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Old 03-19-2013, 04:07 PM   #74956
sandwash
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"All the adapters" There is only one adapter,air box to carb intake.DIY FCR-MX can be done for 200$. I did mine for just under 200$
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:18 PM   #74957
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Bst rebuild?

OK, the stock carb is apart on my work bench again. I was going to ask what the emulsion tube was, but I think I found it. In the bottom of the slide guide, it's what the needle slides into. Can't tell if it's worn. Can't really tell if the side guide is worn. Anyway, I moved the clip up to the third notch (up from the fourth). So do I just put it back together, or is there something else I should be doing? The only issue I could find this time is the oring at the bottom of the slide guide seemed a little dirty or worn, so I guess I'll get another one. Last time The airbox was opened up and the jet was changed to 145, with the adjustable needle.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:52 PM   #74958
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I'm nearly 53 with 2 kids (well one is 22) and ride a big yellow dirt bike to work every day!

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Originally Posted by Skidmarkart View Post
Yeah - I'm nearly 40 have two kids, and ride a big yellow dirt bike to work everyday. Not really worried about cool anymore
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:16 PM   #74959
motolab
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
and it's all about the Keihin FCR pumper carb, not the stock BST. Of course the principles are all the same
You should be careful about saying that. With an FCR, you can add or subtract fuel via tuning a circuit responsible for a given throttle position, but you cannot change the shape of the delivery curve in terms or rpm. For instance, if you had a lean and a rich spot at different rpm at a certain throttle position, you could fix the lean spot while making the rich spot even richer, or you could fix the rich spot while making the lean spot even leaner. With a BST, you can affect a range of rpm in broad strokes semi-independently of the others via needle shape, needle base diameter, emulsion tube outlet size, float height and main air corrector size.

To that comes that with the FCR all openings besides idle and WOT are controlled by needle shape and clip position. For all intents an purposes, the needle must simultaneously have the correct diameters at heights that control 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 openings (if the "dots are connected" then the areas between these openings should be acceptably close). On the other hand, if the BST's needle shape is capable of making WOT run correctly, 1/16 and 1/8 openings can be controlled by the pilot jet size, and 1/4 opening can be controlled by the needle clip position (if WOT and 1/4 opening are correct, so will 1/2 and 3/4 openings be).
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One thing to note is how mild the DR650 engine design is. You have to be WAY OFF on settings to get things like surging, pinging, bogging and such.
Not unless the bike is way off as delivered (which could certainly be). Note that at least one of the posters in the seven links I provided (namely Procycle) said that his pinging engine was completely stock.

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Old 03-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #74960
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Originally Posted by Obard View Post
I was going to ask what the emulsion tube was, but I think I found it. In the bottom of the slide guide, it's what the needle slides into. Can't tell if it's worn. Can't really tell if the side guide is worn.
If the slide guide has worn more than .010" (0.25mm), i.e. the indentations in the bottom corners adjacent to the bore (not to be confused with the round indentations) are less than .010" (0.25mm) deep, and/or the slide exhibits vertical grooving on the downstream side, it is pretty much guaranteed that the emulsion tube is worn out. To that end, see http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=298, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=299, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=300, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=301, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=305, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=302 and http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=304.
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So do I just put it back together, or is there something else I should be doing?
Replace the slide if it has been drilled. The float needle should be replaced if there is evidence of a witness line from seat contact evident on the rubber conical tip of the needle under magnification. Replace any rubber parts that have shrunken, deformed, hardened, cracked or otherwise been damaged. Set the float height to 14.7 mm with a float height setting tool. Replace the pilot jet for good measure. Install an adjustable aluminum jet needle with a reasonable profile. Reinstall the now missing white plastic needle spacer. Adjust the idle mixture and speed.

After that, tuning should be done from the top down, i.e. main jet for wide open throttle first, followed by clip position for 1/4 opening, followed by pilot jet size for 1/8 and 1/16 openings.

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Old 03-19-2013, 06:59 PM   #74961
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
"All the adapters" There is only one adapter,air box to carb intake.DIY FCR-MX can be done for 200$. I did mine for just under 200$
It's been years since I read MX Rob's FCR R&D thread ... but IIRC, he designed several generations of various ring adapters ... both to fit the FCR onto the intake manifold and to adapt to the airbox. Maybe something has changed?

Far as I remember ... a stock FCR won't just bolt up to the DR650 Air Box/Manifold?

I also remember Rob spent about a year screwing around testing different needles and jetting combos ... and many of the Pioneers to the FCR had poor MPG. I know most of that has been solved. What MPG do you get now when cruising at 75 mph on highway?

I learned a bit about tuning the FCR Carb on my WR250F. I used a JD Jetting kit, pretty much plug and play. But with an FCR, LOTS more you can do ... Squirt angle and Squirt duration, Leak jets and 4 different needle choices for altitude and temps ... all this is a bit fiddly but once set it's all good.

Also, I find the FCR more susceptible to dirt, water in fuel and old fuel. I've clogged the Pilot Jet 3 times on my WR250F. That bike does sit around a bit, but usually is fired up about at least once a month.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 03-19-2013 at 07:06 PM
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #74962
sandwash
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39 FCR-MX fits the intake boot on the motor side. Mostly off road rider,but I regularly get 46-48 mpg. Throttle twist (R1 or R6 tube) doesn't help,but it sure spins up fast.For me the fun factor and performance out weighs the mileage drop.I was running a 14/45 combo,got used to that and now I am running 15/43.Throttle control when going through the nasty stuff works wonders.No troubles since the install(3-4 years)
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:34 PM   #74963
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
39 FCR-MX fits the intake boot on the motor side. Mostly off road rider,but I regularly get 46-48 mpg. Throttle twist (R1 or R6 tube) doesn't help,but it sure spins up fast.For me the fun factor and performance out weighs the mileage drop.I was running a 14/45 combo,got used to that and now I am running 15/43.Throttle control when going through the nasty stuff works wonders.No troubles since the install(3-4 years)
Excellent! If you're getting 46 to 48 mpg ... you're doing pretty good. That's about what I get on my DR with re-jetted BST ... and less off road. Big plus on better throttle response/control for off road. THAT ... I could use!
How much was the Carb itself? I know for a while they were around cheap but then the supply seemed to thin out, prices went up. Did the $200 include the Carb and the adapter? If so ... that is a very worth while mod, IMHO.
What about throttle cables and choke routing?
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:35 PM   #74964
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Shesaid has mentioned the ability to go a bit slower might be desired. I think she'd really like to be able to be off of the clutch at idle, for slow speed practice, which I don't know if that is possible with the DR. I can pick up a 14 tooth sprocket and go a little lower, but just how much change will there be? Anyone have any thoughts?

MV
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:40 PM   #74965
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by Hesaid View Post
Shesaid has mentioned the ability to go a bit slower might be desired. I think she'd really like to be able to be off of the clutch at idle, for slow speed practice, which I don't know if that is possible with the DR. I can pick up a 14 tooth sprocket and go a little lower, but just how much change will there be? Anyone have any thoughts?

MV
Try this over on Jesse's site:

http://www.kientech.com/DR650ConvNst...rocketkits.htm

14T front, 45T rear. Should make a substantial difference.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:07 PM   #74966
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So I dropped the brake in oil last night and on the way too work everything seemed to be goodbye I was hauling the mail too work I was going too be late . Then on the way home I noticed that my shifter felt different stiff and loud. It feels and sound like its clunking into gear wether up or down on or off throttle and i can here it over the motor and my ear buds . Am I just paranoid or ?

The oil I used was factory 10/40 non synthetic .


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Old 03-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #74967
sandwash
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Bought the carb off ebay 100-125.machinist buddy made the adapter.Lived in Los Angeles at the time so Sudo? was right there and bought seals, needles and jets.Little bit of trail and error,got it all sorted out.Well worth the effort.Big plus for Rob and his efforts.Throttle cables and routing no problems
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:14 PM   #74968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesaid View Post
Shesaid has mentioned the ability to go a bit slower might be desired. I think she'd really like to be able to be off of the clutch at idle, for slow speed practice, which I don't know if that is possible with the DR. I can pick up a 14 tooth sprocket and go a little lower, but just how much change will there be? Anyone have any thoughts?

MV
Depends on rider experience. I like low gears, but right now only have 14/43. I don't ride much over 65mph. Off road it's nice. 14/45 would be amazing off road, but you probably won't want to ride very far (slab) to get there. If you want to know the difference, you can always do the math (i.e., what's the difference between 15/42 and 14/42 or 14/45 or whatever...realize those are just fractions and you can do the math and then the difference to find the percentages) between any of them. That percentage can then be applied to gearing, torque, RPM to see where you'll be.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #74969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
How much was the Carb itself? I know for a while they were around cheap but then the supply seemed to thin out, prices went up. Did the $200 include the Carb and the adapter? If so ... that is a very worth while mod, IMHO.
What about throttle cables and choke routing?
$200 for Keihin FRC39 ?? wow i'll get 2 off them . Dunno maybe if u look hard or find someone desperete to sell. They usualy goes for around $350 to $400 used on ebay maybe even more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keihin-Fcr-M...f975d8&vxp=mtr
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:33 PM   #74970
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Fcr

The FCR bolts on more or less. It depends on what FCR you get. AFAIK, they all plug straight into the DR650 intake manifold and need to adapt to the airbox boot, which can be a simple sleeve.

I adapted the stock throttle cables to mine, and as I have the Safari, not need to get some vacuum for the fuel tap.

I tried various setups with my BST40, including a DJ kit and my own needle that I spun down from an FCR one but could never git it right, close, but never 'right'.

I got a new FCR for $250 from memory on eBay, ex Polaris, and used MXRobs specs and leaned off from there. Fuel economy was about 5% worse than totally stock DR650s that travelled with me, albeit a bit slower, so maybe about the same.

I've since fitted an NCVT needle and adjustable Merge leak jet and its heaps better again, and more economical, I think. Not much testing of it yet as I'm getting over some knee surgery.

I have posted in my build thread, and the DRR link posted previously.

Terrific upgrade, more snap, smoother, and more low rpm rideability. No surges, no bogs, perfectly linear response when setup.

Its not complicated to fit, and not much more than plug and play.
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