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Old 11-24-2010, 04:34 PM   #8836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe
Happy We Fucked the Indigenous People, So Now We will Celebrate it With and Orgy of Food Day

I'm reading this right now, it's far more complex than that, far more.

Really great read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_N...efore_Columbus

1491 by Charles Mann
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:46 PM   #8837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe
Happy We Fucked the Indigenous People, So Now We will Celebrate it With and Orgy of Food Day

PS - What do you mean "we"? Are you guilty by ancestry removed 400 to 600 plus years, connected not by blood but by mere nationality/region?

European disease and common illnesses killed far more native peoples than any wars, probably responsible for 90% of their decimation.

By the time there even was a "United States", the great American primal civilizations were long gone, dead. The tribes were mixed, warring with each other, and mostly nomadic fragments.

Another good read is this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_My...t_Wounded_Knee
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:01 PM   #8838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe
Happy We Fucked the Indigenous People, So Now We will Celebrate it With and Orgy of Food Day
With acknowledgment of subsequent posts I will mention that this is almost as delightful a celebration as Columbus Day.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:08 PM   #8839
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My folks didn't arrive on the Mayflower. Hell, they didn't arrive until after the start of the last century, and never left the east coast, so I think I'm safe in saying we killed no indigenous people.

So happy F'n Thanksgiving all you FF!
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:33 PM   #8840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac
I'm reading this right now, it's far more complex than that, far more.

Really great read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_N...efore_Columbus

1491 by Charles Mann
Yes I simplified it a bunch. I heard Charles Mann being interviewed about this once, sounds interesting. I will add it to my reading list.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:37 PM   #8841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac
PS - What do you mean "we"? Are you guilty by ancestry removed 400 to 600 plus years, connected not by blood but by mere nationality/region?

European disease and common illnesses killed far more native peoples than any wars, probably responsible for 90% of their decimation.

By the time there even was a "United States", the great American primal civilizations were long gone, dead. The tribes were mixed, warring with each other, and mostly nomadic fragments.

Another good read is this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_My...t_Wounded_Knee
We as in the people who celebrate this day as the we. Yes disease caused a lot of the deaths, as well as other illnesses that were brought on by the change of diet, land uses, etc.
As far as the second read it occurred long after the issues of the first settlers.
My comment was meant semi-light hearted, but it did have some serious undertones in it. Maybe this post will bring about as much discussion as the guns thread.
For those who have it enjoy the day off or the holiday pay tomorrow if you get any.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:15 PM   #8842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe
We as in the people who celebrate this day as the we. Yes disease caused a lot of the deaths, as well as other illnesses that were brought on by the change of diet, land uses, etc.
As far as the second read it occurred long after the issues of the first settlers.
My comment was meant semi-light hearted, but it did have some serious undertones in it. Maybe this post will bring about as much discussion as the guns thread.
For those who have it enjoy the day off or the holiday pay tomorrow if you get any.

I know, I know, my response has no malice - but gave me a tweak since I've been reading about the subject of the first thanksgiving lately.

But clarify the change of diet thing> not following that at all (?) - for the most part, Europeans adopted the Native diet, not the other way around. The earliest settlers only survived once they adopted Indian foods/grains and growth methods. European ones simply didn't work in New England.

It's simple fact, that well over 3/4 of all the primal people exposed to Spanish/English and other European diseases died from exposure to germs and viruses that their systems had no way of fighting off, no natural resistance to. By the time of the first Thanksgiving, the primal American (south/north and central) civilizations were already dust, dying, and weak. What was left were some strong, some weak tribes. And by the time of the actual Wars of the West/Indian wars - it was like chasing a dying prehistoric animal.

In the 1491 book , the beginning segment shows just how delicate and weak the first settlers were, and how they were essentially surrounded by giant groups of well established cultures, that could and sometimes did wipe them off the map.

And once it gets to the Incas, it's clear for it's era, it was the largest/most expansive, technologically advanced culture on the planet, far outdoing the Chinese, the Middle East, and of course Europe.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:38 PM   #8843
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Originally Posted by Zodiac
But clarify the change of diet thing> not following that at all (?) - for the most part, Europeans adopted the Native diet, not the other way around. The earliest settlers only survived once they adopted Indian foods/grains and growth methods. European ones simply didn't work in New England.

It's simple fact, that well over 3/4 of all the primal people exposed to Spanish/English and other European diseases died from exposure to germs and viruses that their systems had no way of fighting off, no natural resistance to. By the time of the first Thanksgiving, the primal American (south/north and central) civilizations were already dust, dying, and weak. What was left were some strong, some weak tribes. And by the time of the actual Wars of the West/Indian wars - it was like chasing a dying prehistoric animal
I will admit to knowing only a small amount of the dietary changes, and not sure of the time line. But Europeans brought over wheat, sheep and cows which did not exist before in the Native American diet. Later tribes lost buffalo as a food source, and had to adapt their way of life to compensate for that. Oh and withing diet I meant but did not mention alcohol, which is still a problem today.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:02 PM   #8844
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I will admit to knowing only a small amount of the dietary changes, and not sure of the time line. But Europeans brought over wheat, sheep and cows which did not exist before in the Native American diet. Later tribes lost buffalo as a food source, and had to adapt their way of life to compensate for that. Oh and withing diet I meant but did not mention alcohol, which is still a problem today.

Yes, and wheat was all but impossible to grow as a primary grain for the first settlers, so they switched to corn/maize and that became the mainstay. It was a much faster, more durable, and larger crop for the work put into growing it. It alone pretty much saved many European settlements from starvation.

But you're not saying cows and sheep decimated the Indians are you? They ate all types of animal/game meats well before the settlers, and the buffalo weren't decimated until much, much later after the first settlers.... So by the time they lost that as a food source they had already been pushed well off the plains and into the western territories/reservations (not today's reservations but much larger treaty safe ones).

The native Americans were fermenting beverages (and using naturally found drugs like peyote) well before the settlers too.

Now if you were to say bring up small pox blankets....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...f_the_Americas
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:14 AM   #8845
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So we blame the Indians for all the problems with corn syrup? ;>)
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:05 AM   #8846
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Hi All,
Ryders Alley has at last opened the doors for a long needed second location on West 55th st between 9th and 10th ave in Manhattan.
All the same amenities as the downtown location are available!

that being said, I recently bought a crf450r from martinnyc! good guy, solid deal...thank you!
That bike is WAAAAAY more than I can handle as a noob.
We did the hammer run (no HERO sections, too green for that yet). it was awesome!
Went to Chester, NY last sunday for some closed track riding...I realized, motocross riding is TOOO demanding for me. In the dirt i prefer adventure riding....its great variety and amazing fun!

I want to try it in the snow...anybody up for a day ride this sunday? hit me up off list...
thanks!
Demian

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Old 11-25-2010, 03:38 PM   #8847
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hey Demian, congrats on the new place!

abe
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:02 AM   #8848
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What the hell's going on?

Five days and no one has anything to bitch about? ;>)
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:04 AM   #8849
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Originally Posted by Speedo66
What the hell's going on?

Five days and no one has anything to bitch about? ;>)

We've all been busy trying to get carry permits.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:09 AM   #8850
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We've all been busy trying to get carry permits.
LOL
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