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Old 06-18-2012, 02:24 AM   #66046
NordieBoy
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Location: Kiwiland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunthechip View Post
I just took this guy for a ride around the block on the back of my DR650. I weigh 135lbs and he weighed 250, so the combined weight was 385lbs. Is it possible that that kind of weight could have caused some damage to the bike? We went for about half a mile, I was super easy on the throttle, and we only got up to to 30mph.

Other questions:
-Before I go for a ride I let the bike idle for 5 - 7 minutes. Is that too much?
-What are some things that can cause damage to the engine? I change the oil every 2000 miles, keep the air filter clean, oil the chain often, and the tires are set to the right pressures. The guy I bought it from said there's not much you can do do ruin a dr650, but I'm just paranoid about keeping my bike in top condition. (this is my first bike, I love it, and I'd like to keep it for as long as possible)
Just don't do jumps 2up like that.
Don't lug it with really low revs, keep them up and smooth.

Enjoy.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:57 AM   #66047
Snowy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.dica View Post
Hey Snowy-

Id PM this but maybe somewhere someone has the same questions...

We both have the larger fork tube showas off of the 98 RM250 (48mm?), and as such I have a couple questions on the topic...

1--My buell headlights could use some proper fork mounted brackets as opposed to my rigged setup ( which works, but I want to clean up my front end). Any chance you know what/ where to find some that fit well?

2-- Since install the forks have performed admirably, and I weigh about 178lbs//85ish kilos. They seem maaybe a wee bit soft....maybe... so im curious if you have swapped the springs and oil, and if so, what worked for you.
My seals are spectacular and everything seems tip top aside from this.... Possibly I could benefit from a fork brace as I frequent speeds of 75mph and above;)

3--- I got the entire front end, meaning the RM hub and brake disk.. Whereas it functions, Id be happy for a bit more stopping power and wondered if you had assembled a better front disk solution and what it might be.

Cheers and thank you!
OK, I used the RM triples as well. They are very similar, but not identical to the DRZ triples. The DRZ axle and front wheel fits the RM forks.

I have used the DRZ wheel from a 2001 model (6 bolt hub with the speedo drive) with the DRZ spacers. I can fit a RMZ 250 wheel up to an 06 year. Same axle size, same drive side spacer, no speedo drive (use the Vapour) and the disc is the same dia but only 4 bolt to the hub.

I don't mind the smaller front disc off road. On road, it's a tad under powered. Use the right pads and it isn't too bad.

I'm thinking of Motard 320mm discs eventually, only because I'm trying to standardise parts and spares across 3 different bikes.

I made a bracket up for the headlight using parts cut from the DR bracket.





i thought I had photos showing the bracket in isolation.....hmmm....anyway I'll do a close up.

Basically the RM triples had mounting holes already drilled and tapped into cast lugs. I used those as they lined up pretty well on the outside of the standard headlight frame. I cut some light angle up and welded the DR headlight frame to it.

I spaced it off the mudguard so I could fit one of those mudguard bags with a spare tube in it without affecting the headlight beam.

I stuffed up the position of the blinkers, so instead of pulling it all apart and starting again i just made a temporary spacer for the lower fork leg brake line clamp. I had a couple of bits of scrap sitting there and when I looked at the problem I though...hmmm....20 mins to redo everything...5 mins to make this....I'm lazy. That's 15 mins of my drinking time.

Next time I pull it all apart I'll fix it.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:18 AM   #66048
Snowy
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and from memory those forks measured 50mm.

I'll confirm.



It ended up like this. Looks pretty standard I thought.

The authorities here are starting to crack down on modifications. You wont get a bike through inspections these days with a non standard exhaust.

So I thought that I should build this looking as standard as possible. To the extent that I was going to gut the muffler, use the internals from another muffler, and TIG it all back together so it looks 100% stock.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I'm in the process of planning a fork swap on my BMW F800. So far I have a set of USD Showas from an 07 RMZ450, and a set of WR426 Ohlins with a set of billet triples from a CR500 - courtesy of a friend. The ABS is an issue, but not an insurmountable one.

I plan on using an aftermarket billet hub, 320mm disc, and a 4 piston Nissin calliper on it because of the extra weight of the BMW. But the axle size and width will be a match to my 2 DRs. So if I do things right, I can end up with around 5 front wheels all set up the same, interchangable. I have about 4 at the moment for the 2 DRs, although one is damaged and one is in the process of having a new rim fitted. I need to start buying hubs and rims and stuff. I have a box full of spokes from about 3 wheels that have been scrapped for one reason or another.

Right after I mouthed off about the shit BMW rims and how I'd never damaged an Excel rim...I buckled and cracked an Excel rim. I replaced it with another wheel with a brand new Excel rim, and then I buckled the crap out of it on the next ride. I had to resort to lacing on an original DR rim, and using that on the bike i don't do any off road on.

I buy wheels from the US wreckers off ebay. It costs me more in postage than some of the wheels cost - postage usually $90 - but the last time I tried a wrecker here wanted $550 for a shit RMZ wheel that had a rim that was a throw away. I can almost build a genuine Suzuki one from dealer purchased parts for that. Seriously.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:16 AM   #66049
NC Rick
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Dr motard questions

I am running the warp 9 wheels on my dr also. I followed the instructions that came with them re the spokes. All is good. It took me three checks on the spokes before they settled down.

We have done motard conversions for customers who use their drs hard and setting up as a motard presents challenges when we want to be demanding. I recommend the lowest profile rear and the highest front. I am running a bt 016 150/60 rear and a power race v 120/70 race tire that was pre shagged by my duc 999 track bike. The dr has borderline trail for the motard conversion and a light touch on the bars is a must. Mushy suspension is going to contribute to the whole chassis rotation issue, making stability a little iffy. I run 26 psi rear and 24 psi front and have dragged my knee and pegs at the same time on the track. The bike works well enough for me. I have posted before that to really achieve good handling for a dr motard, a custom triple clamp is the answer. I have not done it on my bike since I convert it back and forth and can live with the "sensitive" steering in the motard mode.

That taller rear tire profile could well be exacerbating a marginal stability issue. I think that a good suspension setup and the correct tire sizes will give you a bike you can be very pleased with. I have several track days on mine as well as some street miles.

I type poorly. You can call us if you have specific questions I can help with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Motodeficient View Post
So for those of you running 150/70/17 and 120/70/17 on your supermoto, is your rear tire significantly taller than your front tire? If I stand back from my bike and look, it actually almost looks silly how much taller the rear tire is than the front. I have Michelin Pilot Power 3 tires. I don't know if all brands are like this?

I know this is the recommended supermoto tire size by procycle, so maybe its just normal.

I am still trying to track down the squirmy feeling my supermoto has, and wondering if the tall rear tire has something to do with it.


My bike was really stable with the stock tires and wheels, but I have put almost 1000 miles on the supermoto setup so far this year and I just can't talk myself out of the squirmy feeling I am getting, when cornering and even on straightaways above 60MPH. I keep trying to tell myself its just how supermoto's are, but it just feels odd.

One other thing I have been wondering is if my wheels are true. When I got them I had to tighten the spokes a lot, especially the rear wheel. I had to tighten the spokes probably 10 times, and now they are finally staying tight but maybe its not true anymore. Could this cause a squirmy feeling while cornering and at higher speeds?

Some discussion on my problem originally started here, as well as the specs on my bike:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...8#post18833928

Since then I have added a little more air pressure in front and rear tires and backed off on the rear preload.

Right now the top of my forks are flush with the top of the trees. Should I move the forks down a little more so they are flush with the shoulder of the fork caps? Is this an acceptable thing to do? I would only be a few more mm difference so it might now help anyway.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:17 AM   #66050
Rusty Rocket
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I would like to ask about road handling when wheel/tire diameter is changed.

I have a road trip coming up in Sept. I'm NOT a road rider. I have never been on the road more that a few miles (usually less than 5 miles)at a time for dualsport/trailriding connectivity, except once when I did 500 miles in a weekend on my cousin's BMW 1150.

I have at my disposal for this trip several tires of differing diameters. I have an 18" rear wheel in addition to my stock 17". Here's the tire brands and diameters (O.D.)

Front 21" tires

Metzeler Karoo ............................................. 26.75"
Bridgestone Trailwing (stock) ...........................27. 375
Pirelli MT 21................................................ ...27.75

Rear 17" tires

Pirelli MT 21 .................................................. 26.0
Bridgestone Trailwing (stock)........................... 24.25

Rear 18' tires
Bridgestone TW (DRZ 400 take-off).................. 26.125
Metzeler Karoo ..............................................27.0

If I was to choose the largest dia front and the smallest rear, I figure I would have a slower steering bike. conversely, the smallest dia front with the largest rear will make for a quicker steering bike. What experiences can anyone relate as to what the handling will be like with these differences and what would "you" choose for a 1000 mile adventure on the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is very twisty but the speed limit is 45MPH?

I'm not terribly hung up on the tire design but if "you" feel that a set of Trailwings is best, which rear do you feel is better?

edit: Wow, while I was typing NC Rick was kind of addressing this very issue. But that is when a smaller rim is on the front, what about if the 21" is still in place?

I also have .47 fork springs and stock rear spring and Cogent shock mod and RaceTech emulators in the fork.
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2009 DR650
..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers

Rusty Rocket screwed with this post 06-18-2012 at 08:43 AM
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:48 AM   #66051
Rumlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV8 View Post
There is nothing sporty about a DR650,it is the De Soto of the trails.

I had a 56 DeSoto in my youth (rolled it one rainy night). It all makes sense now!

Thanks for the memory.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:52 AM   #66052
Motodeficient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Rick View Post
I am running the warp 9 wheels on my dr also. I followed the instructions that came with them re the spokes. All is good. It took me three checks on the spokes before they settled down.

We have done motard conversions for customers who use their drs hard and setting up as a motard presents challenges when we want to be demanding. I recommend the lowest profile rear and the highest front. I am running a bt 016 150/60 rear and a power race v 120/70 race tire that was pre shagged by my duc 999 track bike. The dr has borderline trail for the motard conversion and a light touch on the bars is a must. Mushy suspension is going to contribute to the whole chassis rotation issue, making stability a little iffy. I run 26 psi rear and 24 psi front and have dragged my knee and pegs at the same time on the track. The bike works well enough for me. I have posted before that to really achieve good handling for a dr motard, a custom triple clamp is the answer. I have not done it on my bike since I convert it back and forth and can live with the "sensitive" steering in the motard mode.

That taller rear tire profile could well be exacerbating a marginal stability issue. I think that a good suspension setup and the correct tire sizes will give you a bike you can be very pleased with. I have several track days on mine as well as some street miles.

I type poorly. You can call us if you have specific questions I can help with.
Thank you for this response...

On Saturday I rode my friends stock DR650 and couldn't believe how stable it is with the 21" wheel, but a lot harder to turn. This lead me to realize my bike is fine. It was 3 months between the last time I road with 21" wheels to spring when I first rode with the 17" wheels, so I had forgotten what the 21" wheel felt like. After riding the stock setup and my supermoto setup back to back on saturday, its amazing how different the 21" and 17" wheels feel. With the 21" its very stable, you feel in complete control, but its also VERY slow to steer. The 17" feels easier to lose control of, but it turns MUCH faster. With the 21" you have to fight to lean it over, with the 17" you have to fight to keep it upright. So its just a tradeoff. I guess this is why a lot of people are going to 19" front wheels, good compromise.

In all honesty I am not a very aggressive rider, I will probably never use the 17" wheels to their full potential, and if I were to do it again I might not do it. But I love the look anyway.

I am thinking about getting at steering stabilizer, I think this might be a good way to keep the quick handling of the 17" wheels but reduce the twitchy feeling.

My tires are almost brand new, but the next rear tire will be a 150/60/17 instead of a 150/70/17.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #66053
notarat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Shield the secondary filter from the now-gaping airbox hole. You shouldn't have to go richer on the needle than the 4th clip down, even with an exhaust and/or at sea level. Re-route the hose if you have to.
I re-routed mine to behind the headlight area and verified there is no kinking of the line.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:43 AM   #66054
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunthechip View Post
I just took this guy for a ride around the block on the back of my DR650. I weigh 135lbs and he weighed 250, so the combined weight was 385lbs. Is it possible that that kind of weight could have caused some damage to the bike? We went for about half a mile, I was super easy on the throttle, and we only got up to to 30mph.
Yer good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunthechip View Post
Other questions:
-Before I go for a ride I let the bike idle for 5 - 7 minutes. Is that too much?
-What are some things that can cause damage to the engine? I change the oil every 2000 miles, keep the air filter clean, oil the chain often, and the tires are set to the right pressures. The guy I bought it from said there's not much you can do do ruin a dr650, but I'm just paranoid about keeping my bike in top condition. (this is my first bike, I love it, and I'd like to keep it for as long as possible)
I don't let any of my vehicles warm up; get on, start bike, wiggle helmet, poke garage door button, ride gently. There are other things needing warm-up: wheel bearings, suspension, transmission and the rider for instance. Regular oil and filter changes = good. Get a magnetic drain plug for long term preventative maintenance and don't freak out when there is a Q-Tip of metal filings on it at each oil change. Do freak out if there is a screw or gear tooth.

Keep up with current posts on this thread first, if you want more info go back 100 pages and read thru current, then back another 100 pages etc.

NordieBoy's pic:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Motodeficient View Post
Thank you for this response...

On Saturday I rode my friends stock DR650 and couldn't believe how stable it is with the 21" wheel, but a lot harder to turn. This lead me to realize my bike is fine...................

........................So its just a tradeoff. I guess this is why a lot of people are going to 19" front wheels, good compromise.
I think you'll get used to the twitchiness, just like we get used to the wiggle on dirt roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
I would like to ask about road handling when wheel/tire diameter is changed.
.....................................
edit: Wow, while I was typing NC Rick was kind of addressing this very issue.
Good info Rusty, glad you left it posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
.................................................
Awesome info and a giant leap for mankind the DR community.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:06 AM   #66055
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 955616846 View Post
You've linked to unbranded Chinese snot for a DR-Z...

An EBC kit for a DR-Z is similar money and for a DR slightly more.

China is notorious for shoving shit out the back door and getting away with it. Why risk it especially on something as critical as brake components? With a US (or western) brand, even if manufactured in China, there is a reasonable guarantee that what you are purchasing is what the manufacturer claims. Consumer protections and product liability makes certain of that.
i linked to "unbranded snot" for an rm-series, which is what i would need, and what anyone else w/rm front forks on their dr's would need. (yes, it indicates it will also fit a dr-z.)

regarding "shoving shit out the back door and getting away with it", i understand your feelings. but i believe it is more because of "western" companies that rebrand the stuff and mark it up, then the folks that sell direct. ymmv. are you into audio, by any chance? that's another one of my weaknesses. i bought a korsun integrated amp; it retailed for ~$250-$300. would i have been better off if i bought the red rose music iteration for $2500? this american company, red rose music, owned by mark levinson, one of the pre-eminent names in high end audio, sold the exact same amp as the the one i have, for almost 10 times the price, and the only difference between the two is the label silkscreened on the front! my amp says "korsun", the other amp says "red rose music". red rose music has done the same thing w/the chinese aurum cantus speaker brand.

find me another rotor spec'd at 5mm thick, instead of 4.0mm or 4.5mm, that will work w/the stock caliper, and i will have a look. the item i posted was the only 5mm thick 320mm diameter rotor i was able to find, to fit an rm-series suzuki, regardless of what label was stamped on it. i checked the uk-made ebc rotors; they're 4mm thick...

don't like chinese "shit"? cut out all chinese products from your life, and see how long you can surwive. let me know how it works out for ya. but, remember - you won't be able to call me, or text me, or send me an email. won't even be able to send me a regular letter.

doug s.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:32 AM   #66056
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
I find droning on the highway boring if it is a multilane commuter conduit. So, I bought a cheap Harbor Freight folding trailer with a 4'x8' deck (used) for a couple hundred and I load the bikes on it and cruise comfortably in the car out to the fun areas
The roads to the trails are actually single-lane, but they are straight as an arrow, so they are not only boring, but intimidating too, because in the back of my mind I always have this fear of an idiot from the opposite direction crossing over into my lane. In that respect, it's better to take the interstate, but if that's the best solution for a DS bike...

I had been doing the trailer thing for more than 10 years, and it got old. That's one of the reasons I got the DR, I thought that riding to the trails would be more exciting than driving my dirt bike there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
I believe you said you have Shinko 705's so play with the air pressure and see if it helps. You didn't mention if the suspension is stock or upgraded but there are some easy and inexpensive improvements that can help a lot, without going to the extremes. Just about any work will make the suspension better than it is stock.
Yes, brand new 705s, and yes, one of my mistakes was that I didn't air them down for the off-road portion. I will certainly do that next time to see how they behave in optimal conditions.

Suspension is another headache: it is stock, but because of my light weight (130lbs), I cannot achieve adequate sag in the forks even though I have installed the minimum length of preload spacers. Yet it was the rear shock (with proper sag) that was giving me the most trouble, with the wheel unable to follow the bumps, and spending most of its time in the air. I had thought of installing emulators in the forks, but it now appears that the shock is my primary concern -- and shock work is not cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
If you can, beg to ride other big bore ds bikes and see what you think after you have more experience riding the various bikes.
I consider them all far too heavy. And the recent crop of new "adventure" bikes outweigh the DR by 100 or more pounds. I think the adventure is picking it up when you drop it.
Ha!! I have been saying the exact same thing ever since the first adventure behemoths (the BMWs, capitalising on their Paris-Dakar success) came to the scene almost 30 years ago.

I completely agree -- all the other adventure bikes are just way too heavy. That was one selling point of the DR: it is one of the lightest adventure bikes out there, but still too heavy for actual enjoyment in the dirt.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:59 PM   #66057
Rusty Rocket
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here's an interesting item:

https://kushsprockets.3dcartstores.c...cket_p_67.html

it fits a DR350, so it will also work with a DR650 if you want to run a 520 chain. Probably unnecessary on a stock hub. The real cool thing here is that you can now use a DR350 rear wheel that hasn't got a cush drive. (the off road models)
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..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:07 PM   #66058
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
I had a KTM 450exc and it was GREAT off road, but I hated hitting the highway for a stretch on it.
What was it exactly that made you hate the KTM more than the DR on the slab? I'm not really enjoying the DR on highway rides as it is (too much wind pressure, high sensitivity to cross-winds), so I'm thinking how much worse can a EXC be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
Then I tried a lighter weight dual sport and it was better off road than my DR650, but not fun on the highway. I would trailer it the 2-3 hours to the base camp for a DS ride and it was fine for riding 150-200 mile dual sport rides.
Was this the DR350 in your signature? I'm thinking about the WR250R, but concerned about the small displacement.

Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciate it!
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:12 PM   #66059
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
What was it exactly that made you hate the KTM more than the DR on the slab? I'm not really enjoying the DR on highway rides as it is (too much wind pressure, high sensitivity to cross-winds), so I'm thinking how much worse can a EXC be?


Was this the DR350 in your signature? I'm thinking about the WR250R, but concerned about the small displacement.

Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciate it!
I would rather not ride pavement with my EXC because it vibrates more and has to be revved more to get the MPH you need. (if you have woods gearing, i have 13/52) The rubber mounted handlebars and footrests combined with lower RPM's and much higher torque of the 650 mill(my seat of the pants assesment vs the 400exc)make the DR a much nicer bike on the slab when you have to run more than 5 miles.

I rode a WR250R and liked the handling, but the power was anemic. I was glad when I switched back with the owner to get back on the DR.

The exc isn't bad on the street, it just isn't as good as the DR. The DR isn't bad in the singletrack, it just isn't anywhere as good as the KTM.

If you can only get 1 bike and you like to ride technical singletrack mostly, and will not be riding the street for miles, you'll probably be happier with an EXC.
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2009 DR650
..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers

Rusty Rocket screwed with this post 06-18-2012 at 02:17 PM
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:37 PM   #66060
ghostdncr
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Location: Louisville, KY
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Hey guys, I just picked up an '07 DR last week and thought I'd say hey.

Hey!

I'd never so much as thrown a leg over one of these bikes before, but got the chance to trade for one a couple of states away and jumped on it. Took it on a 362 mile ride this past Saturday and have fallen completely in love with it! Seems to fit my needs almost perfectly. I've got a ride report with bunches of pics posted over here, if you'd like to take a look: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799767

I rode a mixed bag of highway, gravel, and mud and the DR handled all conditions like a champ.
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