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Old 12-17-2012, 01:45 PM   #71956
BergDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Or to the Paioli forks on 1993 Gilera Nordwests...

Spring one side, damping in t'other.
Yep, the Paolis in my 2008 Scorpa trials bike are SFF too which I neglected to mention earlier
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #71957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
i'm curious about the exhaust pulses than move through the muffler.
have you ever cut open a stock muffler and measured the openings?
if the GSXR muffler is optimized for 250cc pulses (a 1000cc 4 stroke motor so 1 cyl 250cc pulse at a time so everyone can visualize that) YET it performs better than the stock muffler what the stock muffler pulse flow at?

150cc? less, more?

so then using this anology then Hayabusa muffler is from a 1300cc bike with 2 mufflers so each pipe sees 650cc of engine and 2 cyl of engine pumping so it flows at 325cc pulses. no wonder people who have used that muffler say it performs better than the GSXR muffler. have you dyno'd the Busa pipe to compare?
Well obviously Suzuki spent a lot more engineering time on the GSXR exhaust system because bike sales in that market live or die by horsepower numbers and quarter mile times. There's no incentive for Suzuki to optimize the DR muffler for performance.

All factory mufflers have to meet 80dB sound levels on the original bike. It's easier to muffle a smaller bang than a big one so the GSXR cans can be a little freer flowing and still meet sound requirements.

I haven't done any cutting and comparing. I don't know what good that information would do me but if anyone wants to send me their $200 GSXR muffler I'll be glad to run it through the bandsaw to see what makes it tick.

Maybe a Busa muffler flows better but then again the bigger bangs from the Busa motor will take more muffling to meet sound requirements. The only way to know would be to do back to back dyno testing.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:33 PM   #71958
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Originally Posted by macrae85 View Post
Thought i better show that mudguard since the Yanks lack choice in motorcycles!
Hey Mate, shouldn't you be across the border by now? Are you going to talk your so called "adventure" to death ... or go riding? You've been around here for at least two years (on HU too) putting down the DR650 and have never got out of AZ yet. ?Tiene miedo? ?Que pasa pendejo?

Yea, we don't get that overweight and poking Yamaha ... but for SM racing the WR450 is a popular choice here ... and all the below are for sale here too: Husky, Husaberg, Aprilia, KTM ... plus the various Japanese SM bikes.
No 660 Yamaha.
Choices? You must be joking!







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Old 12-17-2012, 03:55 PM   #71959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
so then using this anology, the Hayabusa muffler is from a 1300cc bike with 2 mufflers. each pipe sees 650cc of the engine (being pushed by 2 cyl) so it flows at approx 325cc pulses (this does not acct for cross over pipes in the header which spreads this pulse flow out) . no wonder people who have used that muffler say it performs better than the GSXR muffler. have you dyno'd the Busa pipe to compare?
The Busa exhaust system looks like it goes from 4-2-1-2 meaning that there is sort of a collector for all 4 pistons. So, if that's right, the math is 1300cc / 4 cyl = 325cc pulses, and 325cc pulses / 2 mufflers = 162.5cc pulses. If the Busa muffler actually performs better, it is not because it is made to handle larger individual pulses.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:07 PM   #71960
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Wow

Thanks guys, grinded it down and bolted it up. I need your advice again. Last summer i had the shop do some engine work and while they were at it they were supposed to put in the oil filter i had them order. Well i got it back and 3k miles later i go to change the oil and theres no damn filter in there! I got a magnetic plug and a filter in there now, and i was thinking of running it a couple hundred miles or so and draining it again. What do you think.?
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:24 PM   #71961
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That'd be my call. I'd also get an admission from the shop that did the work that they forgot your filter.

I just did NSU screws on a new DR (200 miles) and changed the oil for the owner. Little bits of manufacturing stuff in there. For those keeping track, the NSU screws were the tightest I've dealt with and may have been fine forever. They still got loctite and star washer since we were in there.

I like the grey color.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:34 PM   #71962
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The manager rebuilt my forks and changed a tube and tire free because they screwed up. The bike was 2 months past due in the shop and they charged me more than they promised. I will NOT be going back to that shop.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #71963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrophyHunter View Post
That'd be my call. I'd also get an admission from the shop that did the work that they forgot your filter.

I just did NSU screws on a new DR (200 miles) and changed the oil for the owner. Little bits of manufacturing stuff in there. For those keeping track, the NSU screws were the tightest I've dealt with and may have been fine forever. They still got loctite and star washer since we were in there.

I like the grey color.
Agreed.

Re the NSU screws, the issue is that with numerous heating and cooling cycles the plastic shrinks a poofteenth and then the tension goes off the screws. A new bike should be tight.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:02 PM   #71964
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Makes complete sense. Thx BD.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:51 PM   #71965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macrae85 View Post
Thought i better show that mudguard since the Yanks lack choice in motorcycles!
All those shitty mud guards do when ridden in the mud we have here is get jammed up and stop the front wheel from turning. That's why REAL dirt bikes don't have the silly things
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:37 PM   #71966
ghollaba
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Used DR650SE, your thoughts

Would appreciate some input guys.

Getting back into riding after selling the 1150GS and wanting something used fro under $5,000.
Primary use back roads, 15 miles to work in good weather, dirt/gravel fire roads.
No toll roads, some highway but no long distances.

The DR650SE sits well, going to go ride one this week.

Is there a year to stay away from?
Anything to look for?

Would the dreaded ugly KLR650, "gasp" be a better jeep, ugly ugly bike...?

Appreciate it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #71967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghollaba View Post
Would the dreaded ugly KLR650, "gasp" be a better jeep, ugly ugly bike...?.
It's certainly much uglier. But no way is it better. If you want lighter, simpler and less costly, go for the DR.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #71968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
Agreed.

Re the NSU screws, the issue is that with numerous heating and cooling cycles the plastic shrinks a poofteenth and then the tension goes off the screws. A new bike should be tight.
I'm wondering if DR650's that are subject to real winter cold are far more prone to having the screws come out vs. a DR650, like mine, that has been a Florida bike all its life. At over 7k miles, while every other bolt on the exterior was coming out due to really high RPM riding I was doing for really fast commuting, my NSU screws were most likely just as tight as they were when new.

I was surprised, but now I'm not. I'm thinking that plastic of the NSU, itself, is what is shrinking in the colder climates and de-tensioning the screws.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:32 PM   #71969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
The dyno says so. The dyno also says the GSXR can requires a smaller main jet for the best peak horsepower.
The GSXR 1000 makes 250cc exhaust pulses that are individually blasted out the exhaust. The DR650 makes much larger individual exhaust pulses that have to escape. The total horsepower has a lot less to to with breathing than the size of the individual bang that has to find its way out.

There's no doubt that the GSXR can breathes better than the stock DR muffler but it's really only about 60% of the improvement that can be had with a good aftermarket muffler.

And of course, the GSXR1000 can gain more than 10 HP by installing a better flowing exhaust. It's choked up by the stock exhaust just like the DR is. That's one reason why there used to be so many good take-off mufflers around.
Okay, so I have standard exhaust system plus I have a TM40............if I went and put a stainintune exhaust system on my bike, do you think there would be noticeable performance improvements. ? Just wondering, as I'm not entirely happy with the standard exhaust, apart from sounding like the proverbial sewing machine, it does feel as though its restricting the power potential.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:37 PM   #71970
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Eek Inside the mysterious GSXR muffler

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Well obviously Suzuki spent a lot more engineering time on the GSXR exhaust system because bike sales in that market live or die by horsepower numbers and quarter mile times. There's no incentive for Suzuki to optimize the DR muffler for performance.

All factory mufflers have to meet 80dB sound levels on the original bike. It's easier to muffle a smaller bang than a big one so the GSXR cans can be a little freer flowing and still meet sound requirements.

I haven't done any cutting and comparing. I don't know what good that information would do me but if anyone wants to send me their $200 GSXR muffler I'll be glad to run it through the bandsaw to see what makes it tick.

Maybe a Busa muffler flows better but then again the bigger bangs from the Busa motor will take more muffling to meet sound requirements. The only way to know would be to do back to back dyno testing.
Have you ever looked in a GSXR muffler?
It is really very interesting how simple it is.
You don't have to cut it open to see what makes it work.
You just have to look in both ends with a light.

It is just a simple two chamber design with staggered inlet and outlet tubes internally.
The size of the inner chamber tube is almost as large as the outlet tube.
It flows plenty of volume but it is not a straight through design so it creates back pressure waves reflecting back off the baffle plate. The pipe through the baffle plate is offset from center. It also sticks out into the first chamber as that minimizes the size of the sound/pressure wave that can travel unrestricted through the pipe. That internal pipe extends a few inches into the second chamber and just beyond the outlet pipe inner end. The interior of the can shell has a thin layer of sound mat covered with a thin perforated retainer. (not fiberglass, but I haven't cut one up yet to see what it is)

By pushing the leading edge of both the internal tube and the outlet tube in from flush with the baffle or end cap, they minimize the sound wave without slowing the flow. Similar to an expansion chamber on a two stroke can have the outlet pipe (we called them "stinger's" way back when) pushed inside the reverse cone and greatly reduce the sound level while maintaining the same power chart as a pipe with the same size stinger flush with the end of the reverse cone.

If, or when, you can shine a light inside both ends of the GSXR can and stick a tape measure in there you will appreciate how simple a device it really is. It will never flow as well as a straight through muffler so it will not work as well at higher rpm as the other (louder) mufflers.

I prefer the sound a fresh packed straight through muffler makes but I don't care to repack it every third ride.

I have a desire to cut open my spare GSXR muffler and remove the center baffle plate and inner chamber tube just to see how it sounds as a single chamber design.

So many projects, so little time...
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