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Old 12-16-2012, 01:04 PM   #71896
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
I've got to imagine that since the extra range of the springs is being substituted for firmness, that it becomes a tiny bit harsher for a given outcome than would buying new springs that are just as long as the stock ones, but made thicker.
It makes no difference whether the rate is achieved with a shorter spring or bigger wire. Rate is rate. The only time you have to worry about a shorter spring is if the travel is so long that that the spring could become coil bound before the fork would normally bottom (not a common issue).
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Anyway, I can't quite see how cutting my springs to save money would be such a bad idea since I'm not creating a Baha racing machine here. The last bike I bought springs for showed me that aftermarket springs were often shorter, anyway, than the originals.
Just make sure you cut them evenly so the rates are the same, and that you close the ends and grind them so they are square and flat when you are done.

Regards,

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Old 12-16-2012, 01:36 PM   #71897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
It makes no difference whether the rate is achieved with a shorter spring or bigger wire. Rate is rate. The only time you have to worry about a shorter spring is if the travel is so long that that the spring could become coil bound before the fork would normally bottom (not a common issue).Just make sure you cut them evenly so the rates are the same, and that you close the ends and grind them so they are square and flat when you are done.

Regards,

Derek
Thanks man - like, evenly within... say... 2mm or 4mm? or are we talking precise here?

I take it the PVC i should buy will be schedule 40... anyone happen to know the size?
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:55 PM   #71898
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks man - like, evenly within... say... 2mm or 4mm? or are we talking precise here?
I wouldn't worry too much as the rates likely varied to some degree to begin with. If you wanted to do a really good job, you could measure the rates after cutting and then once again after closing the ends and grinding. Oh, and a belt sander will do a far better job getting the ends flat than a grinding wheel.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #71899
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Originally Posted by SprintST View Post
Hi guys,

Quick question. I'm on the road in southern Argentina and can't replace my chain for a few days. I adjust at the tightest spot, of which there shouldn't be one after only about 10k kms. When I'm on the loaded bike the chain is quite loose. Better loose than tight, I know, but does anyone have any suggestions on other courses of adjustment? When should the damn thing be adjusted? Loaded? Loaded, with my fat ass on it as well? Unloaded? On side stand? Upright under its own weight? Rear wheel off the ground?

Will a sticky point chain ever "unstuck"? It's at 4+2 on the adjuster cam now.

It's all cleaned up, lubed and awaiting your collective wisdom.

Cheers!
The pic shows where you want your chain to still have some free play. It's where the chain is at its tightest, whether the bike is loaded or not. I use a ratchet strap over the seat to pull the bike down until the three points are in line. Lay something over the seat so the strap doesn't cut the cover. Depending on how long the kickstand is, be careful the bike doesn't tip over (high side).

Thanks to BergDonk for finding the pic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
.............................

I take it the PVC i should buy will be schedule 40... anyone happen to know the size?
Stock fork spring spacer: 37mm diameter (1.465") - 40mm tall (1.58")
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:32 PM   #71900
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[QUOTE=ER70S-2;20263761]The pic shows where you want your chain to still have some free play. It's where the chain is at its tightest, whether the bike is loaded or not. I use a ratchet strap over the seat to pull the bike down until the three points are in line. Lay something over the seat so the strap doesn't cut the cover. Depending on how long the kickstand is, be careful the bike doesn't tip over (high side).

Thanks to BergDonk for finding the pic.


Thanks ER70S-2
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:03 PM   #71901
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
If you wanted to do a really good job, you could measure the rates after cutting and then once again after closing the ends and grinding.
Regards,

Derek
Wow! what a great idea! Not sure where I'd get the measuring apparatuses, but a damned fine idea!

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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post

Stock fork spring spacer: 37mm diameter (1.465") - 40mm tall (1.58")
Thank you!
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #71902
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Thanks ER70S-2
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thank you!
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:50 PM   #71903
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Just make sure you cut them evenly so the rates are the same,
Derek
Why? The forks are going to be connected by the axle and will move up and down synchronously.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:50 PM   #71904
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Starter Gurus?

Well, bike's still not running and I believe the starter is now a gone'r. Symptoms: Fully charged battery, key on, ignition switch engaged, starter will barely turn if at all and the battery goes to complete drainage while the ignition switch is engaged.

I did drop voltage tests on all the wiring from the battery in the starter circuit including the starter itself...all seems to check out. Removed the starter this evening and took it apart, only to find some very clean and unworn looking starter guts. Put it back together and tried bench testing it with a battery and a couple of wires. All it will do is arc and spark, no spinage. I mean, there's no much to it, and it all appears to be in order. This inmate is baffled.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:57 PM   #71905
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Why? The forks are going to be connected by the axle and will move up and down synchronously.
If that were the case, Fork Braces would never had been invented.

I think he has a good point there when he suggested making sure they're close to even in an attempt to do whatever we can to make a better-handling bike. Redneck riders won't agree to it, but then they tend to be the ones adjusting the preload to get a change out of rate.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:23 PM   #71906
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If that were the case, Fork Braces would never had been invented.

I think he has a good point there when he suggested making sure they're close to even in an attempt to do whatever we can to make a better-handling bike. Redneck riders won't agree to it, but then they tend to be the ones adjusting the preload to get a change out of rate.

I have a set of .42 kg/mm Moto-Pro fork springs in my KLX250S.... just a tad too soft so I called up Moto-Pro to order a pair of .44 kg/mm fork springs. Moto-Pro suggested that if I find the .44's too harsh I could use a .42 in one fork, and a .44 in the other to end up with a .43 kg/mm spring rate.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #71907
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Why? The forks are going to be connected by the axle and will move up and down synchronously.
Modern axles have become better, but the front axle is unfortunately still not infinitely stiff.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:36 PM   #71908
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So you're not a fan of the latest SFF (Single Function Forks) MX forks as fitted to the latest KXs and RMZs?



Admittedly these have bigger (stiffer and stronger) axles than a DR, but small differences in oil levels and spring rates in a DR fork will not make a difference to the perceived or actual performance. Theoretically yes, in practice, no. In fact I doubt any pair of springs would measure the EXACT same rate due to manufacturing tolerances.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:42 PM   #71909
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I've seen examples of different internals in fork legs in mountain bike forks, but they have a fork brace.

I have to think that either, for normal motorcycles (which includes the DR650 since it isn't stellar in the suspension department), all those people who claim the fork braces they added really aren't doing anything to improve the handling and wind characteristics of their bikes, or that there is something to it, and thus balance in fork springs for forks without an additional brace is a good idea. So either I'm not understanding what a fork brace actually does to less-than-stellar forks, or tons of riders have been scammed by unscrupulous fork-brace manufacturers.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:49 PM   #71910
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Fork braces don't just assist the axle to keep the sliders working up and down together, they also reduce fork twist generated under brakes that you get with a single disc. The DR forks are faily flexxy and this is a particularly noticable improvement that you get with stiffer USDs. When thay flex, they also bind a bit, so their bump absorption is not as good when loaded as a stronger fork is.
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