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Old 03-11-2013, 07:49 AM   #74581
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I will try to explain my position one last ime (I really regret bringing it up at this point)

Assuming the carb is running on the needle circuit:
I understand that preloading the spring will cause the slide to be slightly lower then previous.
However the needle will still be raised in the slide. So unles the loss of slide height is greater then the amount the needle is raised by the shim, the needle will still be higher in the needle jet and flow more fuel.

Also the shimmed needle will always be higher in the needle jet for any given slide height. Motolabs explanation doesn't seem to think that is significant and makes it sound (to me) like the needle and slide are working independently. I know that wasn't his intent, but that's how it came across.

Anyway I was simply trying to point out that I don't think the loss of slide height is greater then the gain at the needle.

Hope that is clear as mud
Just one mans opinion
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #74582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?




















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Old 03-11-2013, 08:05 AM   #74583
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post


pew! pew! pew!

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:10 AM   #74584
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?


The slippery stuff works best!
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:16 AM   #74585
dman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
I have both also, and concur with this. It also depends on your skill. The weight, limited suspension travel, and tires (though that can be changed) intimidate me from doing anything too rough on my Wee. Based on what I've seen on various Wee threads, others can ride these bikes almost anywhere.

-dman
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:26 AM   #74586
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+1 There is very little overlap of performance. I like both bikes very much. Their just different tools for different needs. If I could only own one bike it would probably be the Wee Strom but I find myself riding my DR the most.

TravelGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:40 AM   #74587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
What kind of oil are you running in it?




















Rum oil.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:03 AM   #74588
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I will try to explain my position one last time (I really regret bringing it up at this point.
Both Rumlover and Derek are two of the more valuable contributors to our little DR thread. I see both points of view ... but must admit it gets a bit confusing after a while. I don't have enough experience to even have a clue who is correct ... I've never worked in the Factories in Japan to observe their running cutaway models they use for R&D ... (they have 'em guys!)

I'd hate to lose either guy over a minor disagreement.

I have a question for Derek:
Do you own a DR650? Ever ridden one? Worked on one?
If not I'd love to see you get hold of a DR and spend some time on it, riding and tuning.

It's a VERY different bike to an KTM 640 ... and I don't think we can assume that Carb settings that work for a 640 will work on the DR650.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #74589
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyRascal View Post
I have both and love the smoothness of the Wee on the road. The Wee is fine on gravel roads but any kind of mountain fire road with tighter corners the Wee gets to be a pig real quick.

Overall I'd say the DR is a better street bike than the Wee is a dirt bike. It's just more of a comfort thing for me with the Wee, I travel longer distances pretty regularly. But whenever it gets dirty, I want to be on the DR, and some roads or trails I'll just avoid with the Wee. All depends on your terrain and length of trip I guess.
Pretty much sums up my take on both bikes. A set up Wee will do most all Fire roads ... even some two track. But for Desert riding, rocks, steep UP or Down ... not so good ... and not close to the DR650. It can be a liability off road do to how poorly the Wee will crash. The DR650, as most know, is pretty crash proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Any of you people have a Wee Strom along with the DR650 willing to send me a PM about your observations as to the dirt ability of the Wee and the road abilty of the DR and how much of an overlap there is. I have some friends with WeeStroms at are tyring to talk me into adding one. I'd love to have more bikes, but is there enough difference to be worth it.

I thank you in advance for you thoughts. No need to clog up this thread with this talk, unless you feel it adds to the value of this thread.
I think it's relevant here as we're comparing directly the WEE vs. DR650 ... and of course both are Suzuki's.

Two of six DR650 riders in my riding group ride both DR650 and a Wee Strom. I've ridden several Wee Stroms ... spent days in the saddle both ON and OFF road. The reason the one guy got a DR was when I swapped out with him in Nevada on dirt roads: My DR for his Wee. He was sold. Bought a DR a week later. This is a guy with a NEW 1200 Yam Tenere', a HD and a $27K Gold Wing! Suffice to say ... price is no object.

His Wee had TKC80 tires front and rear. Makes a big difference ... especially the front. Stock street tires on the Wee off road make things a bit scary ... as the front can wash out easily, the TKC's instill a fair bit of confidence ... but the bike does not steer at all like a DR.

The Wee packs up more easily than the DR650. Strong, nothing breaks.
The Wee has potential for more comfort on LD rides.
The Wee, IMHO, is not an ideal Two Up bike ... here the DL1000 is far better. At altitude or riding into a stiff head wind ... the Wee is short on power and torque.
The Wee fuel economy can plummet riding above 80 mph or into a wind. Down into the high 30's.
The Wee needs suspension up grades similar to the DR650. Massive help.
The Wee is a good back road bike but can't match the DR650 on rougher, twistier, debris covered or wet roads. The DR rules on the super tight, technical roads ... but the Wee is not far off the pace at all.

Cross country the Wee is less tiring doing 400 mile days than the DR650.
But a well set up DR650 will really surprise most NON believers. With a good seat, shield, proper drive line set up with new Cush Rubbers, fresh sprockets and chain, the DR is very ride-able for a single. But a single it is ...

If long distance Street rides/Two Up are in the Cards ... I'd rather have the DL1000. Good used ones are as cheap or cheaper than the Wee Strom.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:31 AM   #74590
TIGERRIDER007
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so from oil to tires...

Okay, looking to run either a Bridgestone M22 or a Dunlop D606, any one shine more than the other? Is the Bridgestone M22 DOT approved?

Sorry....to bring up the question.....need a good dirt tire.

Thanks!
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #74591
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A question for Derek (Motolab)

Is it your opinion that a non US needle can be dialed in to work better than the DJ needle when the airbox has been opened up?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:50 AM   #74592
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
if i correctly understand what derek is saying, it's that, if you shim a stock needle, you change the spring tension, which lowers the slide. if you get an adjustable needle and raise it w/o shimming, the needle is raised, but the spring tension remains the same; therefore you have no lowering of the slide.
Hello Doug,

Your comments are right on the mark, except for one very small detail. I would not use the words "spring tension", simply because the phrase is sometimes used to refer to the rate, and there is no change in rate, but only in preload.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:57 AM   #74593
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DR vs Wee. Grifter outlined it pretty well. I've done fire roads/truck trails on the Wee and like any bike, you can push it to whatever limits you think it will endure. I get nervous about all the plastic if it ever goes down...kinda like the new KLR. That's a lot of money hangin' out there for rocks to eat.

I use the Wee for 2 Up from sea level to about 5000 feet. I've never had a power problem. It's a lot nicer on the superslab as expected. Back roads are a blast and having a fuel injected twin doesn't hurt.

My DR is my go to for most of my riding. If I had to commute on freeway, I'd want the Wee. If you have the ability and like riding your friends, go for it.

Wee vs Vee has been beat up on Stromtroopers forever. If you want the extra power & slightly less reliable, go Vee.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:19 PM   #74594
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
So unles the loss of slide height is greater then the amount the needle is raised by the shim, the needle will still be higher in the needle jet and flow more fuel.
For the needle to not be any higher in the emulsion tube for a given intersection of throttle position and rpm, the loss in slide height must simply be equal to the thickness of the shim (not greater).
Quote:
Also the shimmed needle will always be higher in the needle jet for any given slide height.
Correct!
Quote:
Motolabs explanation doesn't seem to think that is significant and makes it sound (to me) like the needle and slide are working independently.
It is only significant if the loss in slide height is less than the thickness of the shim.
Quote:
I know that wasn't his intent, but that's how it came across.
My intent was to at least make clear what separate and distinct factors are at work, and how they relate to one another.
Quote:
Anyway I was simply trying to point out that I don't think the loss of slide height is greater then the gain at the shimmed needle.
It is not likely to be greater, but could be equal.
Quote:
And even if it is the flow through the needle jet will still be higher for the new slide height when compared to the same slide height for an unshimmed needle.
Again, only if the loss in slide height is less than the shim height. If the loss in slide height equals the shim thickness, then any richening of the mixture comes from a loss in slide height alone. If the loss in slide height is less than the thickness of the shim, then the change in mixture will come from an amalgam of loss in slide height and increased needle height.

One important factor to consider is that when the slide is lower for a given intersection of throttle position and rpm, the slide may well now cause greater intake restriction, and an attendant loss in HP.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #74595
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Do you own a DR650? Ever ridden one? Worked on one?
The answer to all three questions is no.
Quote:
If not I'd love to see you get hold of a DR and spend some time on it, riding and tuning.
I agree.
Quote:
It's a VERY different bike to an KTM 640 ... and I don't think we can assume that Carb settings that work for a 640 will work on the DR650.
I have never assumed that. In fact, quite to the contrary.

Regards,

Derek
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