ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-11-2013, 05:10 AM   #74566
doug s.
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: md
Oddometer: 1,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
You either totally miss my point about needle position , find it irrelevant, or just enjoy confusing the issue.
if i correctly understand what derek is saying, it's that, if you shim a stock needle, you change the spring tension, which lowers the slide. if you get an adjustable needle and raise it w/o shimming, the needle is raised, but the spring tension remains the same; therefore you have no lowering of the slide.

of course, i could also be completely off the mark here!

doug s.
doug s. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 05:30 AM   #74567
Mambo Dave
Backyard Adventurer
 
Mambo Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: 11 ft. AMSL
Oddometer: 5,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
if i correctly understand what derek is saying, it's that, if you shim a stock needle, you change the spring tension, which lowers the slide. if you get an adjustable needle and raise it w/o shimming, the needle is raised, but the spring tension remains the same; therefore you have no lowering of the slide.

of course, i could also be completely off the mark here!

doug s.
You may be on to what he's saying.

But then it would hit the wall of what the suspension guys say about springs - that their rate and tension don't change by pre-load, which is what a shim would do, unless they were a progressive-rate spring and it took up some lower-rate squish of the spring.

Not that I care that much one way or the other - my DR650 with ProCycle's needle and kit seems to run just fine. When push comes to shove, and when the needle wears the slide, I'll buy one of the better carb options out there.
__________________
"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
RyanR
Mambo Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 06:34 AM   #74568
Rusty Rocket
Life behind "Bars"
 
Rusty Rocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Trying to leave CT
Oddometer: 9,723
Any of you people have a Wee Strom along with the DR650 willing to send me a PM about your observations as to the dirt ability of the Wee and the road abilty of the DR and how much of an overlap there is. I have some friends with WeeStroms at are tyring to talk me into adding one. I'd love to have more bikes, but is there enough difference to be worth it.

I thank you in advance for you thoughts. No need to clog up this thread with this talk, unless you feel it adds to the value of this thread.
__________________
on one side the sign it said "Private Road", but on the other side it didn't say nothin'
2009 DR650
..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
Rusty Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 06:45 AM   #74569
Rumlover
Ed
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Utah
Oddometer: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
if i correctly understand what derek is saying, it's that, if you shim a stock needle, you change the spring tension, which lowers the slide. if you get an adjustable needle and raise it w/o shimming, the needle is raised, but the spring tension remains the same; therefore you have no lowering of the slide.

of course, i could also be completely off the mark here!

doug s.

I will try to explain my position one last time (I really regret bringing it up at this point)

Assuming the carb is running on the needle circuit:
I understand that preloading the spring will cause the slide to be slightly lower then previous.
However the shimmed needle will still be raised in the slide. So unles the loss of slide height is greater then the amount the needle is raised by the shim, the needle will still be higher in the needle jet and flow more fuel.

Also the shimmed needle will always be higher in the needle jet for any given slide height. Motolabs explanation doesn't seem to think that is significant and makes it sound (to me) like the needle and slide are working independently. I know that wasn't his intent, but that's how it came across.

Anyway I was simply trying to point out that I don't think the loss of slide height is greater then the gain at the shimmed needle. And even if it is the flow through the needle jet will still be higher for the new slide height when compared to the same slide height for an unshimmed needle.

Hope that is clear as mud
Just one mans opinion

Rumlover screwed with this post 03-11-2013 at 07:22 AM
Rumlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 06:46 AM   #74570
ShadyRascal
Master of None
 
ShadyRascal's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: the Root, Western Montana
Oddometer: 6,845
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
__________________
Originally Posted by Javarilla

Evolution, or, natural selection, has nothing to do with better.

It merely weeds out what is no longer suitable for the given context.


Originally Posted by Dragoon

I would rather be on my motorcycle thinking about God than in church thinking about my motorcycle.
ShadyRascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 06:49 AM   #74571
Emmbeedee
Procrastinators
 
Emmbeedee's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Near Ottawa, ON, Canada
Oddometer: 9,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I will try to explain my position one last ime (I really regret bringing it up at this point)

Assuming the carb is running on the needle circuit:
I understand that preloading the spring will cause the slide to be slightly lower then previous.
However the needle will still be raised in the slide. So unles the loss of slide height is greater then the amount the needle is raised by the shim, the needle will still be higher in the needle jet and flow more fuel.

Also the shimmed needle will always be higher in the needle jet for any given slide height. Motolabs explanation doesn't seem to think that is significant and makes it sound (to me) like the needle and slide are working independently. I know that wasn't his intent, but that's how it came across.

Anyway I was simply trying to point out that I don't think the loss of slide height is greater then the gain at the needle.

Hope that is clear as mud
Just one mans opinion
What kind of oil are you running in it?




















__________________
Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
Want to know more about the Garmin VIRB? See here.
"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
Emmbeedee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 07:02 AM   #74572
Rusty Rocket
Life behind "Bars"
 
Rusty Rocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Trying to leave CT
Oddometer: 9,723




Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?




















__________________
on one side the sign it said "Private Road", but on the other side it didn't say nothin'
2009 DR650
..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
Rusty Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 07:05 AM   #74573
Kommando
Beastly Adventurer
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post


pew! pew! pew!

Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 07:10 AM   #74574
Rumlover
Ed
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Utah
Oddometer: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?


The slippery stuff works best!
Rumlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:16 AM   #74575
dman
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Oddometer: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
I have both also, and concur with this. It also depends on your skill. The weight, limited suspension travel, and tires (though that can be changed) intimidate me from doing anything too rough on my Wee. Based on what I've seen on various Wee threads, others can ride these bikes almost anywhere.

-dman
dman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:26 AM   #74576
TRAVELGUY
Old Traveler
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Georgetown, In / Costa Rica
Oddometer: 716
+1 There is very little overlap of performance. I like both bikes very much. Their just different tools for different needs. If I could only own one bike it would probably be the Wee Strom but I find myself riding my DR the most.

TravelGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
__________________
TRAVELGUY
DL1000 '05 black
DL 650 '06 Red
DR650 '07
.
TRAVELGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:40 AM   #74577
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 9,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?




















Rum oil.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:03 AM   #74578
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I will try to explain my position one last time (I really regret bringing it up at this point.
Both Rumlover and Derek are two of the more valuable contributors to our little DR thread. I see both points of view ... but must admit it gets a bit confusing after a while. I don't have enough experience to even have a clue who is correct ... I've never worked in the Factories in Japan to observe their running cutaway models they use for R&D ... (they have 'em guys!)

I'd hate to lose either guy over a minor disagreement.

I have a question for Derek:
Do you own a DR650? Ever ridden one? Worked on one?
If not I'd love to see you get hold of a DR and spend some time on it, riding and tuning.

It's a VERY different bike to an KTM 640 ... and I don't think we can assume that Carb settings that work for a 640 will work on the DR650.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:30 AM   #74579
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
Pretty much sums up my take on both bikes. A set up Wee will do most all Fire roads ... even some two track. But for Desert riding, rocks, steep UP or Down ... not so good ... and not close to the DR650. It can be a liability off road do to how poorly the Wee will crash. The DR650, as most know, is pretty crash proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Any of you people have a Wee Strom along with the DR650 willing to send me a PM about your observations as to the dirt ability of the Wee and the road abilty of the DR and how much of an overlap there is. I have some friends with WeeStroms at are tyring to talk me into adding one. I'd love to have more bikes, but is there enough difference to be worth it.

I thank you in advance for you thoughts. No need to clog up this thread with this talk, unless you feel it adds to the value of this thread.
I think it's relevant here as we're comparing directly the WEE vs. DR650 ... and of course both are Suzuki's.

Two of six DR650 riders in my riding group ride both DR650 and a Wee Strom. I've ridden several Wee Stroms ... spent days in the saddle both ON and OFF road. The reason the one guy got a DR was when I swapped out with him in Nevada on dirt roads: My DR for his Wee. He was sold. Bought a DR a week later. This is a guy with a NEW 1200 Yam Tenere', a HD and a $27K Gold Wing! Suffice to say ... price is no object.

His Wee had TKC80 tires front and rear. Makes a big difference ... especially the front. Stock street tires on the Wee off road make things a bit scary ... as the front can wash out easily, the TKC's instill a fair bit of confidence ... but the bike does not steer at all like a DR.

The Wee packs up more easily than the DR650. Strong, nothing breaks.
The Wee has potential for more comfort on LD rides.
The Wee, IMHO, is not an ideal Two Up bike ... here the DL1000 is far better. At altitude or riding into a stiff head wind ... the Wee is short on power and torque.
The Wee fuel economy can plummet riding above 80 mph or into a wind. Down into the high 30's.
The Wee needs suspension up grades similar to the DR650. Massive help.
The Wee is a good back road bike but can't match the DR650 on rougher, twistier, debris covered or wet roads. The DR rules on the super tight, technical roads ... but the Wee is not far off the pace at all.

Cross country the Wee is less tiring doing 400 mile days than the DR650.
But a well set up DR650 will really surprise most NON believers. With a good seat, shield, proper drive line set up with new Cush Rubbers, fresh sprockets and chain, the DR is very ride-able for a single. But a single it is ...

If long distance Street rides/Two Up are in the Cards ... I'd rather have the DL1000. Good used ones are as cheap or cheaper than the Wee Strom.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:31 AM   #74580
TIGERRIDER007
Beastly Adventurer
 
TIGERRIDER007's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Acworth, GA
Oddometer: 1,091
so from oil to tires...

Okay, looking to run either a Bridgestone M22 or a Dunlop D606, any one shine more than the other? Is the Bridgestone M22 DOT approved?

Sorry....to bring up the question.....need a good dirt tire.

Thanks!
__________________
Scott
06' Triumph Tiger (my lifer)
05' Husqvarna TE510 (yeller and blue)
TIGERRIDER007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015