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Old 01-09-2013, 07:51 PM   #72706
Emmbeedee
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
No. There is no bushing. That's pretty standard for Japanese motorcycles for at least the last 30-40 years. The pin runs directly in the rod.
Too bad. My old BSAs, Triumphs and Ducatis had 'em.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:53 PM   #72707
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
Too bad. My old BSAs, Triumphs and Ducatis had 'em.
Yeah, and those bushings were good for 10 maybe 20 thousand miles. There's a reason you don't see modern iron built that way anymore.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #72708
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yeah, and those bushings were good for 10 maybe 20 thousand miles. There's a reason you don't see modern iron built that way anymore.
Now that you mention it... I just remembered why I'm out of Vintage bikes. I prefer riding.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:56 PM   #72709
Mongle
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
No. There is no bushing. That's pretty standard for Japanese motorcycles for at least the last 30-40 years. The pin runs directly in the rod.
But, the end can be re-honed. Chances are it is on the small size and anyone who actually does rods wouldn't think twice about puting .0002-.0003" more clearance on the pin. And it will not hurt the life of the rod. It is a common and proven practice.

I don't own a $15,000 rod machine because reconditioning rods reduces "life/reliability". Matter of fact every NEW rod we get gets honed to our specifications- We have NEVER had a rod or pin failure in 20 years. I think that should count for something.

And wouldn't say that is from detonation until I actually measured it. Detonation does cause galling, but not normally there. It usually causes the hole to oblong in the up/down area.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #72710
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yeah, and those bushings were good for 10 maybe 20 thousand miles. There's a reason you don't see modern iron built that way anymore.
Once again wrong. MOST modern cars have bronze bushing rods now: Chevy LS motors, Ford Modular motors, Honda motors to name a few...
And in motorcycles the gsxrs, and busas.


Try again.

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Old 01-09-2013, 08:06 PM   #72711
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Is the vacuum port o-ring in place underneath the diaphragm cover?
Yep, and it's new.

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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
The smaller one on the right is a float bowl vent.
Thank you for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Vacuum leaks will generally be on the downstream side of the butterfly, which the airbox and airbox boot don't really have anything to do. What method have you been using to detect leaks?
Agreed. In my days as an auto mechanic, I used to spray brake cleaner around the suspect area(s). Temporary idle up generally is indicative of a leak. I will take a closer look at and around the top cap.

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The high idle and rise in rpm when the fuel screw is opened indicate that the pilot jet is not likely to be at fault, or at least not solely.
Agreed.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:10 PM   #72712
gofast1320
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jacked up petcock

May have been some funk in the carb needle seat. I changed the petcock out for one off of the OEM tank. Filled it with fuel and it did not leak. Hooked up the hoses and cranked it and started it up. Rode it around in the woods 2 miles and then back and forth up and down the driveway getting it up to 50 and backing off, then going again. Its running fine and no gas is running out of it. Thanks for all the tips and advice.Thinking about taking the carb off and rebuilding it makes me sick to my stomach.
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As it is not possible for the carb to overflow without fuel getting past the float valve, leaving the petcock in the PRI position cannot be the sole cause.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:00 AM   #72713
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
The galling in the middle (that is where the pin runs in the small end of the rod) indicates an oil film failure, which is usually caused by detonation.
Thanks! Wouldn't detonation leave other visible traces/marks as well? Also I don't know, what could possibly cause detonation in such a low compression engine?



Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
And you can be sure there is matching galling in the small end of the rod. Any repair that does not include replacing the connecting rod is going to have limited life/reliability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
But, the end can be re-honed. Chances are it is on the small size and anyone who actually does rods wouldn't think twice about puting .0002-.0003" more clearance on the pin. And it will not hurt the life of the rod. It is a common and proven practice.
Guys, this sounds very bad. Getting the rod out of the engine to have anything done to it would be major PITA for me, I really wasn't planning on splitting the crankcase (plus I don't have the special tools for this job).
I for sure will check how the small end looks, as soon as I have a chance.
Mongle, you mean even being given brand new stock rod, piston and pin, you would re-hone them to alter the stock clearances between the new items?
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:06 AM   #72714
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Once again wrong. MOST modern cars have bronze bushing rods now: Chevy LS motors, Ford Modular motors, Honda motors to name a few...
And in motorcycles the gsxrs, and busas.


Try again.
Actually you are wrong, can't speak for cars but I have rebuilt a Busa and I know for a fact it does not have bushings at the piston pin. It does have BEARINGS (OK, they're really bushings but that's not what they're called) where the con rod connects to the crank but you would have to be kinda of dense not to understand what he was talking about.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:46 AM   #72715
Mongle
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Actually you are wrong, can't speak for cars but I have rebuilt a Busa and I know for a fact it does not have bushings at the piston pin. It does have BEARINGS (OK, they're really bushings but that's not what they're called) where the con rod connects to the crank but you would have to be kinda of dense not to understand what he was talking about.
Well...Here are stock busa rods. You can clearly see the bushing in the small end.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-07-99-00-...sories&vxp=mtr
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:49 AM   #72716
Mongle
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Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Guys, this sounds very bad. Getting the rod out of the engine to have anything done to it would be major PITA for me, I really wasn't planning on splitting the crankcase (plus I don't have the special tools for this job).
I for sure will check how the small end looks, as soon as I have a chance.
Mongle, you mean even being given brand new stock rod, piston and pin, you would re-hone them to alter the stock clearances between the new items?

I completely understand. I say if the rod looks good: get a new pin and just have the piston honed. Obviously it was running when you took it apart so it is not like it is so screwed up it will never run again.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:55 AM   #72717
Albie
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Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Well...Here are stock busa rods. You can clearly see the bushing in the small end.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-07-99-00-...sories&vxp=mtr
Ahh I stand corrected. I guess since they are not replaceable I assumed they weren't there. I just put in new bearings and only replaced the rings on the pistons. The rods and pistons weren't replaced.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:04 AM   #72718
Carl Childers
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Question Shock Removal

The manual's not much help on this one, at least it seems more to describe the whole swing arm / linkage/ shock removal. It looks to me like I'd be removing the rear tire, and the air box and then just the top and bottom shock bolt, Is that correct or is there more to it?
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #72719
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
I completely understand. I say if the rod looks good: get a new pin and just have the piston honed. Obviously it was running when you took it apart so it is not like it is so screwed up it will never run again.
I'm starting to lean towards replacing the piston as well, for peace of mind...
Yes, the bike was running ok-ish, definitely it did not make any abnormal/suspect noises (only a nasty vibration that was discussed on this thread - pages 4662 to 4668 assuming 15 posts per page are shown). I initially blamed the counter balancer for this issue, I suspected it might have not been aligned correctly, however it proved not to be the case:



What I did notice while taking the top end apart is that one of the 4 main (long) bolts securing the cylinder and cylinder head was over-tightened. The cylinder gasket was leaking at the front of the engine, on the left side. I am beginning to suspect the Italian owner might have attempted to over-tighten the bolt in an attempt to "fix" the oil leak. The other 3 came off pretty easily, but this one corresponding to the leaky corner must have been tightened well over 100Nm, it was a real struggle to get it off.
Is it possible for such an incorrect tightening of just one of the 4 bolts to make the motor vibrate more than it should? (I think it could kinda throw the whole head assembly a bit out of alignment, on a microscopic scale). This particular bolt is directly accessible without taking anything off the bike.

deathu screwed with this post 01-10-2013 at 08:51 AM
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #72720
Lil' Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
The manual's not much help on this one, at least it seems more to describe the whole swing arm / linkage/ shock removal. It looks to me like I'd be removing the rear tire, and the air box and then just the top and bottom shock bolt, Is that correct or is there more to it?

No need to remove the rear tire. Lift bike, remove the air box & rubber intake, pull shock from top.
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