut off quick push to the side and maybe they wont notice the EPA fine print on the muffler. Not rocket science.
Mike
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:32 PM   #3055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSr
Ok the heat is on in the 5 boros. Have all your paperwork on you, get your bike inspected ( $6.00 ). Put on a DOT helmet. Even if a full face wear eye protection, I got stopped last year for having my face shield flipped up. If you are going to lane split USE YOUR HEAD look around for the cops. If you dont know what to look for then dont split. If a turn is in the road and you cant see up ahead then tuck back into a lane till you can see up ahead again. It's not rocket science. Ohh if you have a load exhaust try pulling in the clutch and coast by the cops, or shift into a higher gear so your rpm's drop and your noise level goes down. If you get stoped shut off quick push to the side and maybe they wont notice the EPA fine print on the muffler. Not rocket science.
Mike
Good advice. Been following this thread and trying to reconcile it with past week's riding up and down the west side, morningside and wash. heights and the west bronx (various times: a few mornings and a few evenings; some afternoons). Haven't noticed any unusually active police presence on the west side or the henry hudson, but then again, haven't been on the fdr or the harlem river or on any of the bronx highways, besides the h-hudson pkwy, in a few weeks.

Regardless, thanks to the posters who've had some brush-ins and brush-ups for keeping us all in the loop ... and sorry to the guys who've gotten ticketed. that blows.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:48 PM   #3056
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Yeah I haven't personally seen much of this police activity either but I'm usually in Manhattan in evenings or weekends only. It sounds like most of the enforcement is happening during rush hours at major highway junction points. I just happen to not usually be there during those hours.
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The Jerk screwed with this post 05-19-2008 at 03:29 PM
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:10 PM   #3057
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Going to work this past sunday morning I saw Hwy 2 at the end of the Prospect Expy nailing speeders as they aproached Church Ave. He was'nt even hiding he had his marked cruiser stopped at the light he was standing outside his door with the radar gun and just nailing the motorist coming around the last blind curve before Church Ave.
Just fishing........
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:27 AM   #3058
DR. Rock
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NYC-area Andy Strapz order

Cross-posting to the Ear thread. I decided to leave my Andy Strapz Expedition Pannierz on the DRZ out west, so I'm going to be ordering another set for the Terra Mostro in the next few days.



As they come from Australia, if anyone else wants to order anything from Andy, let me know and we can split the shipping.

Last time I ordered, Keith got himself a nice pimp hat made of wombat skin or something. Look at him now.

PM me of find me at the EAR tonight if yer interested.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:38 AM   #3059
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Reverse commute, Manhattan to CT

Do any of you guys do the reverse commute from the city up to CT? I've got an offer to interview up there (I think it's in Stamford, will have the exact address this afternoon) and have been debating whether this would be worth it or not. I'd lean towards Metro North for the winter/bad weather days but is it a decent commute on the bike or will I just be even more bitter after a few months of working through that traffic?
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:48 AM   #3060
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I drive up to NH once a month and take the Merrit Pkwy from the TZ bridge all the way up to 91. I leave pretty early (5:30-6am) and there is no traffice until Hartford, everyone else is driving in the other direction.

I know this doesn't help you much because you are starting in NYC but once you get to the Merritt is a breeze... good luck.

You still play rugby? I'm a prop and have been playing since I was 12.
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