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Old 06-24-2012, 05:43 PM   #66346
BergDonk
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More DR650 stuff, here's some DR pics from our last trip to the Flinders in April/May 2012














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Old 06-24-2012, 05:45 PM   #66347
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
And I wonder how the new Yamaha WR250R might work for you? Seems to be a really popular new entry, but it weighs as much (or more( than the KTM!
I did try a WR250R, and I'm conflicted about it: it's a thoroughly modern bike (aluminium frame, FI, water cooling), has an excellent riding position, good suspension... but how is it possible that a 10-year old KLR300 weighs 236 lbs and the WR with all this latest technology comes in 40 lbs heavier? And this is not just theoretical, you can actually feel the weight of the WR: yes, it feels much lighter than the DR when you move it around, but when you sit on them they feel about equal in how they balance their weight.

In a sense, the DR's weight is less objectionable than the WR's given that the former is a 15-year old bike (and really, has its roots in the mid-'80s). What kind of an excuse can the WR offer?

The 525 EXC is in an entirely different league in that respect: despite the fact that it has to content with double the horsepower of the WR, it weighs 20 lbs less than the WR -- and you can actually feel that when you sit on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
P.S. Not due 'till 2013, but check out the KTM Freeride 350. About 220 pounds and Very Interesting!
Indeed, I had seen the Freeride and huge bonus points to KTM for coming out with such a lightweight bike, but I don't think it's street legal. Plus, 24hp from a 350? That must be a negative record!
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:13 PM   #66348
Snowy
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The old "cush drive bearing failure" hey Steve?

Single sided seal?

Makes you wonder what they were thinking.

I keep spare double sealed jobs in the toolbox.



What was the longest hop between fuel?
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:23 PM   #66349
GaThumper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
I did try a WR250R, and I'm conflicted about it: it's a thoroughly modern bike (aluminium frame, FI, water cooling), has an excellent riding position, good suspension... but how is it possible that a 10-year old KLR300 weighs 236 lbs and the WR with all this latest technology comes in 40 lbs heavier? And this is not just theoretical, you can actually feel the weight of the WR: yes, it feels much lighter than the DR when you move it around, but when you sit on them they feel about equal in how they balance their weight.

In a sense, the DR's weight is less objectionable than the WR's given that the former is a 15-year old bike (and really, has its roots in the mid-'80s). What kind of an excuse can the WR offer?

The 525 EXC is in an entirely different league in that respect: despite the fact that it has to content with double the horsepower of the WR, it weighs 20 lbs less than the WR -- and you can actually feel that when you sit on it.


Indeed, I had seen the Freeride and huge bonus points to KTM for coming out with such a lightweight bike, but I don't think it's street legal. Plus, 24hp from a 350? That must be a negative record!
I agree you would think they could have made the WR lighter, it weighs about the same as my '99 DR350, one reason I'm still riding it! And although it wasn't street legal, I think about the same weight on my old TT500. All I want is a 450cc, 250 pound dual sport with a reliable, dependable, 40hp low maintenance motor and a well spaced 6-speed transmission. Just too much to ask for, I guess?

I thought I had read that the Freeride WOULD be street legal, but I guess we won't know for SURE until it shows up here, hopefully next year. And while the power is down at 24hp, with a weight of 220 it could be enough and hopefully the detuned 350cc motor has good power at lower RPMs and a nice wide power band! I'll bet there will be ways to get a little more power out if it too, since it's essentially a detuned makeover of the 45+ horsepower 350 exc-f.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:31 PM   #66350
Snowy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.dica View Post
MY last on the subject, but after a couple days with the tm40, in my opinion it is no contest that the tm40 is so much better than the properly rejetted BST. It isn't even debatable. Ive no experience with an FCR, but the TM was a wicked upgrade and I'd do it again without a second thought.

50mpg by the way
Who's using a properly jetted standard BST? Pretty sure I mentioned waaay back that it was "controversially modified".

I found the Dynajet kit and the recommended jetting and settings to be an excellent improvement until the first time I filled the fuel tank.

Then I went back to the drawing board.

The only thing I used from the recommended parts was the needle.

I drilled out the hole in the slide, then drilled a second hole, cut 4 full turns off the slide spring, and then stretched it a tad to stop surging. Fitted a washable cotton filter to the vacuum relief for the carb slide.

It has a pod style air filter on it, with an adapter, so the filter is 55mm od at the carb end, and is 100mm long. Straight through muffler off a WR450 with the quiet insert thrown in the bin. WR pipe from the engine pipe joint pack.

Drilled the step out of the slide because after asking questions about it a huge thread war seemed to erupt over the way the Dynajet needle was supposed to sit. So I removed the step and adjusted the needle to compensate, which meant the needle no longer rubbed on the side of the emulsion tube.

I believe it has a 155 main, left the idle alone, used a Procycle extended mixture screw and just adjusted for strongest idle.

Best modification I made, run side by side against pumpers, very little discernible difference.

Spent the cost of a pumper, bought 2 brand new RMZ shocks off ebay, and bought 1 brand new RMZ front wheel.

Ka-ching!


52.3MPG 22.5km/l average.


Ba-zing!


warning: I may have had several double shots of coffee this morning. That's never good. But it's all fun and games. Educational too.

Snowy screwed with this post 06-24-2012 at 06:41 PM
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:08 PM   #66351
BergDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
The old "cush drive bearing failure" hey Steve?

Single sided seal?

Makes you wonder what they were thinking.

I keep spare double sealed jobs in the toolbox.



What was the longest hop between fuel?
Yeah, the last one is replacing a cush drive bearing on the banks of the Darling at Wilcannia while we had lunch.

The bike was recently new to the rider, and it was his first big trip. I checked all the cush bearings most days, but forgot the night before, so while the puncture was being fixed on the other DR, I checked them again. 600 kms since checked, and about 2-3 mm lateral movement of the sprocket had developed in that time. Changed it 50 kms later on a nice concrete footpath. It was a double sealed All Balls or Moose, the ones with blue seals with no markings, and had seen some water, and no extra grease had been added. I doubt any bearing would have done much better. The wheel bearings weren't great either, so while it was out, did them too.

The pic before was a different bike a couple of hours before when the rider kept riding with a flat E09 Dakar, the stiff sidewall one. The tube was spirally shredded and beyond repair. The tyre wasn't great either, with noticable sidewall damage internally. It was also a major pain to break the bead due to the heat and it welding itself to the rim. Just found these pics FYI, seen a tube like this before?



Biggest fuel range needed on this trip was Arkaroola to Cameron Corner, about 420 kms.

Here's a couple more:



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Old 06-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #66352
Snowy
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Cool.

420 is a little outside what my 18 litre tank will do on the DR, if I sat on 70kph maybe. Outside what the 16 litre on the BMW does. Again, maybe at 65~70kph the whole way. No reserve, no room for error.

I want to take wifey out there on the F800, but that becomes problematic fuel wise. I'm planning a run on the DR out there soon.

That tube was "well stuffed" hey? Weird way to shred though.

Lucky it was an E09, most others are weaker in the sidewall.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:22 PM   #66353
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From today's ride...


Hey GoodCat8....recognize anything behind my son's DR..?


Other rides.








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Old 06-24-2012, 08:14 PM   #66354
TRAVELGUY
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I don't live in Oz and have a Safari on my current DR. Previous DR had a IMS. I'm totally happy with the Safari. Center of gavity seems lower with the Safari even with the tank full. Just filled up today after 345 miles.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.dica View Post
Nice pics ADV8! Youv'e got some incredible riding down there. Tell me something, do all you Aussies have the Safari tanks, simply because of massive expanses between fuel stations? Im starting to think Africa, Russia, and Australia are the only places that merit such capacity. Otherwise, having all the weight of a full tank is kind of a drag, no?
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:18 PM   #66355
Feelers
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BST works for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
Who's using a properly jetted standard BST? Pretty sure I mentioned waaay back that it was "controversially modified".
I think I am. It runs well without any surging. It pulls hard when I give it throttle. Throttle response is just fine. It runs up to 100 mph. It's pretty smooth down to 7mph. It gets 56-58 mpg generally. It starts immediately without choke on warm days, and immediately with choke on colder days. It idles at 1400rpm. My temps are reasonable.
...And it pops on decel unless I hold the throttle open just a tiny bit.

Unfortunately, I don't know the specifics of slide drilling, and which needle is in it, and which clip the needle is on. I just swapped out the main jet when I bought it, and it worked great. I'll open it if anyone really cares.

My caveat: I haven't ridden a pumpered DR, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but I would spend $400 on suspension and other farkles long before I'd mess with the carb.

Secondly, I can't really understand the theoretical difference. They both meter fuel. The pumper's slide is throttle controlled and the BST's butterfly is throttle controlled. So the BST meters due to airflow due to butterfly position due to throttle position and the pumper meters due to airflow due to throttle position. Tomato tomatoe... The AP squirts a bit of fuel for a little better power burst when making large throttle movements. But for general riding, it's just metering for both. Knowing how the BST's fuel circuits work and overlap, I see no reason that you guys can't jet it properly. Jets are changeable. Needles are changeable (KTM, stock, Dynojet, European DR, Factory Pro). Needle height is adjustable. Fuel screw is adjustable. Pilot jet is changeable (though doesn't need to be changed). You can even drill the slide or stretch the spring for desired response.

There's my 2 cents.
Carry on!
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:32 PM   #66356
victor441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
I think I am. It runs well without any surging. It pulls hard when I give it throttle. Throttle response is just fine. It runs up to 100 mph. It's pretty smooth down to 7mph. It gets 56-58 mpg generally. It starts immediately without choke on warm days, and immediately with choke on colder days. It idles at 1400rpm. My temps are reasonable.
...And it pops on decel unless I hold the throttle open just a tiny bit.

Unfortunately, I don't know the specifics of slide drilling, and which needle is in it, and which clip the needle is on. I just swapped out the main jet when I bought it, and it worked great. I'll open it if anyone really cares.

My caveat: I haven't ridden a pumpered DR, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but I would spend $400 on suspension and other farkles long before I'd mess with the carb.

Secondly, I can't really understand the theoretical difference. They both meter fuel. The pumper's slide is throttle controlled and the BST's butterfly is throttle controlled. So the BST meters due to airflow due to butterfly position due to throttle position and the pumper meters due to airflow due to throttle position. Tomato tomatoe... The AP squirts a bit of fuel for a little better power burst when making large throttle movements. But for general riding, it's just metering for both. Knowing how the BST's fuel circuits work and overlap, I see no reason that you guys can't jet it properly. Jets are changeable. Needles are changeable (KTM, stock, Dynojet, European DR, Factory Pro). Needle height is adjustable. Fuel screw is adjustable. Pilot jet is changeable (though doesn't need to be changed). You can even drill the slide or stretch the spring for desired response.

There's my 2 cents.
Carry on!
Interesting! just bought my first DR650 this week and it has a Dynojeted BST on it and runs like yours, I have no complaints. The bike came with a used HS40 (Harley version of the TM40) pumper in a box and I've since learned it can be made to work in my Norton Commando so I may save it for that...but hopefully I'll get a chance to ride a DR with a well sorted TM40 so I can decide which bike to put the carb on
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:54 PM   #66357
Snowy
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BST/TM40 in a nutshell.

Throttle response is the primary advantage of a TM over the rejetted standard BST.

Throttle response is what the slide drilling and spring shortening give the BST. Thee was a thread somewhere on doing i, but I can't remember what it was called. DRJOE....something something....I took his mods and figured I'd go just a little further. If a bigger hole and less spring made better response, then 2 holes and even less spring would make more...yeah?

In a nutshell.


The extra fuel that the pumper squirts in when opening the throttle is achieved when the modified BST slide "snaps" open as the throttle is gradually opened. The slide will settle again under constant vacuum, but effectively what is being achieved is an over reaction in the slide. Getting it just right so it doesn't surge as the vacuum drops is the trick.

Because the BST uses a butterfly valve in front of the slide, this tends to even out the airflow.

The overall effect then, is for the BST to go slightly rich as the throttle is being opened.

Which is the same effect as the pumper with it's accelerator pump.

Once at constant throttle, the needle position and the main jet sizes determine the mixture. The slide settles under constant vacuum, and you get normal fuel metering via the transfer and main.


So in summary, lessening the throttle slide spring preload, and drilling the holes in the bottom of the slide will make the slide react faster. What is then achieved is an over reaction, a richening of the mixture, and a "pumper" like acceleration.

Side by side it's not quite as good as a pumper, but it's a hell of a lot better than a rejetted BST. You get the benefits of reasonable fuel consumption and reasonable performance for $0.

Which for me negated the need to buy a pumper. I had other priorities for the cash.

It took a lot of goes to get it right, it became one of those "make it work or else" projects. But it works.

Would I do it again or just buy a pumper? Well...I've made almost all the modifications to my 2nd DR, and it's running well. I'm thinking about a pumper simply because I've built everything else about this bike different to the first one I built.

There's no point making the same thing twice. I like to tinker.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:01 PM   #66358
SkiBumBrian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV8 View Post
This forum is more for the 1996 and on DR650 which was a major face lift year for the bike.
There is a forum here in Thumpers for that earlier DR who will know better but you could always consider the later bike.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61568

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Thanks!
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:59 PM   #66359
Snowy
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The BST40 bible

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347184


Knew it was here somewhere.

read the Carby Mods 101 section

This is referenced to the BST40 that was standard on the older KTM640 Adventures. Very similar carb to the DR.This was the source of some of my ideas, although I remember reading somewhere that only drilling out the existing hole in the slide was recommended.

Can't find reference to that on initial inspection.

I went crazy on the spring shortening. Then stretched the spring a couple of times to get to "no surging" condition.

Essentially, with the way springs work, by shortening the spring (cutting off coils) you are lessening the preload and slightly increasing the spring rate. Edit: this is true if the spring is the same size wire, same size coil - or straight rate. Reducing the number of coils lessens preload, while the remaining spring gets slightly stiffer in rate overall. Getting the right preload/spring rat is the key to this mod. So stretching the spring to correct for cutting off too many coils will very slightly increase it's overall rate - but not by much. The preload on the spring is the most crucial aspect here less preload means the slide opens at less vacuum differential...essentially it's compensation for making the holes in the slide bigger

Some people didn't bother, he covers that in the thread, and there's references to other threads where similar arguments to what has played out here played out.

Lots of people contributing ideas, lots of people on the side lines screeching and throwing poo. It's called the internet.

Enjoy.

Snowy screwed with this post 06-24-2012 at 11:11 PM
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:07 AM   #66360
dljocky
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Valve Checks

My last valve check was over 4700 miles ago. I'm leaving this afternoon for a trip. 1300 miles total. The valve check totally slipped my mind. Any thoughts on whether this would be alright, or should I postpone it? 2009 DR650 with 33,000 miles.
Thanks all.
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