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Old 11-11-2011, 10:51 AM   #56656
vintagespeed
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
...If one were to do so, and one were to assume that the stock, FP and KTM needles to be close-ish, then I expect one would find the DJ needle to be lean during lower rpm WOT operation.....
which would cause that off-idle bog that people often complain about?
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:13 AM   #56657
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Originally Posted by PHILinFRANCE View Post
I thought at least one of you would have looked at this
Great read Phil! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:35 AM   #56658
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Originally Posted by PHILinFRANCE View Post
I thought at least one of you would have looked at this
I read that over on the Adventure Bike Rider Forum. Really interesting!!

Guess the DR and KLR's are pretty rare over there?
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:53 AM   #56659
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Originally Posted by c2c4c View Post
It will never be an FJR or a Goldwing. But they will never be DRs
Very true...that's why I have an FJR also!

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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
The CDI stops the party at 7750 RPM
Ok....so I've always wondered what the RPMs were when I hit that
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:04 PM   #56660
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Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
There have been many photos of radical slide bore wear, needle, and emulsion tube wear from the cocked needle.
I would say "with" rather than "from". It is important to note that the majority of emulsion tube, needle, and slide needle bore wear comes from slide guide wear, as the slide becomes constrained by the jet needle in the emulsion tube rather than by the slide guide.
Quote:
My question though is: wouldn't the flat side of the e-clip (if positioned along side the shelf) prevent rotation of the needle?
In instances where the clip was tight, such as is likely with stainless steel or titanium needles, it probably would. However, aluminum needles often exhibit worn clip grooves, causing the clip to end up loose. All of that notwithstanding, I should have mentioned orbiting as well, and a tight clip next to the shelf will not prevent that. Another problem is that if the needle sits with the clip next to the shelf, the spring seat cannot bear on the clip, meaning that up and down rattle will be added into the mix.

In any case, the causes of emulsion tube, jet needle and slide needle bore wear in order of significance are:

1) slide guide wear
2) increased slide flutter due to reduced slide damping due to increased slide lift hole area (which also contributes to item 1
3) needle orbiting
4) needle rattling (horizontal)
5) needle rotation

The purpose of the spacer sitting on the shelf is to preload the needle in the downstream direction in order to reduce 3, 4, and perhaps 5.

Regards,

Derek

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Old 11-11-2011, 12:09 PM   #56661
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Originally Posted by Storz View Post
How is the DR650 for long highway slogs? I am down to choosing between just a couple bikes and the DR650 is at the top of my list for all the reasons you guys know about, the thing is for me to get anywhere interesting on it I've got at least 2-3 hours on pavement and am just wondering if it's going to vibrate me to death. I had a DRZ400sm that I put quite a few road miles on and sometimes my hands would fall asleep lol.
You already got some great answers but since I have not checked into this thread for quite awhile, and I have also had a DRZ400s (not an SM), I'll just add that the DR650 will feel like you are riding a cruiser. Well ok it's not that smooth....LOL. But it really feels a lot better on the open road than the DRZ does and is still light enough to have fun in the twisties

Jon...
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:29 PM   #56662
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Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
which would cause that off-idle bog that people often complain about?
No, it's been well documented that the off idle bog is caused by a rich condition.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:11 PM   #56663
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I would say "with" rather than "from". It is important to note that the majority of emulsion tube, needle, and slide needle bore wear comes from slide guide wear, as the slide become constrained by the jet needle in the emulsion tube rather than by the slide guide.
I appreciate your thoughts. It's always an interesting and informative perspective.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:25 PM   #56664
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Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I appreciate your thoughts. It's always an interesting and informative perspective.
Thank you, sir!

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:49 PM   #56665
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Awesome! A couple of things to add:

Factory Pro uses ever so sightly different needles in their DR and LC4 kits. The DR needle has a .004" larger tip diameter than the KTM one does. By your measurements I'll assume the needle FP in the picture is from a DR kit.
Pic is from mx_rob's needle comparison thread on TT.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...=467615&page=4
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:15 PM   #56666
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Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
Great read Phil! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers Jon
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:19 PM   #56667
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Originally Posted by greygeezer View Post
I read that over on the Adventure Bike Rider Forum. Really interesting!!

Guess the DR and KLR's are pretty rare over there?
Cheers mate
Good bunch the ABR guys , DRs are really popular here in France but don't see to many KLRs about!
Phil
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:04 PM   #56668
motolab
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Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Pic is from mx_rob's needle comparison thread on TT.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...=467615&page=4
Aha! Thanks.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:44 PM   #56669
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RumLover, NordieBoy, & MotoLab

What main jet are you running with the KTM needle, at approximately what elevation?
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:56 PM   #56670
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Originally Posted by poppawheelie View Post
What main jet are you running with the KTM needle, at approximately what elevation?
I am not running a KTM needle. Mine is actually a custom job that is similar but by no means identical. Your main jet can only be determined after some trial and error and in the case of the DR is going to be affected a lot by what kind of airbox opening you have -- probably more then the altitude. My airbox is opened up about two or three times the size of the snorkel hole size and I run a mikuni 142.5 at 4200' and up.

Edit: those with fully opened up airboxs seem to fall somewhere between a 145 and 150 mikuni main (Dynojet #s are different for the same size).

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