ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #65731
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 5,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
I wonder if maybe a thrust washer fell out while you had the cover off. Mine makes a (normal) scraping noise from the starter clutch when I turn the engine over backwards. Shoot the same video for us turning the engine in the direction it operates...CCW.

Tech23

Why engine sounds 'wrong' when rotated backwards a few degrees
mx_rob posted this on TT about the motor sounding 'wrong' when rotated backwards a few degrees to get right on TDC.

"Why you think you are screwed when that happens is the starter sprague clutch (bearing) is engaged as soon as you try to rotate the engine backwards. It takes a bit of effort to roll it backwards since you are having to spin the starter motor through all of the gearing reduction... and since you are turning the crank the reduction is backwards so the starter motor has to spin a lot of turns for a small amount of crank movement."

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...95&postcount=6
__________________
2004 DR650: 62,400 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #65732
MikeyP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
Shoot the same video for us turning the engine in the direction it operates...CCW.

Tech23

Ah, that was my issue, turning the motor in the wrong direction

I've worked on my own cars for the past couple decades but this is my first motorcycle. Lots to learn apparently! Thanks for the answers and the education Tech23 and ER70S-2. Much appreciated.
MikeyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:16 PM   #65733
MikeyP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 21
Also, the reason I was worried about the noise is that I had to take the rotor off so the surgery went deeper than I was planning. Last week as I was pulling off the generator cover off to replace the gasket, one of the washers from the starter torque limiter popped off, made it's way around the rotor, and down in to the bottom of the motor through an oil return slot ~1/2" wide. Heartbreaking. I ordered the special tool from Procycle to remove the flywheel bolt. Just getting it back together now. Can't wait to fire it up for the first time, which hopefully happens tomorrow.
MikeyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:24 PM   #65734
Olas
the darkness
 
Olas's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Englewood, CO
Oddometer: 3,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
Yes, I am quoting myself. I took my DR for a spin, and I can ride at 7mph in first gear with no clutch pretty smoothly. Slower than that, and it gets kind of lurching.
The stock carb on the DR sucks off road. Ride any other bike with a pumper carb and you will see why.

Trying to maneuver the DR in anything that is semi-technical or steep requires a lot of clutch work to keep the BST carb in its happy zone. It just cannot perform like a pumper does in those low speed situations..you can try and patch things but it will always act like a CV carb because, well, it is one. CV carbs are better suited for street bikes, and if I planned on keeping my DR on the street I would keep the stock carb.
__________________
Rebuild threads:
'92 XT600, '87 XR250R
Lighten up, Francis.
Olas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #65735
GaThumper
Road Less Traveled
 
GaThumper's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Thumpin' in North GA - headin' for the Smokys
Oddometer: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
The pumper carbs (TM/FCR) throttle cable attaches directly to the slide. On a CV carb the cable attaches to a butterfly, the slide lifts when intake velocity increases and doesn't have a shot of injected fuel right behind the opening slide. The AP circuit delivers more torque sooner in the RPM range.

Performance comes from burning more fuel. Carburetors, particularly those with an AP will use a little more fuel. It sounds like your primary concern is fuel economy, not performance. If you are happy with the CV carbs fuel economy why change it?

I'm pretty sure if have never ridden a bike with a pumper carb you have nothing to compare your CV carb too. My 1980 Yamaha XT 500 came from the factory with a pumper carb and it ran better than my 2004 DR 650 with a CV carb. My first impression of my DR 650 was it was a waste of 150cc of additional displacement...until I woke it up with the TM40 pumper carb. Now it feels like a torquey thumper should. The improvement was worth the small (I could care less) loss of fuel economy.

Tech23
I had the same feeling and the same reference point, my old TT500 and TT600. Plus I rode a KTM 450exc (with Keihin pumper) for a while before the first DR650 (and DR350). Something just didn't feel right to me. I followed Jesse's recommendations on my first DR650 and got my BST dialed in pretty well. It was better, and at the time I was happy with it. But I'm really glad I know now what I didn't know then! When I got the '09 DR650 last year I decided not to spend any money on getting the BST sorted out, instead I'd put that money toward a pumper carb. I had pretty much decided to go with an FCR because I had got to know Rob (MxRob) on TT and respected his understanding of the DR650 carb. After reading everything I could find on his FCR conversion I started looking for a doner when an MxRob converted carb came up for sale. After installing it I knew I had found what I was looking for. The first test ride confirmed that it transformed the throttle response to what I was missing from the old TTs and the KTM. After about 1000 miles with the FCR I can't stop recommending it and believe it was the single best motor mod I could have done. Yes, I'd do the suspension before the carb if I had to choose, and I HAD to have a new seat, but the pumper carb, FOR ME, makes the DR run the way it should have run from the get go.

Let me also say there's not a right or wrong on running box stock, modding the BST, or transplanting a pumper. If you're happy with the stock config, just ride! and if you get some of your kicks by wrenching and tuning, have at it!

I enjoy wrenching and modding, and tricking my bikes out for ME.

Warning: If you're happy with your stock DR650, I wouldn't recommend riding your buddy's bike with a pumper! My riding buddy thought I was nuts, untill he rode mine. Now he's a believer too. My MxRob tuned FCR is smooth from idle to any RPM and I will NOT have another off road bike with a CV carb. I think that's one thing I didn't like about any of the modern dual sports I bought looking for the ONE.

Now I've got to get my TM33 jetted and installed on my DR350!

My .02 and YMMV.
__________________
Dirtly: 2009 Suzuki DR650SE Road Sofa: 2001 Yamaha (ad)Venture 1300
Dirtlier: 1999 Suzuki DR350SE Old Sport: 1979 Suzuki GS1000E

1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400 (for sale) 1987 Yamaha TT600 (for sale)
GaThumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:35 PM   #65736
Olas
the darkness
 
Olas's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Englewood, CO
Oddometer: 3,949
...and by the way.. The TM40 is not the only pumper carb that can be adapted to the DR. I am about to finish adapting a FCR 39 (thanks to mxrob's excellent write up) and total cost will be around $200.
__________________
Rebuild threads:
'92 XT600, '87 XR250R
Lighten up, Francis.
Olas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:41 PM   #65737
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 5,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
This thread has been exceedingly helpful in my project so far, which has turned in to a bit more than I anticipated.
Which is more than anticipated, the DR project or the reading this thread project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
I was going to wait until I reached the end of this thread before I said hello (I'm on page ~730 right now; seriously) but I don't think I can't wait that long before a test fire :)
Tip: take notes. You'll never remember where you saw what you wanted to remember. I have a 38 page word.doc that I didn't start until well after I began reading this thread (all of it, too).

You'll want Krusty's DR650 Information Index on your favorites bar, there is already some serious information there. Please keep the chatter and questions here, so the index doesn't become as cluttered as this thread.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=32
Obtw: welcome, and good luck on the fire-up.
__________________
2004 DR650: 62,400 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #65738
MikeyP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Which is more than anticipated, the DR project or the reading this thread project?

Tip: take notes. You'll never remember where you saw what you wanted to remember. I have a 38 page word.doc that I didn't start until well after I began reading this thread (all of it, too).

You'll want Krusty's DR650 Information Index on your favorites bar, there is already some serious information there. Please keep the chatter and questions here, so the index doesn't become as cluttered as this thread.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=32
Obtw: welcome, and good luck on the fire-up.
I have a several page document of copy and paste notes, mostly from here and a little from thumper talk. One of the tasks I've done so far is rebuilding the carb which required a fair bit of note gathering. Thanks for the link to the Krusty index. I think I'm only in the spring of 2008, before that index was created. The future is a great place!
MikeyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 12:01 AM   #65739
johnkol
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Oddometer: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
I did about a 150 miles loop today with 40 miles of dirt (even a little single track) I was actually impresed with the Shinkos so I can't wait to see how a correctly mounted front does.
Don't hold your breath. There is a theoretical advantage in running the front tyre with the chevrons backwards per the directional marking on the sidewall (the tyre will creep in towards the inside of the curve when you're leaned over), but whether you will be able to notice this is debatable.

Having said this, a theoretical advantage is always better than a disadvantage (with the chevrons pointing forwards the tyre will creep towards the outside of the curve), and accidents can hinge on the tiniest details, so by all means, flip the tyre around (and stay away from a shop that cannot even mount a tyre properly).
johnkol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 04:05 AM   #65740
Nullarbor63
Test Pilot
 
Nullarbor63's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Western Australia
Oddometer: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motodeficient View Post
Thanks again for all the discussion and suggestions regard the above post I made...

I have left the rear shock in the raised position, but backed off a bit on the pre-load. I also bumped my tire pressures up to 35 rear and 32 front. This combination of changes seems to have helped quite a bit. I guess it was more of a "twitchy" feeling than a "squirrely" feeling.

Everyone on supermotojunkie says that these tire pressures are way too high. They say I should be running in the mid 20s. But I don't know, I don't think I buy it. They say only heavy sportbikes should be running these pressures. I think they forget that I don't have a 220lb converted CRF450. I have a 350 lb converted DR650, which really isn't a whole lot lighter than sportbikes.

Also, I don't race or even push the bike that hard in corners. Mostly just commuter and burning miles. So I would rather have the bike feel stable under me than have max grip on the edge of chaos.
I have been building 250lb 500cc road rockets since the 80's, and have never run less than 28psi in the front. It feels right because it is Moto. Stick to your guns.
Nullarbor63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 04:11 AM   #65741
Motodeficient
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Maine
Oddometer: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post
High tire pressures do make the DR650 twitchy and even the rear wobbles at higher speed, been there done that. 24/24 psi is about right for riding tight curves with my DR650. I get great tread life and the tires hook up well. Running 30 psi or more would just REDUCE traction. I want the front to hold well, at 30 psi it washes out far too quick. Plus the cupping is horrible. Loaded with gear I'll bump the rear to 28 psi and the front to 25 psi. Both still within OEM pressures. I run a good heavy load with my fat but and all the gear.

Just got back from Robbinsville, NC and loved the curves, its nice to get more wear from the edges of the tires for a change. Makes them last longer.
Yes I ran those pressures with the stock bias ply knobbie tires. But These are Michelin Pilot Power 3 17" sportbike radials that I am running now. You guys are running tubes in your supermoto tires right?

Motodeficient screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 04:19 AM
Motodeficient is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 05:48 AM   #65742
rivercreep
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania (Reading)
Oddometer: 3,243
Gonna throw this out there again....

I can't argue against the rare 3rd gear blow-ups and there's certainly no arguing the loose NSU screws that need to be loc-tite in place but...I've noticed something on this thread that I think is creating a "DR650 weakness" where there isn't one. (2 actually).

I always took the time to adjust my chain by running it through it's full range of motion and making sure there were no tight spots. I did this with BOTH chain rollers intact.
Yes! The chain then looked entirely too loose (and certainly had more sag than the DR650 service manual suggests) but, I never had a chain jump and not only was my chain/sprocket life very long lived but, I also NEVER had either of the 2 "DR650 weakness's" rear their ugly little heads either. (in over 100,000 miles accumulated miles with the 3 DR's I've owned)

1. I never had a chain roller break or even bend their mounting bolts.(certainly no ripped out frame mounts)
2. I never had any issues with rear wheel bearings either (or even the countershaft seal leaking or popping loose)

....in all seriousness Guys, Running your chain too tight can be the cause of both problems. (3 if you include countershaft seals)
I honestly think both of those other common weakness's, are being created through improper chain adjustments.

It kills me to think something so obvious can elude soooo many riders.
Might I suggest loosening those chains and letting the stock rollers and rear chain guides do their jobs, instead of blaming Suzuki for a bad design?
I.M.H.O. About all they can be blamed for (for #1 and#2) is bad specs for chain adjustments in their manuals that lead to some of those failures.
F.W.I.W. I'm also NOT a lucky Guy and I weigh over 230lbs. so, I certainly ran all of my DR's suspensions through their full range of motion in use as well. (quite frequently bottomed them out as well)


Dare I say it = some of you don't know how to properly adjust a chain.

Flame away! (I'm NOT going to post any responses to this observation as I feel 100,000 miles of trouble free use is proof enough that I'm correct in what I've concluded)
rivercreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 06:27 AM   #65743
rkjjeep
Studly Adventurer
 
rkjjeep's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Oddometer: 527
Another snorkle post

I tried like hell to get my low mile 2002 DR to run right with the snorkle in place. No matter how rich or lean I went on the pilot or on the light throttle transition I had what felt like a rich dip/bog at light throttle roll on. I was pretty sure it was a rich condition because it was worse downhill than up (the uphill load was better). Anyway I took a minute and pulled the snorkle and the bike was basically transformed. It seems that the snorkle opening is so small that it richens up that small throttle roll on zone enuff to not be able to tune it out - given the nature of this carb.

Probably just stating something you all already know - but save yourself some time and tune the BST without the snorkle to begin with.

Yes, I know there are more gains to be had by opening the airbox more. What worked and made the bike good enuff for me is one turn out on the mixture screw, one shim, and no snorkle.
rkjjeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 06:33 AM   #65744
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 9,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motodeficient View Post
Yes I ran those pressures with the stock bias ply knobbie tires. But These are Michelin Pilot Power 3 17" sportbike radials that I am running now. You guys are running tubes in your supermoto tires right?
Yup. The Powers actually handle like crap when you run them down in the mid 20's. The Michelin rep told me he was constantly getting complaints at the track about how bad the tries were and almost every time it was because they were being run at too low pressure.

Albie screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 06:40 AM
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 06:36 AM   #65745
Bob808
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Oddometer: 46
Does anyone have a complete bearing list from SKF for DR650SE? For the whole engine, since I have it open I might as well do a complete replacement. When I opened the crankcase bearings seemed smooth, but after one week with the crankcase opened they don't feel that smooth anymore. Kind of like they have some sand in them. And seem like all of them do it now. I could get them out and clean them in gasoline real good but I could just change them all if they are not so expensive from SKF. Any link would be perfect. Thanks guys.
Ah, almost forgot, the SKF ones, are they in different fitting standars? I think I can remember a discussion where you had to make sure to get the ones with the tightest tolerance. Is this the case with SKF ones or are they one size perfect fit?
Bob808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014