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Old 03-12-2013, 12:54 PM   #74656
Adv Grifter
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Those links don't reveal specifics regards mods to individual bikes. Did they all have Open Air Boxes? And what jetting did they have? State of tune/condition of the bikes? In most cases pinging results from the owner either lugging the bike ... or doing a poor job of tuning/jetting/mods. Also, in some cases the owners are literally "hearing things" ... and don't really know what Pinging, Detonation sounds like. A flopping chain can fool a lot of riders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I didn't say anything about losing compression.I was referring to the ignition timing. I was also not saying that it might be off. What I was trying to get at is that it could be advanced enough in stock form that the increase in cylinder pressures resultant from opening up the intake could lead to detonation.
Fair enough. But are you saying stock compression is too high to handle the open air box mod? And timing may be too advanced to handle it? If that was the case then, IMHO, we'd have many more reports of severe detonation from guys who'd opened up the Air Box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
but realize that once you are able to hear it, it's pretty severe.The FMF wold have increased detonation resistance over stock.Do you have dyno charts and EGA data to share with us?
Regards,

Derek
The fact is most guys wouldn't know pinging from chain clatter .... but yes, once you hear it ... you've got problems. Do you believe my bike would have made it to 50,000 miles? ... mostly all on regular gas ... if severe detonation, or even MINOR detonation existed I would think my piston would be toast ... and bits of Alu would have shown up on my plugs before that.
Lots can be revealed from spark plugs.
I have no Dyno Charts. But maybe you can share with us any Dyno Charts you've done ... in your shop .... on customer bikes?
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #74657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Mine smokes on start some times. I wonder if it is gas that has gotten "old". After it warms up no more for the rest of the day.

I have 20K miles on mine and it could be valves seals, but the PO was a Suzuki mechanic and he did a piston and rings and might have done some work on the head, so I just deal with it. It isn't every time and it really doesn't bother me because I had 2 strokes for the first 40 years of riding.
Try back-blowing your spark arrestor. If it's not done for a long time, carbon deposits build up and come out like light blue oil smoke, but with a funny (not oil) odor.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #74658
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There is a bolt/plug on the stock muffler,undo it for a few.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #74659
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Carb Talk

It's 72 degrees and Sunny here is Sacramento right now. I should be riding not stuck here at work, eating lunch and reading about jetting and pre-detonation

I have 41,000 + plus miles on my 2006 DR and with most of those miles with an missing side cover. The jetting is slightly rich by my reckoning (plug color) and the bike runs great 45 to 50 mpg. Closer to 45 in winter, 50 in summer - darn alcohol contaminated fuel.

I do run premium fuel, because after 2 or so tanks of regular fuel my bike seems to "cut out" like its running out of gas, when cruising at 50 MPH of so. Does not do that under full throttle or at lower speeds

Problem goes away as soon as I switch back to premium - I think I has to do with the alcohol in the the fuel. Maybe lean at 1/2 throttle?
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #74660
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Hello DR650'ers. I don't have one yet, but I am thinking about buying a used one I found for sale. I was wondering if someone could give me an idea on how much power they have, with a TM40 Mikuni and GSXR exhaust? I don't mean numbers, but by the seatofyourpants dyno. Also how well do they run at very low speeds through sticky stuff?
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #74661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Those links don't reveal specifics regards mods to individual bikes. Did they all have Open Air Boxes? And what jetting did they have? State of tune/condition of the bikes? In most cases pinging results from the owner either lugging the bike ... or doing a poor job of tuning/jetting/mods.
Previously, you said, "Hundreds of DR riders have opened the air box with no hint of detonation ... or any other problems.". Now you are asking about state of tune. They either had opened airboxes or not. If so, then the pinging could have been brought on by the opened airbox. If not, then the situation would be worse once the airbox was opened up.
Quote:
Also, in some cases the owners are literally "hearing things" ... and don't really know what Pinging, Detonation sounds like. A flopping chain can fool a lot of riders.
I'm not sure how you can argue that hundreds of DR riders are astute enough to know for a fact that their engine is not suffering from detonation, while simultaneously being capable of hearing things and not really knowing what pinging and detonation sound like.
Quote:
But are you saying stock compression is too high to handle the open air box mod?
I said no such thing. I said you want to be sure that it is not.
Quote:
And timing may be too advanced to handle it?
Again, I'm saying that you want to be sure that it is not.
Quote:
If that was the case then, IMHO, we'd have many more reports of severe detonation from guys who'd opened up the Air Box.
We have at least seven reports in the links. It can be quite harmful well before it is audible, and it is possible for it to happen without being aware that it has.
Quote:
Do you believe my bike would have made it to 50,000 miles? ... mostly all on regular gas ... if severe detonation, or even MINOR detonation existed I would think my piston would be toast ... and bits of Alu would have shown up on my plugs before that.
One of the first things that happens is that the severe pressure rises on top of the piston cause the oil film between the wrist pin and its bores to fail, leading to galling. Another is that the pressure waves punch through the vapor barrier, leaving the oil film on the cylinder wall unprotected from normal combustion (much less uncontrolled combustion), causing it to burn off. The severe pressure rises present during detonation simultaneously push the rings into the cylinder wall much harder than normally, which cause cylinder wall and ring scuffing. Your bike could have made it 50,000 miles with detonation. The piston does not have to be destroyed as a result, nor do bits of aluminum have to appear on the spark plug.
Quote:
I have no Dyno Charts. But maybe you can share with us any Dyno Charts you've done ... in your shop .... on customer bikes?
See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/search. Select "graphs" from the category drop down. Select a make model and year, and/or key words.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:22 PM   #74662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
There is a bolt/plug on the stock muffler,undo it for a few.
mine got knocked off. probably by a rock coming off the Kenda TrakMasterII. It is an epoxy patch now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MADurstewitz View Post
Try back-blowing your spark arrestor. If it's not done for a long time, carbon deposits build up and come out like light blue oil smoke, but with a funny (not oil) odor.
that's probably what it is. I hadn't even thought of that. That's why I hang around here.

maybe I'll put the SuperTrapp back on and see if it still happens.
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Rusty Rocket screwed with this post 03-12-2013 at 02:27 PM
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #74663
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Those RSE's are pretty cool and maybe worth having.

An RSE is exactly what I am looking at, a '93 RSEU to be more exact. I'm on a budget and it looks perfect for my needs (mostly asphalt, a tiny little offroad). Also, since I am mostly going asphalt, then the 50lbs might not be so bad for me, and the fairing might come in useful. Also, I understand the pre96 models have a little more torque, which may be useful for around town.
What about the mechanical differences? People talk about the chain counterbalancing system being terrible, I have no idea or experience.
Thanks for the answer, hope to get a little more insight from you guys.
Thanks, Chris
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #74664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rand0mlychrisUK View Post
An RSE is exactly what I am looking at, a '93 RSEU to be more exact. I'm on a budget and it looks perfect for my needs (mostly asphalt, a tiny little offroad). Also, since I am mostly going asphalt, then the 50lbs might not be so bad for me, and the fairing might come in useful. Also, I understand the pre96 models have a little more torque, which may be useful for around town.
What about the mechanical differences? People talk about the chain counterbalancing system being terrible, I have no idea or experience.
Thanks for the answer, hope to get a little more insight from you guys.
Thanks, Chris
I don't know if you can get a KLR 650 where you are, but here in the U.S., it would be a better choice. They were the same for 20 years leading up to 2008 when the changed the body. It's electric start and I believe the Suzuki is kick start. It looks a lot like a KLR at first glance too. Accessories are much more available for the KAW. Maybe in Europe the RSE was more widely available.

Ask here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61568

These guys will know a lot more about the engine at least.

The 1996 and newer DR650 is easier to get parts and accessories for also. Unless you are determined to have that bike, you will likely be better off with a new generation DR or a KLR.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #74665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/search. Select "graphs" from the category drop down. Select a make model and year, and/or key words.
In the Suzuki category - DRZ400, 1500 Intruder, 1200 Bandit, GXSR750, GSX1100, C50 Boulevard.

No DR650.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #74666
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
No DR650.
I've already said many times that I have not tuned one.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #74667
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yo Russ,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post

Thing is, my Penton has been hiding in the basement and only comes out every 5 years or so for a vintage event. The TS185 needs to be cleaned up an made running (been gonna do that job for about 5 years now)

I figure if I sell them to raise some cash, I could add a bike that i will actually use.
Russ, if you ever sell that Penton w/o giving me first cut, I will come up there and beat you with a 2x4!
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #74668
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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
When I go from a 15t to a 16t, it raises my comfortable cruising about 8 mph; from 67-8 to 75.

I'm guessing 14t to 15t will be about the same, from whatever speed you're willing to run the 14t.
I like to run mine to turn over just a little faster than you do, ER70S-2. I find cruising on the freeway at about 75 (GPS speed, almost 80 on the speedo) is comfortable with the 15T stock sprocket.

With the 14T I prefer to go 67-68 GPS (73 speedo).

I just did several back to back highway days on my way south at 70-75 all day. It always surprises me how smoothly and stably the DR650 does on the big roads doing moderately high mileages. Gotta love this bike.

.............shu
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:31 PM   #74669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MADurstewitz View Post
Try back-blowing your spark arrestor. If it's not done for a long time, carbon deposits build up and come out like light blue oil smoke, but with a funny (not oil) odor.
not sure there is one on my gxr can. or are you referring to some other spark arrestor?

bike ran fine in november, and started with no trouble at all in january, although i did not ride it in january.

also, it may be possible that the oil is contaminated with fuel. read on thumpertalk that if the fuel valve leaks while in the on position, fuel can contaminate the oil. well, when i pulled the tank off the other day, i noticed that the fuel valve was leaking. SHYTE! leaving things as is always leads to problems, eh? guess, i'll be changing the oil and filter too.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #74670
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another piece of the puzzle to make sure this is done right.
-adjust the chain properly and make sure the left and the right side adjuster cams are on the same notches.
-then mark the left drive side with a marker at that notch so you can get back in a flash with tire chains
-then check the alignment of the chain & sprockets
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14/71/995/4876/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Chain-Alignment-Tool.aspx?SiteID=Google_PLA995&WT.mc_ID=10012&esvt=0-GOUSC&esvadt=9-0-3886819-1&esvaid=30548&kw={keyword}&gclid=COvPzOWe-LUCFaUWMgodSFQAoA
this tools clamps to the rear sprocket and you look down the rod to the front of the bike/front sprocket. it must be parallel with the chain
-if not the sprockets are not aligned and will wear out the chain faster.
adjust the right ride adjuster to align properly. the left stays the same as that's for proper slack. the right side aligns. mine was off 2 slots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Obard:
Use a ratchet strap across the seat to get the 3 points aligned like BD's diagram. Pad the seat so the strap doesn't cut the seat cover. The bike will roll with the suspension pulled down (strapped), so check the tightness in several places.

When you're doing this, the chain slack will NOT be 1.2"-1.8". You just want free movement (no binding). And too loose is better than too tight!!

Be careful, as the kickstand might be too long and tip the bike over on the right side.

Like this (my shock is disconnected in this pic, don't pull it down this far).

Better pic, pulled down too far:
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