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Old 01-09-2013, 12:18 PM   #72646
opium89
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Location: Hutto, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
I would get this needle: #584310346-G5. I think that is the right part number for the KTM LC4.... Don't forget the circlip.

Do you have a motorcycle shop nearby? I would keep the stock size pilot jet, though. Putting in a new one would eliminate that though as a problem source. I'd also buy 2 main jets - 2 on either side of your current jet. They are like $4 each at my local shop. What is your current main jet anyway?
I am *fairly* certain it is all stock, but I am beginning to wonder if perhaps the PO may have changed out either the main or pilot jet (which could possibly be the actual source of the problem). I didn't actually check them for sizing when I had the carb apart. The reason I say this is because *someone* has had this carb apart, as witnessed by the stripped out float bowl screws I replaced. Do you know if the jets are stamped with their respective sizes?

There'a also a couple other things to note. The idle on this bike seems a little high to me. This is with the idle adjustment backed all the way down. The second thing of note is there is a little bit of a "backfire" immediately after the bike is shut off. This has been consistent since I've gotten it running. I use the term "backfire" loosely, as it's more like a muffled "boom" sound, as opposed to the "pop pop pop" I get when the bike is running noticeably lean when cranking the air/fuel screw down. The sweet spot for the air/fuel mixture screw seems to be between about 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 open. Get past 3 turns or so, and the idle speed starts to creep upwards.

I will see about taking it back apart this evening and see if I can determine the sizes of both the main and pilot jet. I know for certain the needle is a stock part, as it is marked as such. Do you use the same plastic spacer from the stock needle with the KTM needle?
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #72647
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Well, the bike is running...yeah! After three separate carburetor removal and cleanings, and replacing all the gaskets and o-rings, I finally got it vrooming along. However, I do have a problem I am having trouble diagnosing and ultimately resolving. For reference, I have no idea how the bike ran before it blew up on the previous owner, but this bike does have a DG exhaust system installed, along with a K&N air filter.

So, the problem is basically on off-idle hesitation. It's not present while the bike is sitting and rev'd, but very obvious when riding it. Any acceleration off idle in any gear and there is a noticeable "bog" before it starts moving along. I have done my research and it appears to be a common problem that can apparently be caused by a gummed up carb, or increasing flow by such things as...aftermarket exhausts and upgraded air filters Since the carb is not spotless, I am going under the assumption that it is indeed these two items that are the root cause of the problem

What I can't determine however is if the pilot jet, or perhaps the needle are suspect. Most of my reading was leading me to believe that swapping out the pilot jet for a 47.5 would most likely be the cure, but after a chat with a vendor yesterday, they are pretty firmly convinced that a replacement needle will be the cure.

That said, I would be happy trying both options, so here's the real question of the day. Does anyone know where these two items can be acquired on the cheap? I've tried calling Sudco on the pilot jet, but they were far less than useful on the phone and are completely unable to determine which pilot get I need. Procycle of course sells the needle in a kit, but as you probably know, it's a little pricey, and I only really want/need the needle and not the rest of the parts included.

It would be very helpful if anyone could provide a Sudco part number, or perhaps another location and identification for purchasing the pilot jet, and perhaps point me to a vendor who can sell me just a needle for much less than the $40 or so I have been quoted for it elsewhere.

Any help/info would be greatly appreciated here.
Paging DR DR DEREK to the White Courtesy Phone ... DR. DEREK PLEASE!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:23 PM   #72648
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by 805gregg View Post
I got a completly stock '96 with 10,000 miles for $1900, keep looking.
Excuse me? Hey Greg ... what about those pesky 10 years difference in age of these two bikes? And how many owners had your bike in those ten years?
And did you know a 5th grader can disconnect the stock speedo? I never trust it ... look at the bike, listen to the motor.

To me ... those ten years are easily worth the $1600 price difference.

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Old 01-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #72649
NordieBoy
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
+1
It's well documented on the various DR650 forums that a pilot jet larger than stock will cause a rich stumble.
Unless you've compensated by upping the pilot air as well.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:18 PM   #72650
doug s.
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Not a bad deal. Nice DR's are going up in price ... most places anyway.
'06 seems to be "a good year". Some newer DR's have had a few mysterious issues. '05 to '07 seem pretty good. My '06 is at 50K miles.
My only concern is the owner saying he wants to buy a Motocrosser. This could be insight into how your DR was used. If he's a young moto cross guy then he's likely beat the HELL out of the bike. I would look closely for tell tale signs or hard riding / abuse. Bring an experienced friend along to help you checking things out.

Have a close listen to the motor when HOT. Check under side of bike for dents, deep scrapes. Is there caked / baked on Mud? (rain ridden)
Any dents in wheels .... look close. How are the controls? any bent levers, dirty switches or sloppy cables/hoses? All this indicates some hard use. If it was only used as a commuter .... then at just 8000 miles the bike should be fairly PRISTINE.

I would offer $3000 and see what happens. Most aftermarket stuff cannot be added to re-sale value of the bike in most cases. Be friendly but direct.
Good luck. It's a great bike ... you'll love it.
per the o.p., the seller will sell for $3k; the o.p. wants to steal it at $2.5k. best to judge in person, but from the c/l pics (and description), it seems the bike has seen extremely limited off-road use - it does look quite pristine... while not a steal, $3k seems a fair price for this bike... imo of course!


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Old 01-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #72651
neo1piv014
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Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Location location. I got mine for 3400 and it had less farkles. It had 6700 miles and I know from working on it that it didn't see offroad much. Some areas they're cheap while some you can't find any. While I think you could do better if you waited, I am going to dissent and say if it checks out well it's not a bad deal. Just average like mine was
$3400 is what I bought mine for as well. It was a 2001 with 6000 miles on it, and he had done damn near every single mod I wanted. Fuel tank, engine case armor, bash plate, corbin seat, pro taper bars, Acerbis hand guards, tail light, etc, and he still had all the stock parts and receipts for everything he did for it. Looking at how cheap some people got theirs for, I felt a bit miffed at first, but having my bike be a damn near complete package from day one was easily worth that price.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:37 PM   #72652
procycle
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Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Unless you've compensated by upping the pilot air as well.
Yes, yes, but you may be the only DR owner who has done that. Most expect a bigger pilot jet will cure a lean hesitation which is actually due to the needle. They end up with a rich bog off idle followed by the same lean hesitation they started out with.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #72653
Skidmarkart
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
So, the problem is basically on off-idle hesitation. It's not present while the bike is sitting and rev'd, but very obvious when riding it. Any acceleration off idle in any gear and there is a noticeable "bog" before it starts moving along.
That said, I would be happy trying both options, so here's the real question of the day. Does anyone know where these two items can be acquired on the cheap?
Any help/info would be greatly appreciated here.
I had the exact same problem, a few weeks ago and per Derek and other's here (EROS7 ??? and Procycle) it was a clogged pilot. Maybe your search -fu is better than mine and you can find it. I figured I order a carb rebuilt kit anyway, if I was going to take the carb off and tear it down. Sure a s**t they were exactly right. I even found the little chunk of dirt in the pilot. I Pine-Soled the carb, then put it back together using the bits that were already on it. My bike power-wheelies pretty easily in first and second now. The difference is amazing. Wasn't hard. Took about 30 mins to get everything off and disassembled, then maybe 2 hours the next day of cleaning and putting everything back.

Just get the BST-40 Bible off this forum and follow it to perfection. Do the Pine-Sol soak and clean (yeah it takes overnight, but it is dirt cheap and it works!). Then make sure your little seocndary filter is clean (mine was filthy on a bike with 800 miles!) and there no air obstructions (like the mouse-chewed snorkle on my bike to get int the way).

Oh yeah, it's easier with beer.

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #72654
opium89
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Originally Posted by trentster View Post
I offered $2,500 cash today... he is stuck at $3,000. Here is the Craigs List link to see pic.
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/mcy/3489277336.html

I would put a center stand, skid plate and windshield on it right away. How much of an improvement are the performance mods? Thanks!!!

For reference, I have two of them. One is a 2000 model I paid $2000 for and had 15,000 on it or so. Corbin seat and skid plate, a few spare sprockets were all that was included. The second is a 99 (the one I have been discussing lately) I bought for $600 with a grenaded case due to the solid starter gear failure. With new bottom end and a few odds and ends, I am probably in it now for about $1500, but this bike only has 6000 actual miles on it.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:50 PM   #72655
opium89
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Originally Posted by Skidmarkart View Post
I had the exact same problem, a few weeks ago and per Derek and other's here (EROS7 ??? and Procycle) it was a clogged pilot. Maybe your search -fu is better than mine and you can find it. I figured I order a carb rebuilt kit anyway, if I was going to take the carb off and tear it down. Sure a s**t they were exactly right. I even found the little chunk of dirt in the pilot. I Pine-Soled the carb, then put it back together using the bits that were already on it. My bike power-wheelies pretty easily in first and second now. The difference is amazing. Wasn't hard. Too about 30 mins to get everything off and disassembled, then maybe 2 hours the nest day of cleaning and putting everything back.

Just get the BST-40 Bible off this forum and follow it to perfection. Do the Pine-Sol soak and clean (yeah it takes overnight, but it is dirt cheap and it works!). Then make sure your little seocndary filter is clean (mine was filthy on a bike with 800 miles!) and there no air obstructions (like the mouse-chewed snorkle on my bike to get int the way).

Oh yeah, it's easier with beer.
As mentioned, I have had this carb completely apart three times now. The last time (the time I finally got it running) I soaked it in chem-dip, blew out every orifice I could identify with carb cleaner, and replaced all the gaskets and o-rings. The most problematic "clog" I was able to identify was a brass widget that resides at the end of one of the plastic float tubes...it was completely closed and gummed up. Granted, the bike has been sitting with a blown engine for an undetermined amount of time. Besides the hesitation, it is running fairly strong now.

When you say "pilot", are you referring to the "pilot jet" or the "pilot screw" that some will call the air/fuel mixture screw? Also, when you say "pilot" are you referring to the jet itself, or the orifice it resides in?
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:03 PM   #72656
Skidmarkart
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post

When you say "pilot", are you referring to the "pilot jet" or the "pilot screw" that some will call the air/fuel mixture screw? Also, when you say "pilot" are you referring to the jet itself, or the orifice it resides in?
Sorry - the jet. The little orifice had a chunk of something inside. Never figured out what it was, but I was able to blow it out after the Pine Sol.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #72657
dogjaw
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Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I just have to put the new grips on (Renthal dual compound, half waffle), but I have a few n00b questions:
  1. Is there any special trick with applying the grip glue, or do you just smear it on and push the grips home?
  2. Is there any special trick with putting the Bark Busters back on the left grip, or do you just cut a hole in the end of the grip?
  3. Based on the pic below, does the 'waffle' on the right hand side point to the front of the bike, or the back, or somewhere else?

1. I don't use grip glue. I use oil. The grip is made of rubber and the oil means you can slide the grip on and then the rubber absorbs the oil and it's on there solid. Never had to lockwire a grip in my life.

2. Once the grips are on use a rubber mallet on the end of the bar and the bar will punch through the grip like a cookie cutter.

3. I would think the waffle bit lines up with your palm.
Have used hairspray for twenty years to install grips on mountain bikes, road bikes and now the DR's... The alcohol evaporates after you slide the grips on, let it sit for a bit to set up, never had one break loose, even in the wet.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:16 PM   #72658
opium89
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Originally Posted by Skidmarkart View Post
Sorry - the jet. The little orifice had a chunk of something inside. Never figured out what it was, but I was able to blow it out after the Pine Sol.
Did you noticed any of the other symptoms I've described? Idle that seems high? Strange, muffled "boom" when the bike is shut off? I am able to lean the bike out via the fuel mixture screw to the point of some pretty serious decel popping, and the idle increases pretty dramatically at the other end of the spectrum when I get to about 3 1/2 turns out on the screw.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:52 PM   #72659
deathu
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Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
One way is to monitor the extension of the tensioner plunger. But its sort of dependant on knowing where it is with a new chain, and how far in it is that represents a problem. I don't know eitehr for the DR. I had mine out recently to service the starter and estimated it to be about half way on the plunger at 57,000 kms. No chain rattles, so OK for the moment. Not much help I'm afraid.
Thanks, do you happen to know approximately how much the plunger was extended at those 57.000kms? (I mean distance from the gasket surface to the tip of the plunger). Also I do not actually know how the automatic tensioner works, I presume it retains it's length when you remove it from the cylinder? Or does it extend fully when removed?


Another thing that concerns me is the piston. It seems to be in a relatively good shape, apart from the piston pin bores - they look sort of "eroded" although you can't feel any surface irregularities when driving a fingernail inside:



The piston pin I will replace for sure, but I don't know if the way the bores are "eroded" on the piston, justify replacing the piston as well. I don't have the instruments required to measure the ID of the piston bores. This is the first time I am opening an engine. It just seems to me as if aluminum from the piston was "transfered" to the piston pin:
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #72660
BergDonk
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
I am *fairly* certain it is all stock, but I am beginning to wonder if perhaps the PO may have changed out either the main or pilot jet (which could possibly be the actual source of the problem). I didn't actually check them for sizing when I had the carb apart. The reason I say this is because *someone* has had this carb apart, as witnessed by the stripped out float bowl screws I replaced. Do you know if the jets are stamped with their respective sizes?

There'a also a couple other things to note. The idle on this bike seems a little high to me. This is with the idle adjustment backed all the way down. The second thing of note is there is a little bit of a "backfire" immediately after the bike is shut off. This has been consistent since I've gotten it running. I use the term "backfire" loosely, as it's more like a muffled "boom" sound, as opposed to the "pop pop pop" I get when the bike is running noticeably lean when cranking the air/fuel screw down. The sweet spot for the air/fuel mixture screw seems to be between about 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 open. Get past 3 turns or so, and the idle speed starts to creep upwards.

I will see about taking it back apart this evening and see if I can determine the sizes of both the main and pilot jet. I know for certain the needle is a stock part, as it is marked as such. Do you use the same plastic spacer from the stock needle with the KTM needle?
The jets normally have a number on them. Most of the time its correct, but sometimes its a furphy for some reason.

I have aset of jet drills and have learnt ove rthe years to gauge every jet to confirm the numbering. Every now and then its wrong. Either because someone drilled it, or it was wrongly stamped.

I also check my jet drills with a micrometer because the packaging isn't always right either, or they get mixed up, or.....

I have among others, a set of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30Pce-Met...item3f206f348c
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