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Old 03-18-2013, 10:14 AM   #74911
SoPaRider
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Trying to make an educated decision as to just what I should or shouldn't do to my box stock 2009 DR650SE (air box, exhaust system, carb wise) after reading thousands of posts on this thread and other websites leaves me wondering just what and who I should believe. Once I get the bike sorted out and prepped for a North American ride that will have me riding at elevations between 282' below sea level in Badwater Basin, Death Valley, CA to 14,130' above sea level at Mount Evans, CO I should find out for myself. Going with my own experiences with a fully loaded '99 KLR650 that only had a K&N Stage 1 jet kit and K&N air filter installed, I was able to ride from sea level to the top of Pikes Peak by only turning up the idle a bit on the way up and then turning it back down at the bottom of Pikes Peak, otherwise I never touched the carb and it ran great. I blew the motor on my '96 DR350S in May of 2010 after 38,000 miles, it had the same set up as the KLR650 and although it never saw elevations above 4,000', it always ran fine. The motor now has a Kientech Engineering 441 big bore kit, oversized head pipe, muffler mod, pumper carb, air box mod and it's never ran better, but it came with a cost and if I had to do it again I would have left everything stock! Just sayin.

Jeff
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #74912
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by kbuckey View Post
Hmm. I guess I'll fess up . My bike has just under 64000 miles on it and, well, er, the carb has never been opened up. Yeah, nothing. Dead stock. Including muffler, air box, filter. Yeah, it's always had some issues - issues which change depending on whether I'm riding at sea level or at over 10,000 feet. But all in all it runs pretty good.

Lately I've noticed the gas mileage has gone up a bit, can't figure that one out, maybe it's finally broken in?

Sooooo, being firmly in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I've just left it alone. But if I did open the carb up and completely rebuilt it, I know I wouldn't want to mess with it much. What stock parts should I replace with stock, and what with aftermarket? Seems like the overseas needle is one change, but then I'm going to want to tinker with it and I fear the nose of the camel is coming under the tent!
It's probably more expensive to buy Suzuki Carb parts than buying a low miles stock Carb from someone here. Lots of guys go to the Pumper Carbs and sell off their stock Carbs ... most pretty cheap. Check out Flea Market, always one or two for sale. I paid $75 for a near virgin stock Carb that came with a NEW DJ needle and extra jets. I'm at 50K miles ... but only 20K on my latest Carb. Next year I'll buy another. I keep the old one for back up ... even though it does show some wear ... it still works OK.

Congrats on the 64K ! Very impressive.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 03-18-2013 at 07:34 PM
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:44 AM   #74913
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoPaRider View Post
Trying to make an educated decision as to just what I should or shouldn't do to my box stock 2009 DR650SE (air box, exhaust system, carb wise) after reading thousands of posts on this thread and other websites leaves me wondering just what and who I should believe. Once I get the bike sorted out and prepped for a North American ride that will have me riding at elevations between 282' below sea level in Badwater Basin, Death Valley, CA to 14,130' above sea level at Mount Evans, CO I should find out for myself. Going with my own experiences with a fully loaded '99 KLR650 that only had a K&N Stage 1 jet kit and K&N air filter installed, I was able to ride from sea level to the top of Pikes Peak by only turning up the idle a bit on the way up and then turning it back down at the bottom of Pikes Peak, otherwise I never touched the carb and it ran great. I blew the motor on my '96 DR350S in May of 2010 after 38,000 miles, it had the same set up as the KLR650 and although it never saw elevations above 4,000', it always ran fine. The motor now has a Kientech Engineering 441 big bore kit, oversized head pipe, muffler mod, pumper carb, air box mod and it's never ran better, but it came with a cost and if I had to do it again I would have left everything stock! Just sayin.

Jeff
hey Jeff,
I tried every possible combo, from dead stock, then using shims, different jetting, Snorkel no Snorkel, drilled slide and on and on and on. I did this for a year.

None of it worked well. What did work was cutting open the Air Box top, going with the DJ needle/Jets, Twin Air Filter, and jetting it quite lean for Sea Level operation. Most DR riders tend to jet too rich.

DR650 is set up Super Lean from the factory ... so you should follow that model when you jet with open air box and different needle. If jetted properly not only will you have good performance and power (due to more and better Air Flow), your MPG will be good as well. WIN WIN!
KEEP IT LEAN.

The best news is the bike should run OK up to about 12,000 ft. Above that you will get severe power loss ... as all bikes will experience.

YOU DO NEED an EXTENDED FUEL SCREW! The Fuel Screw allows minor adjustments as you climb. Leaning it out as you go UP will maintain good starting and smooth Idle and better MPG. YES ... the bike will lose power ... ALL bikes lose power as you climb higher, F.I. or not. Physics.

If when at extreme altitude your bike is running too rich you could go leaner on the needle clip or change main jet to smaller jet. I've not had to do this. My bike does lose power but overall, starts, runs and idles OK. Once down below 5K ft. you'll get your power back!

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 03-18-2013 at 07:37 PM
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:57 AM   #74914
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
LOL, Thanks Commando!

Wish I had read this earlier, but just as you said - it was important to have brakes for commuting immediately, so I called up Cycle Gear and... they were OPEN!

On a Sunday when my supposedly "real" motorcycle store - Riva Motorsports / Dealership - is closed on Sundays.

They confirmed they had Galfger brake pads in stock, and while I do realize that many brake pads aren't even as good as the stock ones, these Galfers seem just like stock (not better, and I haven't tried them in the rain yet, but they're fine), and they were available.

I threw the brake back together, rode over (carefully) and then installed the pads right there in Cycle Gear's parking lot. Bedded in the pads there in a huge and nearly empty parking lot, then rode the 14 miles home.

Again, had I read what you just posted I would have picked up the wiring connectors as well, but thank's a ton.

I am not from Florida, so I do use my turn signals a lot (and rely on them as a safety factor), so I can't really go for LED strips on the rear if they don't stick out and away from the bike. LED strips on the front may work if they're bright enough.
More Noob mistakes? Obviously you've ignored your bike for quite a while and never even looked at the pads?? Why?

My guess is your Rotor (Brake Disc) is toast. With pads that thin, not only are you ruining the rotor, the pads heats up so quickly and get SO HOT that NO braking is going to happen. So count on a new rotor and obviously ... new Pads too.

I would go with stock Suzuki Rotor... but what do I know? (buy from someone parting out)

The other thing you have ignored ... is you never bleed your brakes. The DR650 likes FRESH BRAKE FLUID. I flush out ALL old fluid and add new, fresh fluid 3 times a year. Also, important to keep caliper pistons clean and polished up ... or they will bind and stick. Once a year for this.

Rotors need to be lightly sanded (I use Steel Wool) about twice a year, and then cleaned monthly with Brake Clean (or similar).

PADS:
Most riders go with EBC pads because they are Cheap and available.
Nothing is as good as the stock Nissin pads. I've tried several sets of EBC, Braking, Galfer and SBS. NONE are as good as stock Nissin pads. Expensive but they work well ... don't glaze over, provide strong braking.

The DR650 will never match a sport bike for braking power, but if all of the above is done it will be better than your current bike.
And DON'T forget your rear brake. On the DR you need to use BOTH brakes hard to stop quickly.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:58 AM   #74915
garnaro
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Then it is too rich. I know you said off idle, but what is the exact opening the problem occurs at (1/6, 1/8, or 1/4)?What did the rebuild consist of?I consider the jet needle in the ProCycle kit to be unsuitable because it has an unfavorable shape (which will give a less uniform mixture strength across various openings & rpm than other needles), does not use the white spacer (which prevents the needle from being able to pivot out of the way as the slide guide wears, accelerating emulsion tube wear), and is made out of stainless steel (which will in itself not wear, but accelerates emulsion tube wear).I consider drilling the slide to be a bad idea because it radically accelerates slide guide (and therefore emulsion tube, slide & jet needle) wear, and testing on a KTM revealed that there is an HP advantage to using an undrilled single lift hole slide.

Regards,

Derek
This sounds important. Any idea how extreme this might be? Wondering if I've shorted the life of my carb parts by drilling the slide.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:59 AM   #74916
garnaro
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Then it is too rich. I know you said off idle, but what is the exact opening the problem occurs at (1/6, 1/8, or 1/4)?What did the rebuild consist of?I consider the jet needle in the ProCycle kit to be unsuitable because it has an unfavorable shape (which will give a less uniform mixture strength across various openings & rpm than other needles), does not use the white spacer (which prevents the needle from being able to pivot out of the way as the slide guide wears, accelerating emulsion tube wear), and is made out of stainless steel (which will in itself not wear, but accelerates emulsion tube wear).I consider drilling the slide to be a bad idea because it radically accelerates slide guide (and therefore emulsion tube, slide & jet needle) wear, and testing on a KTM revealed that there is an HP advantage to using an undrilled single lift hole slide.

Regards,

Derek

This sounds important. Any idea how extreme this might be? Wondering if I've shorted the life of my carb parts by drilling the slide.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:06 AM   #74917
motolab
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Originally Posted by kbuckey View Post
Yeah, it's always had some issues - issues which change depending on whether I'm riding at sea level or at over 10,000 feet.
What issues have those been?
Quote:
Lately I've noticed the gas mileage has gone up a bit, can't figure that one out, maybe it's finally broken in?
Do you mean it has improved?
Quote:
Sooooo, being firmly in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I've just left it alone.
Makes sense, except at 64K miles, the slide guide emulsion tube, slide and and perhaps the jet needle will be worn out.
Quote:
But if I did open the carb up and completely rebuilt it, I know I wouldn't want to mess with it much. What stock parts should I replace with stock, and what with aftermarket?
I would use all OEM parts.
Quote:
Seems like the overseas needle is one change, but then I'm going to want to tinker with it and I fear the nose of the camel is coming under the tent!
You could leave it all stock, save jetting it correctly.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #74918
motolab
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Originally Posted by GaryUnguided View Post
This sounds important. Any idea how extreme this might be?
What is the "this" you are referring to?
Quote:
Wondering if I've shorted the life of my carb parts by drilling the slide.
Yes. Going to two lift holes halves the life of the slide guide, emulsion tube, slide and possibly jet needle. Enlarging two lift holes to .125" halves the life again.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #74919
motolab
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
DR650 is set up Super Lean from the factory ... so you should follow that model when you jet with open air box and different needle. If jetted properly not only will you have good performance and power (due to more and better Air Flow), your MPG will be good as well. WIN WIN!
KEEP IT LEAN.
Considering the multiple reports of pinging, at least some of which were on a completely stock bike, I would not recommend opening the airbox and jetting lean unless I was able to verify that the engine was in a safe zone with regards to detonation.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:07 PM   #74920
MADurstewitz
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Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Do you block airflow through the oil cooler? Do you run a thinner oil? Inquiring minds want to know, please.
You'll ride at temps I wouldn't consider. Anything lower than 55*, I'll likely watch tv.
No. Since my ride is all highway and at a pretty good clip to avoid being run over, I leave the 20/50 synthetic in it. No ill effects. I do let it warm up for quite a while while I strap my back pack to it and put on the rest of my gear.

Riding at these temps would not be possible except for heated grips and elephant ears. I love my heated grips.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #74921
kbuckey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
What issues have those been?Do you mean it has improved?Makes sense, except at 64K miles, the slide guide emulsion tube, slide and and perhaps the jet needle will be worn out.I would use all OEM parts.You could leave it all stock, save jetting it correctly.

Regards,

Derek
Issues have been that at sea level or thereabouts it has an off idle stumble - harder to get moving, I've stalled it more than once at lower elevations forgetting that it needs more throttle to get moving. At mid elevations it has a bit of a mid-range hunt - not a huge issue but not really smooth either. Up here (I live at 7700 feet) in the mountains it runs best (of course with less power), and since I'm here most of the time I just leave it alone.

Yes my mileage has improved lately. Don't really know why. Not riding it any differently. From a normal 48 ish to about 52 mpg.

I think I might just rebuild it with stock parts - in part just to teach me exactly what's going on in there. Could buy a complete used carb, but rebuild might be kind of educational.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:20 PM   #74922
shu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuckey View Post
Hmm. I guess I'll fess up . My bike has just under 64000 miles on it and, well, er, the carb has never been opened up. Yeah, nothing. Dead stock. Including muffler, air box, filter. Yeah, it's always had some issues - issues which change depending on whether I'm riding at sea level or at over 10,000 feet. But all in all it runs pretty good.

Lately I've noticed the gas mileage has gone up a bit, can't figure that one out, maybe it's finally broken in?

Sooooo, being firmly in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I've just left it alone. But if I did open the carb up and completely rebuilt it, I know I wouldn't want to mess with it much. What stock parts should I replace with stock, and what with aftermarket? Seems like the overseas needle is one change, but then I'm going to want to tinker with it and I fear the nose of the camel is coming under the tent!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
It's probably more expensive to buy Suzuki Carb parts than buying a low miles stock Carb from someone here. Lots of guys go to the Pumper Carbs and sell off their stock Carbs ... most pretty cheap. Check out Flea Market,
always one or two for sale. I paid $75 for a near virgin stock Carb that came with a NEW DJ needle and extra jets. I'm at 50K miles ... but only 20K on my latest Carb. Next year I'll buy another. I keep the old one for back up ... even though it does show some wear ... it still works OK.

Congrats on the 64K ! Very impressive.
Good advice from Grifter, Kbuckey.

That's what I did with my carb a few months ago. With 55, 000 miles it was still running ok but when I opened it up I found some wear on the jet needle.



A little hard to see but there is some 'stepping' on the needle. Motolab advised that the guide itself was probably worn out and I should replace that too. When I looked at that he was right.

Instead I bought a carb from an inmate here that was taken off an '09 with a few thousand miles on it. I replaced the pilot jet and put it in the bike and everything's running fine.

$75 or $80 seems to be the going price for a low mileage carb. There are a lot of guys here who've got one to sell.


..............shu
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #74923
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Originally Posted by kbuckey View Post

I think I might just rebuild it with stock parts - in part just to teach me exactly what's going on in there. Could buy a complete used carb, but rebuild might be kind of educational.
I bought a new/used one, put it on the bike and then took the old one apart anyway. I'll keep it as a spare.

.............shu
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #74924
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Originally Posted by Skidmarkart View Post
Yeah - your right about that. I would have gotten a cheaper tire, paid nothing for labor, and not be in this situation of hating my new tire. I was paying for convenience, but it isn't really convenient now is it?

I thought about it, but I had questions - How do you balance, if you do it yourself?
Marc Parnes balancer. $100. use it with jack stands or chairs or cinderblocks.
Very nice unit, stores small, and very accurate.

http://www.marcparnes.com/Buyers_Guide.htm




..........shu
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:43 PM   #74925
thetable
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Originally Posted by shu View Post
Marc Parnes balancer. $100. use it with jack stands or chairs or cinderblocks.
Very nice unit, stores small, and very accurate.
I have one, use it, and love it!

...but, I've never bothered balancing tires on a D/S, dirt bike, or motard. I'm just not sensitive enough to feel a tire balance issue over the vibes of a thumper. Perhaps I'm beating up on my suspension and giving up a little tire life and traction at the edges, but really can't feel a need. Multi-cylinder street bikes: every time, but never the thumpers.
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