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Old 11-17-2010, 05:20 AM   #8761
TengaiJohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironkique
If we all were allowed to carry guns, that would keep all the scumbags in line. I'm sure cops would be more respectful too....
I'm not a big fan of guns, but having grown up in a military dictatorship, I have to admit that I prefer the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude ....
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:04 AM   #8762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
i can't afford to risk the money on their arbitrary determination...does this mean i don't have a 2A right?

before you start, there's a BIG difference between "law enforcement" and "law"...make sure you're talking about what you know about...and i'll talk about what i know about. we all know how cops feel about law...indifferent at best...antagonistic at worst. (see post 8750 above).

abe
This is not the first time you've ranted about something, then when called on it, back pedal with "I'll probably never get it" or some such.

Since people do, in fact, get permits, why don't you give up some restaurant tabs and put your money into trying for a permit? You seem to have all this legal knowledge, why not put it towards litigation of a permit if you feel your 2A rights are being violated?

If you feel as strongly as you espouse here, it would seem a no brainer.

LEOs should leave their weapons at work when off duty? You think having unpaid eyes and ears out there is a bad thing? I was not an NYPD officer, I worked for the state. There are probably 50 thousand LEOs in NYC, including NYPD, corrections, MTA, courts, DEC, various tax enforcement officers, etc. and who knows how many federal officers. You'd be amazed at how many arrests are made by off duty, and even retired officers. I took action involving firearms off duty twice. Would you, without a weapon, do the same?
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:38 AM   #8763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66
Since people do, in fact, get permits, why don't you give up some restaurant tabs and put your money into trying for a permit? You seem to have all this legal knowledge, why not put it towards litigation of a permit if you feel your 2A rights are being violated?
Yeah, litigation of a permit. Why should anyone have to go through that?

In the past I have spoken to attorneys specializing in processing NYC carry permit applications and they won't even take my money. The idea here seems to be that if you think you have a need for a carry permit you should hire licensed armed guards (who of course can carry only when on assignment) and that even if you somehow prove a need which somehow obviates the armed guards, you can only carry when you're engaged in the activity that substantiates your perceived need. The only folks in NYC who can truly carry at will are in law enforcement, or who are politically well connected.

Hopefully this will change soon, given this year's 2A decision, but I'm not holding my breath.

Some while ago there was an organization in NY that gave members peace officer status to obtain carry permits. I wonder if that still works...
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:34 PM   #8764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66
This is not the first time you've ranted about something, then when called on it, back pedal with "I'll probably never get it" or some such.

Since people do, in fact, get permits, why don't you give up some restaurant tabs and put your money into trying for a permit? You seem to have all this legal knowledge, why not put it towards litigation of a permit if you feel your 2A rights are being violated?

If you feel as strongly as you espouse here, it would seem a no brainer.

LEOs should leave their weapons at work when off duty? You think having unpaid eyes and ears out there is a bad thing? I was not an NYPD officer, I worked for the state. There are probably 50 thousand LEOs in NYC, including NYPD, corrections, MTA, courts, DEC, various tax enforcement officers, etc. and who knows how many federal officers. You'd be amazed at how many arrests are made by off duty, and even retired officers. I took action involving firearms off duty twice. Would you, without a weapon, do the same?
see? as Brad pointed out you're ignoring "shall not be infringed."

i think having to put up a few hundred dollars for an application, going through an onerous interview process, and risking that that may deny for capricious and arbitrary reasons functions as an "effective ban."

just because they grant SOME permits does not mean they do not deny the vast majority of applicants and dissuade some greater number from asserting their rights.

if they want to do it properly, my suggestion is that NY become a "shall issue" state and then have reasonable restrictions (felony convictions, mental illness, etc). that way, i would know whether i would qualify ahead of my application.

litigation is not cheap or certain, so let's stop looking at it as some solves-all-problems solution.

So, if you took action off-duty....to good effect...why shouldn't i be able to do the same? if 50,000 armed LEO on the streets is so good, what about 8 million new yorkers???? the only reason you took action is because you were armed? i wouldn't intervene without being certain i could effectively handle it...neither would you...so why should i be forced to be at the mercy of criminals?

abe
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:34 PM   #8765
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all I can say is texas would be the fit you well if you want to carry
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:35 PM   #8766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV NY
all I can say is texas would be the fit you well if you want to carry
i believe arizona is even better.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:48 PM   #8767
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[quote=bostonsr

So, if you took action off-duty....to good effect...why shouldn't i be able to do the same? if 50,000 armed LEO on the streets is so good, what about 8 million new yorkers???? the only reason you took action is because you were armed? i wouldn't intervene without being certain i could effectively handle it...neither would you...so why should i be forced to be at the mercy of criminals?

abe[/quote]

I think you're confusing two issues. It's not the police who are restricting your right to carry a weapon, it's your politicians. The police only do what they're told.

I have no problem with citizens carrying weapons. I think an armed population is a good thing.

"the only reason you took action is because you were armed" Yes, but I have also disarmed people without resorting to weapons. But I did it because I was trained and paid to do it. To be honest, being retired and a civilian just like you, I'd probably not get involved at this point unless it had to do with myself or my family.

Again, you seem so deeply disturbed by this that an Article 78 might do you some good. ;>) But with your avowed dislike of everything NYC, you probably won't be here long enough for the initial permit process to take place. Do they just hand out permits in your hometown?

You might like Vermont, they don't issue permits because no permit is required to carry.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:21 PM   #8768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
see? as Brad pointed out you're ignoring "shall not be infringed."

i think having to put up a few hundred dollars for an application, going through an onerous interview process, and risking that that may deny for capricious and arbitrary reasons functions as an "effective ban."

just because they grant SOME permits does not mean they do not deny the vast majority of applicants and dissuade some greater number from asserting their rights.

if they want to do it properly, my suggestion is that NY become a "shall issue" state and then have reasonable restrictions (felony convictions, mental illness, etc). that way, i would know whether i would qualify ahead of my application.

litigation is not cheap or certain, so let's stop looking at it as some solves-all-problems solution.

So, if you took action off-duty....to good effect...why shouldn't i be able to do the same? if 50,000 armed LEO on the streets is so good, what about 8 million new yorkers???? the only reason you took action is because you were armed? i wouldn't intervene without being certain i could effectively handle it...neither would you...so why should i be forced to be at the mercy of criminals?

abe


Aren't you a resident of DC?

Unless you have a NYS driver's license APT lease, everything in your name, NY resident (not student), can prove you have a life threatening job daily, carry over $10,000 cash/gold/diamonds on your person for a living, or are an ex FBI/Police member - you can forget getting a NYC carry license.

From 88 to 92 I had a NYS handgun permit, target only mind you (but that's why they had 24hr ranges... ). By law I technically wasn't allowed in NYC limits.

It took 6 months, and around a grand to apply, also took about a hundred hoops jumped, notarized letters from past teachers, neighbors, friends on the force, etc etc etc.... The process back in the 80s, when crime was rampant here was close to impossible.


good luck...
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:27 PM   #8769
ADV NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac
Aren't you a resident of DC?

Unless you have a NYS driver's license APT lease, everything in your name, NY resident (not student), can prove you have a life threatening job daily, carry over $10,000 cash/gold/diamonds on your person for a living, or are an ex FBI/Police member - you can forget getting a NYC carry license.

From 88 to 92 I had a NYS handgun permit, target only mind you (but that's why they had 24hr ranges... ). By law I technically wasn't allowed in NYC limits.

It took 6 months, and around a grand to apply, also took about a hundred hoops jumped, notarized letters from past teachers, neighbors, friends on the force, etc etc etc.... The process back in the 80s, when crime was rampant here was close to impossible.

good luck...
you know all those hoops were only for you with Zodiac on your application what did you expect
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:23 AM   #8770
bostonsr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo66
I think you're confusing two issues. It's not the police who are restricting your right to carry a weapon, it's your politicians. The police only do what they're told.

I have no problem with citizens carrying weapons. I think an armed population is a good thing.

"the only reason you took action is because you were armed" Yes, but I have also disarmed people without resorting to weapons. But I did it because I was trained and paid to do it. To be honest, being retired and a civilian just like you, I'd probably not get involved at this point unless it had to do with myself or my family.

Again, you seem so deeply disturbed by this that an Article 78 might do you some good. ;>) But with your avowed dislike of everything NYC, you probably won't be here long enough for the initial permit process to take place. Do they just hand out permits in your hometown?

You might like Vermont, they don't issue permits because no permit is required to carry.
"Move" is not a counter-argument to "My Federal Constitutional rights, as incorporated against the states, are being denied." it does nothing to resolve the fact of the government's disregard of the bill of rights.

yes, i mention the NYPD because they are the primary arbiter.



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Old 11-18-2010, 10:24 AM   #8771
bostonsr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac
Aren't you a resident of DC?

Unless you have a NYS driver's license APT lease, everything in your name, NY resident (not student), can prove you have a life threatening job daily, carry over $10,000 cash/gold/diamonds on your person for a living, or are an ex FBI/Police member - you can forget getting a NYC carry license.

From 88 to 92 I had a NYS handgun permit, target only mind you (but that's why they had 24hr ranges... ). By law I technically wasn't allowed in NYC limits.

It took 6 months, and around a grand to apply, also took about a hundred hoops jumped, notarized letters from past teachers, neighbors, friends on the force, etc etc etc.... The process back in the 80s, when crime was rampant here was close to impossible.


good luck...
not a DC resident.

i AM a US Citizen.

abe
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:25 AM   #8772
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i'll unknowledgeably chime in here. as we all know, nys is a 'may issue' state. i've done a few county searches surrounding nyc (putnam, dutchess, suffolk, nassau, and orange) to see what the various requirements are. they all list nys resident, county resident for six months, no legal issues (arrests/convictions), no mental health issues, some require training. all reasonable requirements. i've spent maybe 10 minutes looking this up, the requirements and applications were easily googled.

recurring theme: full unrestricted carry permits (when referenced on the application) require 'probable cause' which is acceptable to the issuing entity. 'just because i want to' or 'it's my second amendment right' is not probable cause. living in a high-crime area is not considered probable cause. in fact, no one defines what constitutes 'probable cause' but one county did say they'd accept sheriff department reports/investigations to help define probable cause (perhaps your the target of a local mob?).

premise permits (residental/business) seems slightly easier to obtain in some of the counties; i.e. if you read the applications they don't word it up with phrases like 'probable cause'. i did not get the sense that stating "i want to buy a pistol for the defense of my home" would fly very well. i also have not tried this as i live in new york city and based on what i've heard, seen discussed, and generally how this city works in regards to weapons (did you know if the officer can 'flick' a knife open with centrifugal force, its a gravity weapon? i've owned several pocket knives with blades less than 4" that could be opened with a flick of the wrist) i would not even bother wasting my time. not to mention i don't really need a gun for anything other than, oh look, i own a gun.

target/hunting permits also seemed simply worded but with the usual restrictions that the permit only covers you while in a recognized target shooting type location or on legal hunting territory with proper hunting permits. again pretty common sense stuff. if you travel thourgh nyc with your weapon, you must keep it unloaded and locked and continue non-stop through nyc to your destination.

i won't discuss business or security officer/guard permits as this is irrelevant to me and i don't fall under this category. if you can reasonably justify a weapon as part of the toolset required to do your job i would think your employer would have ironed on the kinks in obtaining a weapon for you to do your job. i wonder how many concealed weapons there are in the diamond district.

its a well known fact that nyc is harsh with its residents freedoms concerning weapons (and based on the chatter here, motorcycles). its only gotten worse with time and unless the heller case finally concludes that the second amendment also does apply to the states; i estimate your chances as an average citizen in nyc getting a pistol permit is slim to none.

i'm sure there are exceptions to this. some brothers uncles sisters cousins dog third removed from the pd commissioner was given special dispensation and can carry.

again, i've never made the attempt nor do i have any plans too. i have better things to do with my time and money. like farkle my motorcycle and ride it. until nyc takes that ability away from me as well.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:44 PM   #8773
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the 2A has been incorporated with the Mcdonald v. Chicago decision.

abe
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:55 PM   #8774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88
My 2006 KTM 640 Adventure was stolen between 12am and 10am this morning. I live in Long Island City and I am fuming over this. The bike was outside without a cover on right next to my Avalon Riverview building. They are pulling security camera tapes now.

If you see or hear anything let me know!
3 4 7 6 2 4 1 6 2 7

This is what it looks like. Its Orange for crying out loud so it should be easy to spot!
total suckage dude. I always loved your bike (but I didn't steal it). Maybe you should get that cop to find the thieves and umm, you know.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #8775
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Originally Posted by ini88
I had a field day trying to report my stolen KTM. The police had no idea what a KTM was, and they were convinced it was an acronym for the real name like BMW. so I said yeah obviously it has to be an acronym but everyone knows them and calls them KTM. ok... they still don't believe me so they wikipedia KTM and put it down as a KTM - Kraftfahrzeuge Trunkenpolz Mattighofen. FML
I didn't even want to get into the model.
I'm sorry but thats just too funny. Hopefully they don't call you to say they found your weiner shnitzel or dachthund.
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