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Old 04-24-2013, 07:49 PM   #76081
TRAVELGUY
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If the rear shock is compressed from a impact and the engine is under acceleration the chain is going to be tight no matter how it is adjusted!! Top run of the chain is always tight under acceleration.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
How many times will this come around I wonder? If it's nothing to do with too tight a chain,then what pulls the roller out of the frame? Gravity?
I know many of you are new to bikes and adjusting things but....

Take the shock off the bike,let the rear end drop through it's travel and watch where the chain goes in relation to the roller when the chain is too tight.
The chain will hang up and pull real hard on that roller,Ive tried it.

Chain properly adjusted and it wont,its real easy to get the chain too tight with the cheapo snail adjusters.

This isnt hearsay or me wondering about it,its what happens in real life/real time,the top roller on my bike is fine after 26000 miles of lots of off road beatings.

But if you think that roller pops out of the frame because it get's tired and just cant hang on anymore,that's fine also.

(Many folks think they're adjusting their chain just right keeping it snugged up,not always so)
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:00 PM   #76082
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Wow, jumping over a shopping mall!
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:53 PM   #76083
RichBeBe
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DR's jump fine, it is the landing that is harsh.
Not me riding, but me taking the pic. It is Lil'Steve riding his low-rider DR
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:59 PM   #76084
Adv Grifter
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Hey! Nice Pic Rich!
Man ... that sucker is fully BOTTOMED OUT! Glad the rider is not seated.Ouch! Anyone remember the story from the Aussie rider who was jumping his DR on a Moto track ... the foot peg BROKE OFF. I think he broke his ankle. Another good reason to not add lowered, re-welded pegs. Caution please.

I avoid jumping my DR650, but do like to loft the front off water bars. But those are soft landings. Hard landings on the DR are just asking for disaster.
But you can charge Mexican Topes at full speed ... even with a big load, something that really messes up a loaded KLR. (been there, done it)
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:32 PM   #76085
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
But you can charge Mexican Topes at full speed ... even with a big load
With my still-improving amateur offroad skill, I'll wait until I have rebound damping out back before I try that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:23 PM   #76086
JagLite
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Cool2 Respectfully disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
How many times will this come around I wonder? If it's nothing to do with too tight a chain,then what pulls the roller out of the frame? Gravity?
Ha-ha-ha!
I know many of you are new to bikes and adjusting things but....

Take the shock off the bike,let the rear end drop through it's travel and watch where the chain goes in relation to the roller when the chain is too tight.
The chain will hang up and pull real hard on that roller,Ive tried it.

Chain properly adjusted and it wont,its real easy to get the chain too tight with the cheapo snail adjusters.

This isnt hearsay or me wondering about it,its what happens in real life/real time,the top roller on my bike is fine after 26000 miles of lots of off road beatings.

But if you think that roller pops out of the frame because it get's tired and just cant hang on anymore,that's fine also.

(Many folks think they're adjusting their chain just right keeping it snugged up,not always so)
I am guessing you have never watched a super slo-mo video of a motorcycle chain in action.

It does NOT travel a nice straight path as it appears when checking clearance statically as you suggest.

I do agree that a chain that is too tight will cause problems.
Not just roller problems but much more serious problems too.

However, I believe that many, if not most (and possibly all), of the chain rollers that have been forcibly removed were taken out by (slack) chain (deceleration) whip.

A tight chain will tear up the roller plastic and will be obviously wearing the roller. It will wear over time and would be more likely to bend the bolt than tear the weld off. The chain force would be like using a pry bar to bend the roller/bolt upwards. Has anyone ever found one bent up?

The force required to tear the frame out as it does is much more likely caused by a sudden extreme blow and not a gradual loading that the suspension compressing would deliver. (gradual in this case being milliseconds, but not instantaneous)

Ever play "crack the whip"?
That is what the chain does to the upper roller I believe.

The chain whip hits the roller like a sledge hammer.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:52 PM   #76087
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good points all. this bike is being built to do long off road tours and it not much stock left at this point. infact I have no key, zero safety switches,different headlight,vapor speedo....basically all i have left of a 2001 dr 650 is a motor with 3 miles and a frame


Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Probably some loss in resale value. A potential future buyer may think of a non-working neutral light as something that would have to be fixed by a shop.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:52 AM   #76088
blackcap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
I am guessing you have never watched a super slo-mo video of a motorcycle chain in action.

It does NOT travel a nice straight path as it appears when checking clearance statically as you suggest.

I do agree that a chain that is too tight will cause problems.
Not just roller problems but much more serious problems too.

However, I believe that many, if not most (and possibly all), of the chain rollers that have been forcibly removed were taken out by (slack) chain (deceleration) whip.

A tight chain will tear up the roller plastic and will be obviously wearing the roller. It will wear over time and would be more likely to bend the bolt than tear the weld off. The chain force would be like using a pry bar to bend the roller/bolt upwards. Has anyone ever found one bent up?

The force required to tear the frame out as it does is much more likely caused by a sudden extreme blow and not a gradual loading that the suspension compressing would deliver. (gradual in this case being milliseconds, but not instantaneous)

Ever play "crack the whip"?
That is what the chain does to the upper roller I believe.

The chain whip hits the roller like a sledge hammer.
check this out at about 3:20 for what JagLite is talking about. those little bits of metal do all kinds of crazy things right next to your foot.

The first year Part 1 from Rob Armstrong on Vimeo.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:01 AM   #76089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
check this out at about 3:20 for what JagLite is talking about. those little bits of metal do all kinds of crazy things right next to your foot.

The first year Part 1 from Rob Armstrong on Vimeo.

+1 on that. If you ever get an opportunity, watch the chain on a bike on a Dyno. Ugly
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:05 AM   #76090
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Chain whip isn't going to rip a roller out.
If the suspension compressed while the engine is under load, it means the chain has got 20 or more hp trying to straighten it, and the roller is in the way...

On my 350, the roller is positioned much higher and has very minimal markings on it from the chain.
The DR top rollers get grooved to hell.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:40 AM   #76091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Hey! Nice Pic Rich!
Man ... that sucker is fully BOTTOMED OUT! Glad the rider is not seated.Ouch! Anyone remember the story from the Aussie rider who was jumping his DR on a Moto track ... the foot peg BROKE OFF. I think he broke his ankle. Another good reason to not add lowered, re-welded pegs. Caution please.
I agree
When I read about guys cutting the peg mounts and re welding them I cringe. Holy fok! Do they know the pressure exerted there and the possible maiming of ones foot that can happen ? Whoa!
PCs lowered peg kit is too cheap, this is one area that i would not be Rube Goldfarbing
Lol




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Old 04-25-2013, 05:49 AM   #76092
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Love those Warp 9 levers! What a bargain! Thanks Procycle!

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Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:09 AM   #76093
Mambo Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I agree
When I read about guys cutting the peg mounts and re welding them I cringe. Holy fok! Do they know the pressure exerted there and the possible maiming of ones foot that can happen ? Whoa!
PCs lowered peg kit is too cheap, this is one area that i would not be Rube Goldfarbing
Lol
So you're saying the footpeg brackets will contain the chain, and that the chain will come out at an angle enough so that re-welded brackets (at least the one on the chain's side) will let it injure a rider worse?
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:49 AM   #76094
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
So you're saying the footpeg brackets will contain the chain, and that the chain will come out at an angle enough so that re-welded brackets (at least the one on the chain's side) will let it injure a rider worse?
I understand from what he's saying that regardless of the chain issue, if you cut and reweld the riders footpegs, and do jumps on the DR, you're risking a broken footpeg, and possibly your ankle. Or worse, a jagged broken footpeg mount ripping your leg open as you land after the peg breaks off.

Nothing to do with the chain at all, though if you're really unlucky, it could break the top roller off at the same time but you may not be in a position to care, at that point.
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Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
Want to know more about the Garmin VIRB? See here.
"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:57 AM   #76095
SkunkWizard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I agree
When I read about guys cutting the peg mounts and re welding them I cringe. Holy fok! Do they know the pressure exerted there and the possible maiming of ones foot that can happen ? Whoa!
PCs lowered peg kit is too cheap, this is one area that i would not be Rube Goldfarbing
Lol




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I would have to disagree on that. If the weld is done correct it will be stronger than any weld on the DR.
I've been a fabricator for over 40 years (aircraft/race car) I challenge anyone to prove these tig welds are not as strong as the factory pegs.



Also note that the bolt holes for the pegs in the frame thread all the way thru. take advantage of using a longer bolt to purchase the entire frame boss



The DR frame is wire welded you should do your cringing on the rest of the bike

Some of the other cringing things I've done to ponder


skid plate made of treated alloy



tool box & pannier rack



can mount w/pinned bracket



brake lever cut reshape & Kevlar/Carbon case guards



garmin mount

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