ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013, 03:37 PM   #75601
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRinCR View Post
Modern equipment is going to tough to find here in Costa Rica. So my dilema is to lap or not to lap ? Brand spanking new valves are OEM and I have no clue what they are made of. Also, what happens if you do lap where no lapping is required?
I doubt you could do any harm by lapping the valves. If you went crazy with the lapping compound and a drill motor you could possibly wear through the hardened coating on the valve faces. Any sensible amount of careful lapping won't hurt in any way.

I wonder if the manual actually says (or means) not to grind the valves? Since the late 60s most Japanese motorcycle valves are made in such a way that if you re-grind valve face of a used valve you will remove the hardened coating and the valve will wear out in short order.
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:03 PM   #75602
Mongle
Knuckle dragger
 
Mongle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina Y'all
Oddometer: 3,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I doubt you could do any harm by lapping the valves. If you went crazy with the lapping compound and a drill motor you could possibly wear through the hardened coating on the valve faces. Any sensible amount of careful lapping won't hurt in any way.

I wonder if the manual actually says (or means) not to grind the valves? Since the late 60s most Japanese motorcycle valves are made in such a way that if you re-grind valve face of a used valve you will remove the hardened coating and the valve will wear out in short order.
We lap every valve in after a valve job just to confirm valve seat location and a good finish from the cutters. I doubt you could lap enough by HAND to move any material. We use mostly use a "4A" compound which is fine. We never use anything courser then a "B" which is considered medium/fine.

I have ground motorcycle valves as well with no problems. What you have to watch for is if the black hard nitriding is on the face of the valve. If so it was hardened AFTER being ground. But, if the face of the valve is not black it means the valve was hardened BEFORE the face was ground. If it is not black to begin with I go ahead and grind it. We actually grind every valve (even new) for automotive stuff. Mass produced valves are often out of round more then you would think.

I've seen the do not lap on motorcycles an foreign cars for the exact reason you stated- for seat in purposes. I can only guess why. 14 years building motors- every valve lapped- and not one leaker; so I'm going with what has worked for me.

I'm with ProCycle- Lap them boys in and start burning gas!
Mongle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:10 PM   #75603
Mongle
Knuckle dragger
 
Mongle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina Y'all
Oddometer: 3,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post

Peng, this one? I don't know how you got it off. I think Suzuki used NASA RED Loctite on mine.
I can't believe someone actually was able to get that thing off. I started with a screwdriver- moved to the hand impact, moved up to the air impact, on up to the torch and air impact. At that point I decided it was there for good and I never need worry about it coming loose in an atomic blast. Decided I really didn't want it off anyway...
Mongle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:20 PM   #75604
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
I can't believe someone actually was able to get that thing off. I started with a screwdriver- moved to the hand impact, moved up to the air impact, on up to the torch and air impact. At that point I decided it was there for good and I never need worry about it coming loose in an atomic blast. Decided I really didn't want it off anyway...
Yeah, no reason to remove it anyway.
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #75605
805gregg
Just Stroming along
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
Oddometer: 1,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by George 99 View Post
Not mine, just saw this on the street yesterdy, a 93 with 8,000+ miles, looks stone stock and clean. Price sez $2100. Anyone interested send me a PM and I'll get the phone # for ya. No personal interest.
Too expensive for the old model, evryone wants the '96 on DR nwer model with more aftermarket parts, I got a '96 with 10,000miles for $1900 gregg
805gregg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:26 PM   #75606
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
I can't believe someone actually was able to get that thing off. I started with a screwdriver- moved to the hand impact, moved up to the air impact, on up to the torch and air impact. At that point I decided it was there for good and I never need worry about it coming loose in an atomic blast. Decided I really didn't want it off anyway...
No reason to ever remove it. Its easy to simply loosen one of the cable adjuster nuts and remove throttle cable from the holder. Re-adjusting is easy.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #75607
deathu
Adventurer
 
deathu's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Bucharest
Oddometer: 77
Hi,

I'm preparing to re-assemble the top end of my 1998 DR motor. It's the the first time I'm doing this and I need to clarify a couple of things:
1. the service manual states that you need to coat the "new gaskets" with oil when installing them. It is however not clear if it is referring only to the 4 crush gaskets of the main bolts holding the cylinder + cylinder head, or to ALL gaskets, i.e. including the metal cylinder/cylinder head gaskets. Do these need to be coated with engine oil as well? This seems kind of odd to me...

2. When re-installing the valves, the service manual calls for Suzuki Moly Paste to be applied uniformly on the valve stems. What I do currently have is a molybdenum disulphide and graphite grease, will this work? I tried searching the 'net but found no general consensus on this, some people even recommend engine oil. I'm trying to understand how things are supposed to work here, I do not want to destroy the valves or the guides. If I understand correctly whatever I use here will need to hold for an indefinite amount of time AND withstand high temperatures, as the valve stems are not lubricated with engine oil during operation, right? The oil will not get there because of the valve stem seals, so they need to work only with what I put there during the assembly, am I right? What would you guys use, considering the valves as well as guides are not new?
deathu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #75608
Emmbeedee
Procrastinators
 
Emmbeedee's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Near Ottawa, ON, Canada
Oddometer: 9,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
Just took my DR out for a quick ride to see if the heated gear was working, and the bike is running like a pig. About 1/4 throttle it sounds like someone's shutting off the ignition repeatedly as the bike is bucking really violently. This is pretty much the first ride of the year, so the gas is about 5 months old, though I did have fuel conditioner in it.

I think I might have some blocked jets. Possibly moisture in the fuel? As far as I know there's no Ethanol in the bike - we try to fill up at stations which don't blend.

Should I tear into it or put some methyl hydrate in to see if I can clear the jets first try first?
This bucking problem seems to be continuing. It doesn't happen immediately when I go for a ride but about 15 minutes in, it sounds like the engine is just shutting off momentarily, then it starts and continues, but eventually it gets so trying to keep a steady speed with the throttle only barely open, the thing judders and sputters really badly.

This is with fresh gas, and a cleaned float bowl.

I thought this might be something to do with my heated jacket liner which I'm running through a Warm N Safe Heat-Troller, at no more than 1/2 power but after my ride tonight where it ran badly, I put the battery on a charger and it immediately went into float mode as if no charge was needed.

While riding, I could see the high beam power going up and down as the Heat-Troller was cycling. It wasn't a big change in brightness but it was noticeable.

So could this be ignition/battery related?

Speaking of float bowls, my '96 DR has a bowl with a vent in it which drains below the bowl. My wife's '01 does not have the pipe out of it.



I thought my problem might have been that the vent was plugged but it is clear now. Made no difference to the running.
__________________
Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
Want to know more about the Garmin VIRB? See here.
"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
Emmbeedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:37 PM   #75609
Mongle
Knuckle dragger
 
Mongle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina Y'all
Oddometer: 3,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
No reason to ever remove it. Its easy to simply loosen one of the cable adjuster nuts and remove throttle cable from the holder. Re-adjusting is easy.
That is how I do it now. I was trying to take it off to put allen head screws to make removal of the carb quicker and to clean the carb better.
Mongle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:46 PM   #75610
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
This bucking problem seems to be continuing. It doesn't happen immediately when I go for a ride but about 15 minutes in, it sounds like the engine is just shutting off momentarily, then it starts and continues, but eventually it gets so trying to keep a steady speed with the throttle only barely open, the thing judders and sputters really badly.

This is with fresh gas, and a cleaned float bowl.

I thought this might be something to do with my heated jacket liner which I'm running through a Warm N Safe Heat-Troller, at no more than 1/2 power but after my ride tonight where it ran badly, I put the battery on a charger and it immediately went into float mode as if no charge was needed.

While riding, I could see the high beam power going up and down as the Heat-Troller was cycling. It wasn't a big change in brightness but it was noticeable.

So could this be ignition/battery related?

Speaking of float bowls, my '96 DR has a bowl with a vent in it which drains below the bowl. My wife's '01 does not have the pipe out of it.



I thought my problem might have been that the vent was plugged but it is clear now. Made no difference to the running.
Replace the Pilot Jet. Re-clean the Carb ... it looks filthy. Make sure your vents are venting to the correct place, clean all filters (metal fuel intake tube, petcock filter).

Also, pull out float and c a r e f u l l y clean under Jet needle. (rubber tip)

Blow out all orifices with ALL jets removed. Pay attention to what you're doing. Work slowly!
PS: Heat Troller and elec. jacket have NO affect ... unless you are shorting at your battery connection. Double check for a clean and tight connection. (I have a Warm & Safe and Troller also)
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:58 PM   #75611
Mongle
Knuckle dragger
 
Mongle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina Y'all
Oddometer: 3,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Hi,

I'm preparing to re-assemble the top end of my 1998 DR motor. It's the the first time I'm doing this and I need to clarify a couple of things:
1. the service manual states that you need to coat the "new gaskets" with oil when installing them. It is however not clear if it is referring only to the 4 crush gaskets of the main bolts holding the cylinder + cylinder head, or to ALL gaskets, i.e. including the metal cylinder/cylinder head gaskets. Do these need to be coated with engine oil as well? This seems kind of odd to me...

I looked at my manual and it didn't specifically say to oil what I call the base gasket (under the cylinder) or head gasket (under the head). Those being metal style gaskets I would put them on dry. Cometic which makes multi layer metal gaskets makes a big deal about making sure everything is DRY for their gaskets. I guess you could use oil on the fiber type gaskets like go on the clutch cover. I never use oil because it makes a mess.

2. When re-installing the valves, the service manual calls for Suzuki Moly Paste to be applied uniformly on the valve stems. What I do currently have is a molybdenum disulphide and graphite grease, will this work? I tried searching the 'net but found no general consensus on this, some people even recommend engine oil. I'm trying to understand how things are supposed to work here, I do not want to destroy the valves or the guides. If I understand correctly whatever I use here will need to hold for an indefinite amount of time AND withstand high temperatures, as the valve stems are not lubricated with engine oil during operation, right? The oil will not get there because of the valve stem seals, so they need to work only with what I put there during the assembly, am I right? What would you guys use, considering the valves as well as guides are not new?

The oil you are putting on the stems if for initial start up. After that a "controlled" amount of oil is allowed past the seals to lubricate the stems. The oil you put in there will be gone after the first ride. They recommend the Moly Paste because they don't know how long before you start the engine up- and that is what they use during assembly. You can use just oil if you are going to run it within a week or two. It may seep out of the guide into the port after that and leave little lubrication. I recommend any engine type assembly lube. I personally use Torco MPZ- It is thick and hangs on parts for a long time and has high pressure additives that aid in initial start-up and break-in.
Good luck!
Mongle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 06:28 PM   #75612
gofast1320
Studly Adventurer
 
gofast1320's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Middle Tennessee
Oddometer: 732
DR 650 Bar ends

One of mine kept easing out and turns out it was bent inside and could not be adjusted. When I used hand impact with vise holding square part the screw snapped.
I need bar ends for my stock bars. Anyone got a pair they are willing to sell?
Thank
gofast1320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #75613
Emmbeedee
Procrastinators
 
Emmbeedee's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Near Ottawa, ON, Canada
Oddometer: 9,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Replace the Pilot Jet. Re-clean the Carb ... it looks filthy. Make sure your vents are venting to the correct place, clean all filters (metal fuel intake tube, petcock filter).

Also, pull out float and c a r e f u l l y clean under Jet needle. (rubber tip)

Blow out all orifices with ALL jets removed. Pay attention to what you're doing. Work slowly!
PS: Heat Troller and elec. jacket have NO affect ... unless you are shorting at your battery connection. Double check for a clean and tight connection. (I have a Warm & Safe and Troller also)
Thanks for the advice. You're right, the carb does look filthy. I had hoped to not have to take the carb off but I just may have to.

Which Warm N Safe jacket do you have? Ours are 90 watts at full power. My wife and I have one of each, on separate bikes, of course. Not two 90 watt jackets on one bike.
__________________
Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
Want to know more about the Garmin VIRB? See here.
"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
Emmbeedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #75614
deathu
Adventurer
 
deathu's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Bucharest
Oddometer: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Good luck!
Thank you for the clarifications, your answers are very helpful!
deathu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 07:37 PM   #75615
badweatherbiker
Studly Adventurer
 
badweatherbiker's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: North Florida
Oddometer: 706
Thanks for all the kind words guys everything is in Gods hands.
I will miss the DR and there is no doubt I will be on another one it is a fine bike, just not a great interstate hopper but we had some great times. I usually put about 40,000+ miles a year on my bikes and getting pelted with hail, stopping to let the tornado's by and watching out for snowbirds while trying to avoid lightening electrocution is nothing new to me- trust me the badweatherbiker handle serves me well.
I do have the KZ1000P but the head and carbs are off and it may be a few months before its ready to go so i'll likely take a break from biking for a bit.
I have 2 old project bikes so you never know ill have a little time on my hands maybe ill take a look at them.
I'm not going anywhere I have grown quite fond of those DR's and thanks to you guys I know a good bit about them.
__________________
1996 Kawasaki KZ1000P (currently being rebuilt)
World class nutritional supplements, weight loss, meal replacement shakes, quality energy drinks, pre and post workout supplements!
Earn extra income, become a distributor or just purchase:
Advocare products-www.advocare.com/12084065
badweatherbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015