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Old 03-27-2013, 09:16 PM   #75256
NC Rick
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This stuff is really quite interesting and no doubt, size matters;-)

More swept seal area will (all other things being equal) add friction. Lip type seals also can add a measure of hysteresis to a damper system because of the compressibility and "springy" nature of the elastic material necessary. We use a quad ring type design to minimize that effect.

The shaft it's self is not dissipating so much heat on it's own but you make a good point, the larger shaft moves more fluid into the reservoir and back, significantly aiding in moving the hot oil to help the shock body dissipate that heat. With a small body shock, the larger shaft reduces the amount of oil capacity in the shock by a significant amount, negating a part of that advantage. The biggest issue in this case is the compression adjuster in my opinion.

We are a race tech center and the race tech product is a really excellent one. We sell them, service them and think they are awesome. We also feel that our own offering is the best. The point I am hoping to get across is that the bigger shaft is not really an advantage in our oem shock bodies. You can see that there are many design considerations, many of which are compromises. We try to make the most cogent choices we can so that our customers get the best product we can provide.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #75257
LexTalionis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rand0mlychrisUK View Post
Hey,
What do you guys think about these racks? Pretty good price, but haven't the foggiest about quality

http://www.pmracks.com/products.php?id=3

Cheers
I installed these side protectors and tail rack three years ago. The metal tubing is sufficient for the application, all welds look good, I like the way they look on my black '09.

I always carry a tailbag that weights about 30 pounds, no problems to date with the tail rack. However, this is all street usage, but does include rather rough asphalt roads.

For the side protectors, the left side bottom attachment was a little misaligned, such that I had to attach the piece with loose bolts, then use more effort than I should have had to to tighten the bottom bolt and force the mounting sleeve into position. The good thing is, the plastic side cover is removable w/o removing the protector, so I don't believe I will ever have to remove it.

The right side protector will not protect the side panel from abrasion by a throw-over saddlebag, you'll need to protect the OEM plastic side panel with tape if you care about the finish. Either way, the saddlebags will not press on the side panel sufficiently to press the side panel onto the exhaust, so you're good there. The plastic side panel is not removable with the protector in place.

Lex
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:30 AM   #75258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Honestly, if they're going to sell a bike brand new on the showroom floor, they should be required to carry some basic maintenance parts for it. By way of example, I went to the Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawi/KTM dealer by my house because I needed chain, sprockets, and a countershaft retainer bolt for my DR. They had none of those things. Considering that those are a routine maintenance item, I was shocked that they didn't have anything available.
More shocking to me was when I had the KLR, all three of the local Kawasaki dealers had NO valve shims in stock! Each place I asked the parts guy what the mechanics did then, with no shims available. Same answer, all three places: mechanics had their own supply of used shims; I'm guessing the mechanics then were kicked forward the shim cost that the customer paid.

Lex
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:13 AM   #75259
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[QUOTE=LexTalionis;21052026]I installed these side protectors and tail rack three years ago. The metal tubing is sufficient for the application, all welds look good, I like the way they look on my black '09.

I always carry a tailbag that weights about 30 pounds, no problems to date with the tail rack. However, this is all street usage, but does include rather rough asphalt roads.

For the side protectors, the left side bottom attachment was a little misaligned, such that I had to attach the piece with loose bolts, then use more effort than I should have had to to tighten the bottom bolt and force the mounting sleeve into position. The good thing is, the plastic side cover is removable w/o removing the protector, so I don't believe I will ever have to remove it.

The right side protector will not protect the side panel from abrasion by a throw-over saddlebag, you'll need to protect the OEM plastic side panel with tape if you care about the finish. Either way, the saddlebags will not press on the side panel sufficiently to press the side panel onto the exhaust, so you're good there. The plastic side panel is not removable with the protector in place.

Lex[/QUOTE

I have these racks,fitment was good and i can remove both panels with them on.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:41 AM   #75260
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis View Post
More shocking to me was when I had the KLR, all three of the local Kawasaki dealers had NO valve shims in stock! Each place I asked the parts guy what the mechanics did then, with no shims available. Same answer, all three places: mechanics had their own supply of used shims; I'm guessing the mechanics then were kicked forward the shim cost that the customer paid.

Lex
That's bordering on criminal, isn't it? Makes me wonder what chain and sprockets they'd put on a bike since they were still offering to do it for me (for a tidy sum of several hundred dollars).
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:05 AM   #75261
acesandeights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Rick View Post
This stuff is really quite interesting and no doubt, size matters;-)

More swept seal area will (all other things being equal) add friction. Lip type seals also can add a measure of hysteresis to a damper system because of the compressibility and "springy" nature of the elastic material necessary. We use a quad ring type design to minimize that effect.

The shaft it's self is not dissipating so much heat on it's own but you make a good point, the larger shaft moves more fluid into the reservoir and back, significantly aiding in moving the hot oil to help the shock body dissipate that heat. With a small body shock, the larger shaft reduces the amount of oil capacity in the shock by a significant amount, negating a part of that advantage. The biggest issue in this case is the compression adjuster in my opinion.

We are a race tech center and the race tech product is a really excellent one. We sell them, service them and think they are awesome. We also feel that our own offering is the best. The point I am hoping to get across is that the bigger shaft is not really an advantage in our oem shock bodies. You can see that there are many design considerations, many of which are compromises. We try to make the most cogent choices we can so that our customers get the best product we can provide.
Thanks for the response.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:13 AM   #75262
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Be glad to have that if you will send it West mate. send me a paypal request for the postage. Regards, Bryan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I've got a short side stand if anyone wants it. Genuine Suzuki part, the silver one for lowered bikes. I ordered it because I thought I might need it when I went to a 19" front wheel but it's still ok. So it's just sat there now.

I'm based in Oz so sending within Oz would be easier, free to a good home if the postage isn't crazy or maybe the reciever would like to make an ADV donation

I'll post this in the Oz/Kiwi DR650 thread too.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:35 AM   #75263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis View Post
More shocking to me was when I had the KLR, all three of the local Kawasaki dealers had NO valve shims in stock! Each place I asked the parts guy what the mechanics did then, with no shims available. Same answer, all three places: mechanics had their own supply of used shims; I'm guessing the mechanics then were kicked forward the shim cost that the customer paid.

Lex
Not surprising, just before I moved away I was looking for some shims for my Vstrom. (BTW, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki all have bikes that use the same size shims) I called almost every dealer in the DFW area and NONE of them had a shim kit/shims that I needed. Ended up ordering some from Rocky Mountain ATV. The ridiculous part is even after paying shipping they were cheaper then most of the dealers pricing were, and I got them just as quick. Some dealers quoted me as much as $8 a damn shim! What's really sad, is the Harley dealer up in tiny little Rogers AR has shims in stock all the time that fit my damn KTM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #75264
eakins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexTalionis View Post
More shocking to me was when I had the KLR, all three of the local Kawasaki dealers had NO valve shims in stock! Each place I asked the parts guy what the mechanics did then, with no shims available. Same answer, all three places: mechanics had their own supply of used shims; I'm guessing the mechanics then were kicked forward the shim cost that the customer paid.

Lex
No doubt that procedure is used more often than not in most shops.
If you've done enough valve adjustments you have all the old ones you pulled out which should be still good. If the shop has several mechanics they can share with each other and cover most everything. Some mechanics just lap the shims. I do agree if they do that then you are trading in your shims and there should not be a line item charge for new shims.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:38 AM   #75265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
That's bordering on criminal, isn't it? Makes me wonder what chain and sprockets they'd put on a bike since they were still offering to do it for me (for a tidy sum of several hundred dollars).
If they don't charge you for the shims then it's a fair trade.
Sounds like most of the bikes use the same shims anyway so it's not surprising most mechanics would have a huge selection of used one that work just fine.

Then again, since the bikes use the same shim a good parts dept might atleast have a few of each in stock. Then again then again, consider what Procycle said about keeping stock. I'm sure shops learned a long time ago that new shims where sitting on the shelf too long as mechanics had plenty of good used ones to use and thus they just stocking.

The lesson in the end is do it yourself or own a bike like a DR that has adjusters.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:45 AM   #75266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
That's not as bad as the F650GS single I saw where mice had made a nest of straw in the airbox and the guy ran it that way until it quit 15 minutes later. A bunch of the straw made its way into the combustion chamber and compressed and fractured the top of the piston. Pushed it down so far that the rings couldn't be removed.

That cost a lot to fix but insurance paid the bill.
We had that problem a couple of years ago. We had been free-feeding the dogs in the garage, but the mice decided to hijack the dog food and hide it over the winter. First, FatWife complained that her Jeep ran poorly. When I pulled the air filter and checked the airbox, I found this. Fortunately it apparently did not cause any problems and ran much better after I cleaned out the airbox.



Then I checked her F650 and found the mice had eaten through the air filter and the intake was plugged through airbox, into the fuel injection into the cylinder head intake all the way to the valves. We had the dealer clean out the F.I. and combustion chamber. Since the bike was never started, there was no damage...



This shows how much dog food I pulled out of the airbox:





From that day forward, the dogs were not feed in the garage any longer...
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:46 AM   #75267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Not surprising, just before I moved away I was looking for some shims for my Vstrom. (BTW, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki all have bikes that use the same size shims) I called almost every dealer in the DFW area and NONE of them had a shim kit/shims that I needed. Ended up ordering some from Rocky Mountain ATV. The ridiculous part is even after paying shipping they were cheaper then most of the dealers pricing were, and I got them just as quick. Some dealers quoted me as much as $8 a damn shim! What's really sad, is the Harley dealer up in tiny little Rogers AR has shims in stock all the time that fit my damn KTM.
these kits?
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/...Valve-Shim-Kit
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/...FY9DMgod5mcAJw

i read several reports how those who need shims and are doing their valves themselves often get all their measure for the correct new shims. then they cover the bikes engine (a few days downtime) and 2 day order the correct ones. most modern shim engines need very little adjustment anyway. stroms often go their whole life with no new shims needed nor added. i'm sure plenty of shop valve jobs are just opening up looking and then button up and charge the customer for time.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:46 AM   #75268
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I worked at a shop and we did not sell shims to walk in customers. We had a few shim boxes in the box that the mechanics used and we did swap them out. We didn't sell them since there was no part number for them and we did not want to be out of stock if someone sold one and didn't replace it. The mechanics would tell the parts guys when they needed a size (rarely happened) and they got them.
I can't remember but I think we charged a minimal shim swap fee on orders. This was done for two reasons, one was to pay for the replacements if we needed a new size, but also to clearly let the customer know how many shims we used. I think it was like $2.00 a shim.
When I owned by own shop I did not charge for shims, and I gave my customer a paper with the before measurements and what shims I put in there, are left in there if no changes. I know a lot of shops charged for shims and never checked them.
When I was a kid worked at a place that had an A,B, and C tuneup price. We joked that A was wipe the oil filter or filter housing clean, B was change the oil and wipe the filter, and C was change the oil and filter. Of course the list that the customer saw was a bit longer.
Sadly this was the norm, and one I later became uncomfortable with.
Oh and to keep it off topic, Jeff from Pro Cycle obviously understands the economics of today's motorcycle shop. I haven't worked in one in ten years, but if I did we would stock very little, it just doesn't make sense, when you look at the investment of money and shelf space. If it isn't turning over or a high profit I am not stocking it. This is why places carry a lot of helmets and gloves and jackets, but not sprockets.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:50 AM   #75269
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busy little mice. the dogs got shortchanged in the deal.

how do you like the Goodyear Gatorback belt on the Jeep?
i've read many die hard Gates fans are moving over to those.
the word is the don't squeal/slip period, even with mis-aligned tensioners and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
We had that problem a couple of years ago. We had been free-feeding the dogs in the garage, but the mice decided to hijack the dog food and hide it over the winter. First, FatWife complained that her Jeep ran poorly. When I pulled the air filter and checked the airbox, I found this. Fortunately it apparently did not cause any problems and ran much better after I cleaned out the airbox.



Then I checked her F650 and found the intake plugged through airbox, into the fuel injection into the cylinder head intake all the way to the valves. We had the dealer clean out the F.I. and combustion chamber. Since the bike was never started, there was no damage...



This shows how much dog food I pulled out of the airbox:





From that day forward, the dogs were not feed in the garage any longer...
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:00 AM   #75270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe View Post
I worked at a shop and we did not sell shims to walk in customers. We had a few shim boxes in the box that the mechanics used and we did swap them out. We didn't sell them since there was no part number for them and we did not want to be out of stock if someone sold one and didn't replace it. The mechanics would tell the parts guys when they needed a size (rarely happened) and they got them.
I can't remember but I think we charged a minimal shim swap fee on orders. This was done for two reasons, one was to pay for the replacements if we needed a new size, but also to clearly let the customer know how many shims we used. I think it was like $2.00 a shim.
When I owned by own shop I did not charge for shims, and I gave my customer a paper with the before measurements and what shims I put in there, are left in there if no changes. I know a lot of shops charged for shims and never checked them.
When I was a kid worked at a place that had an A,B, and C tuneup price. We joked that A was wipe the oil filter or filter housing clean, B was change the oil and wipe the filter, and C was change the oil and filter. Of course the list that the customer saw was a bit longer.
Sadly this was the norm, and one I later became uncomfortable with.
Oh and to keep it off topic, Jeff from Pro Cycle obviously understands the economics of today's motorcycle shop. I haven't worked in one in ten years, but if I did we would stock very little, it just doesn't make sense, when you look at the investment of money and shelf space. If it isn't turning over or a high profit I am not stocking it. This is why places carry a lot of helmets and gloves and jackets, but not sprockets.
it's those A,B,C shops that give the repair industry a bad name and the primary reason I try to do all my own work. in the end i'd say a few shops are bad, most are in the middle and just OK and a few are exceptional. i find independent reapir shops to be very good as they are not selling bikes and supply but rather repair service and relying on good word of mouth to stay in business.

In Steamboat Springs, the most successful car shop (Toyota, Honda & Subaru) is independent and goes out of it's way to take very good care of it's customers especially women. Women tend to do ALOT more word of mouth decision making and this shop capitalized on that. Alot of women would buy one of those 3 mfg. just to use this shop for repairs. Men still do plenty of talking, yet shops don't get that when you screw a customer it craps you down the line with 3-5 more customers. I know if I get bad service I go out of my way to tell all my friends and warn them. Same idea if I get good service.
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