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Old 04-07-2010, 09:46 PM   #31
wrk2surf
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=24
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:42 PM   #32
winegrower
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Location: Oklahoma
Oddometer: 48
Bluhduh No clutch

Left Oklahoma with normal function and woke up in Waterton Springs Camp ground north of Glacier with no clutch. Got going downhill and slipped it into gear after starting engine in neutral and limped to Pincher Creek, AB where the local Yamaha mechanic said "none of my KTM buddies ever ride out of here without an extra clutch rebuild kit". He slipped an o-ring in behind one of the seals and bled the system. Clutch returned
After an overnite back to Great Falls, Montana, where Steve and Jeanie who own the KTM dealership met me at 9:30pm to sell me a rebuild kit, I returned to Pincher and took off for Alaska only to be plagued again by the clutch going out about 100K above Jasper. Put the kit in the clutch master cylinder, bled it and took off again but by the time I reached Whitehorse, YT it was gone again.
The recurring theme here is bleed the system and it works, partially bleed it and it works for awhile. In Whitehorse it was well bled and the clutch has held until reaching the top of Tehneta Pass about 140 miles N. of Anchorage where the bike lost its electrics and required towing to Anchorage.
Thanks to all who have contributed the good info in the forum. I'm troubleshooting both the clutch and electrics while warm and dry here in the city before heading back out on the trail home.
At this point I don't know what to tell people who want to wander off into the hinderlands of N. America on a KTM without extensive mechanical support and knowledge. Perhaps ride a BMW. The princess, as my buddy calls the 640A, is a great ride but is disappointing for reliability.
Read all you can and absorb the knowledge before venturing out and keep critical parts and tools with you.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:37 PM   #33
wrk2surf
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is the wall worn from the o-ring on the piston??..
are you leaking from the lever plunger?? if those two are good and you bleed it should last at least 2 yrs of hard riding... trust me..
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:46 PM   #34
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winegrower
At this point I don't know what to tell people who want to wander off into the hinderlands of N. America on a KTM without extensive mechanical support and knowledge. Perhaps ride a BMW. The princess, as my buddy calls the 640A, is a great ride but is disappointing for reliability.
Read all you can and absorb the knowledge before venturing out and keep critical parts and tools with you.
I think having mechanical knowledge and carrying common wear parts is a good idea with whatever brand of bike you take to the wilds.... I've ridden with groups that have many flavours of bikes and my 640 has had few issues when compared to the other brands on the ride... The secret is having a pre-big trip checklist that has you going over everything...

This thread relates to a common electrical problem:http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169958
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:36 PM   #35
Tseta
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An old thread, once again...

I seem to be losing about a reservoir's full of clutch fluid (rendering the clutch slowly inoperable) once per about 7000 km's. It is obviously not a huge problem, as it does not occur very often, but still an inconvenience at the least. When the clutch goes out at the middle of a swamp or other "soft" place, it really asks for some creativity to get the bike back onto hard ground again under its own power.

Also, last winter, when I changed the clutch fluids and the slave cylinder o-ring, I encountered the problem described in this thread. For the life of me, I cannot find any other leaks in the system, and even this "weeping" from the master cylinder cover ceased after a while. Might very well be that I overfilled the reservoir in the first place. Once this excess was bled out naturally, the leaks stopped (?).

For now, I've decided to always carry a bottle of Magura Blood with me on the bike, but I am interested in hearing if anyone else has had these same troubles, and especially if anyone has found the final solution for these tribulations.

Cheers,

Tseta
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:12 AM   #36
PMAX
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Clutch slave clinder O ring size

Fellow ADV riders with 640 ADV bikes.
The O ring size is as follows
JIS size in S Series of O rings Part # S 25 ID 24.0 mm cross section 2mm of nitrile rubber.

Clean the area up nicely before you attack the following.
Don't break the chain, remove the drive sprocket & sit it just off the drive spline to give you the room to remove the slave cylinder casting.
Once the 3 M6 allen head screws are removed wiggle the casting out from the cables & flexible oil lines.
The piston can be removed from the casting with pliers or by blowing out with comressed air.
Inspect cylinder bore for wear, mine after 40,000km had none & is in poifect condition.
If worn it'll be best to replace the casting, sorry.
Remove old O ring, clean up piston, renew O ring & place back into cylinder with spring & a little mineral oil.
Clean up engine casing, gasket & replace.

Bleed the system by filling the slave cylinder with oil, replacing the banjo with annealed copper washers. Next bleed from the bottom by forcing the oil into the bleed nipple & up to the master cylinder.

KTM are selling little plastic bottles of oil these days. Use the bottle with a 25mm piece of clear 5mm pvc tube over the nipple & onto the tapered nozzle of the bottle & squeeze the bottle with the nipple open.
Once you've got some fluid coming out into the master cylinder, top up the reservoir, leave it a while, have a beer, come back, lean the bike over to the right to get the flex line pointing up, lightly tweak the clutch lever & this will allow any air to pop out in to the master cylinder & that should be it.

If you've used brake fluid in the system more than likely you'll have to renew the master cylinder seals at KTM cost otherwise just replacing the slave piston O ring should do the trick.

Cheers

Brochureman.

PMAX screwed with this post 11-06-2012 at 08:13 PM Reason: Slightly incorrect O ring dimension, from 24.5 down to 24.0mm
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:13 PM   #37
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMAX View Post
...

Clean the area up nicely before you attack the following.
Don't break the chain, remove the drive sprocket & sit it just off the drive spline to give you the room to remove the slave cylinder casting.
Once the 3 M6 allen head screws are removed wiggle the casting out from the cables & flexible oil lines.
...
I'm stuck here: my flexible oil lines and such are too tight. I can't get the slave cylinder casing out from beneath them.

Any thoughts? Maybe the line and such shouldn't be this tight, but I"m thinking I'll have to lay the bike on its port-side and take off the oil filter cover so I can proceed with the slave piston o-ring replacement. Fresh oil change... I don't want to loose too much of it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:41 PM   #38
gunnerbuck
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Originally Posted by meat popsicle View Post
I'm stuck here: my flexible oil lines and such are too tight. I can't get the slave cylinder casing out from beneath them.

Any thoughts? Maybe the line and such shouldn't be this tight, but I"m thinking I'll have to lay the bike on its port-side and take off the oil filter cover so I can proceed with the slave piston o-ring replacement. Fresh oil change... I don't want to loose too much of it.
Hi Meat, your probably OK to just remove the cover and have minimal oil loss... What is in the filter chamber will leak out but the rest should be held at bay by the oil pump... If your oil line banjo bolts are frozen, try using a little heat on the cover around where the banjo threads into it...
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #39
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Hi Meat, your probably OK to just remove the cover and have minimal oil loss... What is in the filter chamber will leak out but the rest should be held at bay by the oil pump... If your oil line banjo bolts are frozen, try using a little heat on the cover around where the banjo threads into it...
Thanks gunner,

I don't mind letting the bike take a rest so I laid her over; still lost some oil. Replaced the o-ring, and bled the system according to Oberon's method (worked very well). Seems to be good.

Wondering how much trust I should put on the repair; I am off to Death Valley for a week soon...
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:30 PM   #40
gunnerbuck
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With a new O-ring in it your slave should be good for a while... Have you also rebuilt the master anytime recently? If not I would recommend you do or at least carry the parts with you on the ride as they are easy to change in the field in case the lever gets spongy...
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #41
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
With a new O-ring in it your slave should be good for a while... Have you also rebuilt the master anytime recently? If not I would recommend you do or at least carry the parts with you on the ride as they are easy to change in the field in case the lever gets spongy...
Thanks for the tip - master cylinder is original too (slave o-ring looked and felt ok... but it had to be bad because clutch fluid was disappearing without an apparent external leak) so I need to get a few spares before next week's Wednesday departure.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #42
RedDread
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Heat warning low pressure clutch correlation?

Looks like over the last few years at least 3 of us have had the same clutch issue. I suspect mine was spurred on by getting too hot. Have you guys taken any drastic cooling measures with your bikes like higher volume coolant systems, second fan kit or modified coolant?
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:34 PM   #43
meat popsicle
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Originally Posted by RedDread View Post
Looks like over the last few years at least 3 of us have had the same clutch issue. I suspect mine was spurred on by getting too hot. Have you guys taken any drastic cooling measures with your bikes like higher volume coolant systems, second fan kit or modified coolant?
I've been told the KTM clutch slave is crud, and some highly recommend one of the aftermarket parts (I think there are two mfgs who make them). The cited issue was that the piston doesn't stay perpendicular to the bore; poor design. Maybe your thought is good too - can be a cluster-F of problems.

I have the 640A so its got oil in frame. I have not seen many who have gone aftermarket radiators. Some have done alt coolants (WaterWetter etc.) but remember that if you up the coolant's specs you have to up the radiator's specs or the coolant will simply overheat easier. The coolant system is balanced by the engineers, which I learned the hard way.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #44
RedDread
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle View Post
I've been told the KTM clutch slave is crud, and some highly recommend one of the aftermarket parts (I think there are two mfgs who make them). The cited issue was that the piston doesn't stay perpendicular to the bore; poor design. Maybe your thought is good too - can be a cluster-F of problems.

I have the 640A so its got oil in frame. I have not seen many who have gone aftermarket radiators. Some have done alt coolants (WaterWetter etc.) but remember that if you up the coolant's specs you have to up the radiator's specs or the coolant will simply overheat easier. The coolant system is balanced by the engineers, which I learned the hard way.
So is this to say you don't recommend the second fan? Seems that this may be an effective way to increase the efficiency without destabilizing run balancing system. Your advice in the past has been solid, so I'd really like to clarify if you think adding the second fan kit is a bad idea, or that changing the radiator and coolant specifications would create more issues.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:20 PM   #45
meat popsicle
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Originally Posted by RedDread View Post
So is this to say you don't recommend the second fan? Seems that this may be an effective way to increase the efficiency without destabilizing run balancing system. Your advice in the past has been solid, so I'd really like to clarify if you think adding the second fan kit is a bad idea, or that changing the radiator and coolant specifications would create more issues.
Sorry, the second fan will not cause a problem, because it just helps the radiators shed heat when you are not going fast enough. That is at the end of the system. But changing one of the intervening steps such as a higher efficiency coolant without improving the radiators ability to shed heat (even at speed) will destabilize the system. My bike's engine may be running cooler because of Water Wetter, but the coolant runs hotter or overheats easier because the stock radiators can't shed the heat fast enough. Maybe a second fan could improve things enough; maybe not.
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