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Old 08-11-2012, 09:18 PM   #68161
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieb View Post
Before I pull my FCR off the bike, will Dynojet needles for a stock carb also fit in the FCR39?
They will not.
Quote:
I've got DJ 150, 155 and 160 jets lying around that I could use if one of those is going to help lean things out.
If these are for the BST, they will not work in the FCR either.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:35 PM   #68162
Eddieb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
They will not.If these are for the BST, they will not work in the FCR either.

Regards,

Derek
Thanks Derek, that saves me the effort of finding out the hard way. I'll lower the needle a couple of clips in the meantime and see what that does while I check out what Phreaky Phil has done with his.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:43 PM   #68163
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieb View Post
Thanks Derek, that saves me the effort of finding out the hard way. I'll lower the needle a couple of clips in the meantime and see what that does while I check out what Phreaky Phil has done with his.
It's not likely that all openings will require leaning out by the same amount, meaning you are likely to need an alternate profile. Even if they did, you would still need a larger base diameter to go along with your main jet and clip position changes.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:14 AM   #68164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieb View Post
Thanks Derek, that saves me the effort of finding out the hard way. I'll lower the needle a couple of clips in the meantime and see what that does while I check out what Phreaky Phil has done with his.
A couple of Aus guys over at DRriders fitted fuel/air gauges to their DR's with FCR's. Thread is here http://drriders.com/topic3733.html

Bergdonk arrived at similar figures from seat of the pants testing (there's no way I could have worked this out myself).

There is some slight variation, but I've copied what they've done and ended up with:

150 mj
38 pilot
100 slow air jet
35 leak jet
main air jet is fixed on my carb
EMP needle on leanest clip plus a shim


This lifted my fuel economy for dirt road/track riding from around 15 to 18-19, no doubt it would be over 20 on easy highway riding.

I've just fitted a NCYS needle (Honda part) - only one ride on this but it seems to run as well as the EMP, with hopefully better fuel economy.

This is with YFZ450 FCR 39mm, twin air filter, cut air box top, ground header weld, and TK Pipes muffler.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:10 AM   #68165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrMnnn View Post
A couple of Aus guys over at DRriders fitted fuel/air gauges to their DR's with FCR's. Thread is here http://drriders.com/topic3733.html

Bergdonk arrived at similar figures from seat of the pants testing (there's no way I could have worked this out myself).

There is some slight variation, but I've copied what they've done and ended up with:

150 mj
38 pilot
100 slow air jet
35 leak jet
main air jet is fixed on my carb
EMP needle on leanest clip plus a shim


This lifted my fuel economy for dirt road/track riding from around 15 to 18-19, no doubt it would be over 20 on easy highway riding.

I've just fitted a NCYS needle (Honda part) - only one ride on this but it seems to run as well as the EMP, with hopefully better fuel economy.

This is with YFZ450 FCR 39mm, twin air filter, cut air box top, ground header weld, and TK Pipes muffler.

Although every bike will be a little different, the EMP needle just wouldnt work at all with my bike.
The root diameter is a few sizes too small and the taper starts too late. If you lift the needle to get 1/4 throttle rich enough it will be way too rich at 1/2 - 3/4. The profile is just wrong for aussie fuel. The NCYS and NCVT type FCR needles have a dual taper that fixes the above scenario.

I doubt you will find any improvement in economy with the Honda needles. EMP @ clip # 1 - 2 will probably be leaner than 16:1 at 1/4 throttle cruising whereas the NCYS or NCVT will be in the high 13 to low14 range. The Honda needles will be both be leaner @ 1/8 throttle. They will both be more responsive at around 1/4 throttle.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:20 AM   #68166
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Mileage

I know there is a lot of discussion here on fuel economy, jetting and so forth. But under what conditions does Suzuki expect 56 mpg? I have a stock '12 and barely get 42 mpg; regardless of the conditions - highway, city (haven't been off road yet). That's 25% less than what they claim. I do not ride hard - hell I have barely opened the throttle.

I get there are probably some things I can do to get better mileage, but 42 is not close to the claim.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #68167
NorCal Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Load Clear View Post
I know there is a lot of discussion here on fuel economy, jetting and so forth. But under what conditions does Suzuki expect 56 mpg? I have a stock '12 and barely get 42 mpg; regardless of the conditions - highway, city (haven't been off road yet). That's 25% less than what they claim. I do not ride hard - hell I have barely opened the throttle.

I get there are probably some things I can do to get better mileage, but 42 is not close to the claim.
Bummer..I'm sure you'll get all the good advice here..I have an '06 with 31k miles that is stock (I've only dropped the cs sprocket to 14 and I removed the snorkel..haven't touched the carb) I always get anywhere from mid 50's to low 60's...so it is possible.. good luck!
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:10 AM   #68168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Load Clear View Post
I know there is a lot of discussion here on fuel economy, jetting and so forth. But under what conditions does Suzuki expect 56 mpg? I have a stock '12 and barely get 42 mpg; regardless of the conditions - highway, city (haven't been off road yet). That's 25% less than what they claim. I do not ride hard - hell I have barely opened the throttle.

I get there are probably some things I can do to get better mileage, but 42 is not close to the claim.
mine was a 45mpg average no matter even with a flat CR carb for a couple years. then it slowly but steadily dropped to high 30s.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:27 AM   #68169
zdiver1
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Grifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Anyone know what happened to ADVGrifter? He was very active here and hasn't been heard from since June 6th 2012. Hope everything is OK.
I have been banned two times myself so I do not post on here anymore I do lurk around, I am saving my third strike. If I have a problem and need your guys help!
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:19 PM   #68170
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrMnnn View Post
A couple of Aus guys over at DRriders fitted fuel/air gauges to their DR's with FCR's. Thread is here http://drriders.com/topic3733.html
I don't consider O2 sensors to be very useful. Here's a brief overview:

1) There is no direct relationship between O2 content and AFR.
2) Even when the mixture cannot be improved, O2 content can and does vary from "ideal".
3) The O2 content can be "perfect" while the mixture is way off.
4) There are may factors that affect O2 content, such as bore size, exhaust valve sealing, ignition timing, and misfires.
5) There is no single "perfect" O2-derived AFR that is applicable to all engines and all combinations of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
6) An O2 sensor's response time is not zero, meaning that there will be a delay between when an O2 content is produced and when it will be read/displayed.
7) An O2 sensor's response time is not likely to be consistent, meaning that the above mentioned delay will vary (i.e. a simple offset will not work).
8) Changes in pressure affect O2 sensor accuracy (pressures inside exhaust systems fluctuate wildly).
9) Changes in temperature affect O2 sensor accuracy, and a heater cannot respond quickly enough to keep it constant.
10) Changes in input voltage affect O2 sensor accuracy (the better controllers can usually eliminate this problem).
11) In the end, AFR is irrelevant. What is relevant is HP and or BSFC at a given intersection of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
12) CO% is the strongest indicator of whether or not the mixture strength is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC
13) NOx content (as far as gasses go) is the strongest indicator of whether or not the timing is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC, and that it is not detonating.
14) O2 is not a tuning gas. O2 is a diagnostic gas. As such, it tells us about problems such as leaky exhaust valves, weak ignition, misfires & stagger issues after having tuned fuel via CO (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC) and ignition advance via NOX (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC).

I'm pleased to note that posters at http://drriders.com/topic3733.html have exhibited awareness of at least some of the above-mentioned.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:19 PM   #68171
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Selling a pro moto billet rack and Wolfman side racks in the parts section.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #68172
scottbed
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mileage

Quote:
Originally Posted by plugeye View Post
mine was a 45mpg average no matter even with a flat CR carb for a couple years. then it slowly but steadily dropped to high 30s.
I bought an '02 in '08....the first two years I got 47-48 mpg....then it slowly and steadily dropped to high 30s. I soaked the carb in pine-sol, had it professionally cleaned by a mechanic, new jets, new gaskets/o-rings. I couldn't make the mileage better. Performance also deteriorated along with the mileage...surging and other symptoms. I even tried a used but known good running carb and it didn't run much better (but it had been bastardized with my carb so maybe something came over from my carb that was the problem).

Enter the TM-40 pumper carb, new intake boot, new exhaust gasket, new slip-on and now I'm back up to 48. I got 41mpg the first tank but I rode mostly city so I can understand. My 2nd tank was 48mpg with more normal riding....I may drop the needle one slot and see if it improves as long as I don't lose performance.

So something fixed the issue, I assume the carb was the problem because I tested the intake boot. I'm wondering if there was something internal that I couldn't clean out that was the problem or maybe the slide diaphragm had issue. I checked float level a few times and I'm 99% sure I did it correctly.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:24 PM   #68173
eRRmmm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I don't consider O2 sensors to be very useful. Here's a brief overview:

1) There is no direct relationship between O2 content and AFR.
2) Even when the mixture cannot be improved, O2 content can and does vary from "ideal".
3) The O2 content can be "perfect" while the mixture is way off.
4) There are may factors that affect O2 content, such as bore size, exhaust valve sealing, ignition timing, and misfires.
5) There is no single "perfect" O2-derived AFR that is applicable to all engines and all combinations of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
6) An O2 sensor's response time is not zero, meaning that there will be a delay between when an O2 content is produced and when it will be read/displayed.
7) An O2 sensor's response time is not likely to be consistent, meaning that the above mentioned delay will vary (i.e. a simple offset will not work).
8) Changes in pressure affect O2 sensor accuracy (pressures inside exhaust systems fluctuate wildly).
9) Changes in temperature affect O2 sensor accuracy, and a heater cannot respond quickly enough to keep it constant.
10) Changes in input voltage affect O2 sensor accuracy (the better controllers can usually eliminate this problem).
11) In the end, AFR is irrelevant. What is relevant is HP and or BSFC at a given intersection of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
12) CO% is the strongest indicator of whether or not the mixture strength is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC
13) NOx content (as far as gasses go) is the strongest indicator of whether or not the timing is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC, and that it is not detonating.
14) O2 is not a tuning gas. O2 is a diagnostic gas. As such, it tells us about problems such as leaky exhaust valves, weak ignition, misfires & stagger issues after having tuned fuel via CO (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC) and ignition advance via NOX (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC).

I'm pleased to note that posters at http://drriders.com/topic3733.html have exhibited awareness of at least some of the above-mentioned.

Regards,

Derek
Fair enough. Their results seem to be pretty good though, my bike is running better than it was before and fuel economy has improved significantly. It certainly seems a good place to start for FCR owners with Aus/NZ fuel.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #68174
canuckAME
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I put a TM 40 on this summer. With the BST40 I was in the 55-60 MPG range ( Imperial gallon it's larger than a US gal ) With the TM40 it's gone up to 60-65 MPG. Have a 15 tooth CS sprocket and a 45 tooth rear sprocket.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:04 PM   #68175
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottbed View Post
I bought an '02 in '08....the first two years I got 47-48 mpg....then it slowly and steadily dropped to high 30s. I soaked the carb in pine-sol, had it professionally cleaned by a mechanic, new jets, new gaskets/o-rings. I couldn't make the mileage better. Performance also deteriorated along with the mileage...surging and other symptoms. I even tried a used but known good running carb and it didn't run much better (but it had been bastardized with my carb so maybe something came over from my carb that was the problem).
Were the slide guide, emulsion tube, slide and/or jet needle replaced?

Regards,

Derek
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