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Old 04-28-2013, 08:15 AM   #76201
BadDogMax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
be careful checking the rest of the frame for damage. this photo looks like youve got some more damage just forward of the engine mounting. the disturbed paint is a good sign that there has been some movement there. if it were me id be checking the frame as best you can for straightness in every possible dimension you can think of starting with whats already been suggested here. if you happy with the handling and get the bars straightened up (its pretty common for DRs to have bars out of alignment, even after a light drop on the trail) id be marking out all the points on the frame that have the paint either cracked or "bubbled" like in this photo and getting a professional welder to cut those areas out and do a good job welding in some new sections of pipework. you should be able to get that mangled section of spine cut out completely and a new section welded into place. then either paint over the new parts or get the whole thing powdercoated again. or just buy a new frame if its cheaper.
If it were me I'd probably do this (have some gussets welded on to the damaged areas, repaint, and just ride it). You can't really sell it and if it rides OK then why not?

As a kid I broke the steering head away from the frame on an XR75. My neighbor and I had an epic jump that we would challenge each other on, and suddenly on a landing my bike turned into a chopper. The front wheel went way forward and the engine case hit the dirt, throwing me over the handlebars.

After welding some gussets on either side of the break the bike lived to jump another day.

After the repair, on another jump I broke the shocks from being bottomed so hard, but the frame repair showed no signs of cracking (I checked it frequently though - I was definitely leery of another insta-chopper transformation and resulting crash).
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:39 AM   #76202
mega-hertz
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stripped screws!!!

i can't get the screws loose on my carb's float bowl or the throtler cable braket. i might have to drill them out today. dose anybody know what size they are so i can buy them before i get started, i'm going to go get an impact driver today and i would like to replace them with some hard steal screws.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #76203
acesandeights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash alot View Post
pulling the bike apart to put on acerbiz tank and another 1000.00 of goodies, anyway this is the back bone on my frame, does this look right? I think its been wrecked, it seems to ride ok, however I did think the bars were just a little bent.




I used to work as an insurance adjuster handling motorcycle claims for the largest insurer of motorcycles. That is a total loss (in my state and per the company I worked for) and should have a salvage title. Any marks on the forks you see isn't related. The forks involved in the accident would have been unusable. This could really open a can of worms depending on whether you financed this bike or what kind of insurance you have on the bike.

My guess is the original owner totaled it, the second owner buys salvaged vehicles and reconstructs them and that's what happened here. The original owner probably got in the accident, the insurance company totaled the bike and sold it to a salvage yard or salvage buyer that straightened the frame and put a set of used forks, wheel, etc from another salvaged bike. In my state the title would show it was salvage or reconstructed. Going forward, you should really disclose this damage to any new buyer and it would cut the value...probably in half, as the appropriate repair for that is a new frame. Sorry.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #76204
Davis53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mega-hertz View Post
i can't get the screws loose on my carb's float bowl or the throtler cable braket. i might have to drill them out today. dose anybody know what size they are so i can buy them before i get started, i'm going to go get an impact driver today and i would like to replace them with some hard steal screws.
Grab them with some small vice grips, straight on. You need to take the carb off to do this.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:54 AM   #76205
PPCLI-Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I used to work as an insurance adjuster handling motorcycle claims for the largest insurer of motorcycles. That is a total loss (in my state and per the company I worked for) and should have a salvage title. Any marks on the forks you see isn't related. The forks involved in the accident would have been unusable. This could really open a can of worms depending on whether you financed this bike or what kind of insurance you have on the bike.

My guess is the original owner totaled it, the second owner buys salvaged vehicles and reconstructs them and that's what happened here. The original owner probably got in the accident, the insurance company totaled the bike and sold it to a salvage yard or salvage buyer that straightened the frame and put a set of used forks, wheel, etc from another salvaged bike. In my state the title would show it was salvage or reconstructed. Going forward, you should really disclose this damage to any new buyer and it would cut the value...probably in half, as the appropriate repair for that is a new frame. Sorry.
I agree that frame is good to be cut into pieces and thats it, that sort of bend means SERIOUS torque has been applied
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:21 AM   #76206
Adv Grifter
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Some interesting comments about the Bent frame. Shame.
But there are specialists who can straighten frames properly. We have a guy out here in Sacramento, California called The Frame Man. He mostly straightens bent race bikes. Impressive results.

Using Laser alignment, specialized Jigs and hydraulic presses ... those guys have straightened up hundreds of wasted bikes. These specialists are rare, no idea if the OP has any such shops in his region, but might be worth it to look around.

In normal circumstances ... as mentioned ... that frame would be junked. But if the buyer is over a barrel money wise, then straightening might be solution?

If the steering is off it could be simply tweaked forks (easily fixed in 5 minutes) or tweaked rubber dampers below the bar mounts on top triple clamp. Also easy fix ... just push them the opposite way. Bent bars are rare
but with the crash that bike was in, certainly possible. Bars are cheap.
Replace if needed.

If after the forks are straightened (just loosen clamps and tighten back up) and bars are straight in dampers, the bike still is "off" when riding, then its likely the FRAME is not straight.

Weird handling is the other obvious tell tale. Handling should be 100%
neutral. If not ?? ... well, do what you can to fix it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:34 PM   #76207
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash alot View Post
thanks for the picture jaglite...

I guess I should have pulled the tank off before I bought this....but who does that. im just too trusting, no one to blame but me. I could post the dudes name and address who I bought it from, but he was the second owner. however, he wont return my text message.

there was a dent in stock tank and some markes on the fforks , like a low side, but the tank does not represent a crushed frame. and I did fell as if the bars were bent just a tad, so its all my fault I guess. the bike only has 3700miles on it and its a 2011.....but that may not be the actual speed o after seeing this .

motor mounts look new and no cracks in any welds, however the rubber mounts for the tank are off kilter a little. the acerbiz seems like it would stay on when bolted down, I cant lift it off the front.

ive ordered all the good stuff from procycle, jet kit, k&n, pro taper adaptors, full header, dr 250 tail kit, gold valve , heaver springs, pat walsh skid, pat walsh rear rack, extreame spot lights, not to mention protaper bars, gixer pipe with mid pipe, happy trails panniers...it was going to be a nice DR..

I may continue on, gotta sleep on it. thanks for all the replies. heres a shot with a straight edge down the center of frame, it seems to line up with the center of the steering head, but im far from being a frame guy or mechanic.
An insurance company would total that bike, but most people can't get welding/fabricating done for cheap. If you can, that frame can be repaired as good as new. One can cut the tweaked tubes out and weld in new ones. That's the only fix on that frame that I'd trust that wouldn't look like a$$ (like welding sleeves/gussets over tweaked areas would). You can't trust frames that have been bent like that and then half-a$$ straightened. Tiny cracks and brittle areas develop.

I hope you didn't pay much, and that you know a good welder/fabricator. Otherwise, replace that frame or part out the bike.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:05 PM   #76208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Nothing would come of it, they'll simply see it as a civil matter. Small claims court would be the best route to go.
You're probably right on this one but there are criminal statutes in CA. "Theft by deception" basically lying / omitting facts about the product that would reduce it's value. There are also consumer laws that come into play but I'm not sure you could hold them against a non-commercial entity.

That's why I suggested some research on the seller. As mentioned, if they're a "salvage buyer/refurbisher" then they would be subject to consumer laws and in CA they'd have to be licensed by the DMV for that activity.

Best of luck with the fix.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:12 PM   #76209
Motodeficient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mega-hertz View Post
i can't get the screws loose on my carb's float bowl or the throtler cable braket. i might have to drill them out today. dose anybody know what size they are so i can buy them before i get started, i'm going to go get an impact driver today and i would like to replace them with some hard steal screws.
That happened on my stock carb. I got the dremel out ant turned the screws into slotted screws instead of philips screws.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #76210
acesandeights
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Frames can be straightened, and that one was. You can see it was clamped and pulled. Whoever had that bike repaired the damage from the accident to make it straight (or at least close), but bike frames are not like car frames. They don't have crumple zones and sectioning specs like cars do. Bike frames are not meant to be straightened, they are meant to be replaced, and in most places that means a salvaged title associated with that VIN, and significantly decreased value. As someone else posted, it also appears to have damage in other parts of the frame. That frame has been repaired, and you can see by the repair it still needs to be replaced.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #76211
JagLite
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Pissed Wrecked DR deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by crash alot View Post
t

I guess I should have pulled the tank off before I bought this....but who does that. im just too trusting, no one to blame but me.
Not at all!

We know who is to blame.

I would never have thought to pull the tank either UNLESS it was disclosed that the bike had been wrecked and/or was on a rebuilt title.
It is fraud to sell something like this without disclosure.
That is something you could tell the seller if you want out.


motor mounts look new and no cracks in any welds, however the rubber mounts for the tank are off kilter a little. the acerbiz seems like it would stay on when bolted down, I cant lift it off the front.

ive ordered all the good stuff from procycle, jet kit, k&n, pro taper adaptors, full header, dr 250 tail kit, gold valve , heaver springs, pat walsh skid, pat walsh rear rack, extreame spot lights, not to mention protaper bars, gixer pipe with mid pipe, happy trails panniers...it was going to be a nice DR..

I may continue on, gotta sleep on it. thanks for all the replies. heres a shot with a straight edge down the center of frame, it seems to line up with the center of the steering head, but im far from being a frame guy or mechanic.



This picture and the comments of others brings into question the engine mounts even more. Remove one engine mount bolt at a time and see if the bolts all slide in and out easily. IF the frame is bent and is putting stress on one or more of the engine mounts, the bolt will be jammed in place and under tension. NOT acceptable.

That would mean that the engine is holding the frame in shape and that can lead to the stresses on the aluminum engine case mounts could crack the cases over time and vibration.

All the great stuff you have bought will transfer to any DR so that is not lost money.

As mentioned by others, a crash that could bend a frame like that would have destroyed the forks and front wheel also so those parts, and probably the triple clamps too, have been replaced. Most likely from another crashed DR.

If you got a super good deal on the bike it MIGHT be worth keeping.
On the other hand, there are a lot of very good used DR's for sale.

You could send him a text that you want to give him an opportunity to make things right BEFORE you go to the Police and report him for FRAUD and go to the DMV to alert them of a suspicious seller of damaged (unsafe) vehicles.

If he is innocent of knowing about the damage, he will give you your money back.
If he is guilty, he will WANT to give you back your money to keep the Police from knocking on his door.

Keep in mind also that you will NOT be able to sell that bike for what you have in it. Not even close.

You could go visit the Police and, keeping the seller's name out, discuss what they recommend you do to get your money back.
I had a "situation" and after talking with a nice lady cop she offered to accompany me. That made a big difference.
The advice "talk softly and carry a big stick" came to mind.
No charges made, no problem for anyone, but the other person knew he was now on the Police radar.

Just a few more thoughts for your rotten situation.
we want to help any way we can...
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:40 PM   #76212
BergDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
Just realized that when I did my valve check in Cape Town, before putting the bike in a crate for her sea voyage to India, I messed up with the feeler gauges. Instead of using the 0.10 mm (middle of tolerance) for the intake valves, I used the 0.010" = 0.25 mm gauge. Bike starts up easily and runs well, did a 60 mile ride so far but valves sound loud.

I would just go back and redo the valve check but in Cape Town the crankshaft cap got stripped. I got it to TDC by spinning the rear wheel in gear.

I'm just about to set off on a tour around India on Tuesday. How critical is it to redo the valve clearance or can I leave it as it is? Intake valves tighten up over time, right? If I leave it at 0.25 mm instead of 0.10mm, am I doing any damage?
They are a fair bit loose and will hammer the tappet screws and valve stems more as a result. Will it cause any damage, dunno. But revving it will make it worse.

I did the valves on a mates bike the other day. We suspect it was the first time they'd been looked at at 20,000 kms. The inlets were both loose and needed tightening up, and 1 exhaust was loose too. Much quieter now. Were they originally this loose, or did they loosen over time, dunno.

FWIW, I posted this a while back, its how I do the valves:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=371
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #76213
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Jay:
No one has mentioned the acceleration and deceleration ramps on the cam lobes. They're cut to lift and close the valves gently. If your clearances are too loose, the valves are getting slammed open and dropped shut. I'd redo them.
I wish I was there and you were here.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #76214
crash alot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
This picture and the comments of others brings into question the engine mounts even more. Remove one engine mount bolt at a time and see if the bolts all slide in and out easily. IF the frame is bent and is putting stress on one or more of the engine mounts, the bolt will be jammed in place and under tension. NOT acceptable.

That would mean that the engine is holding the frame in shape and that can lead to the stresses on the aluminum engine case mounts could crack the cases over time and vibration.

All the great stuff you have bought will transfer to any DR so that is not lost money.

As mentioned by others, a crash that could bend a frame like that would have destroyed the forks and front wheel also so those parts, and probably the triple clamps too, have been replaced. Most likely from another crashed DR.

If you got a super good deal on the bike it MIGHT be worth keeping.
On the other hand, there are a lot of very good used DR's for sale.

You could send him a text that you want to give him an opportunity to make things right BEFORE you go to the Police and report him for FRAUD and go to the DMV to alert them of a suspicious seller of damaged (unsafe) vehicles.

If he is innocent of knowing about the damage, he will give you your money back.
If he is guilty, he will WANT to give you back your money to keep the Police from knocking on his door.

Keep in mind also that you will NOT be able to sell that bike for what you have in it. Not even close.

You could go visit the Police and, keeping the seller's name out, discuss what they recommend you do to get your money back.
I had a "situation" and after talking with a nice lady cop she offered to accompany me. That made a big difference.
The advice "talk softly and carry a big stick" came to mind.
No charges made, no problem for anyone, but the other person knew he was now on the Police radar.

Just a few more thoughts for your rotten situation.
we want to help any way we can...

no stress there, bolts will come right out (motor mount). from what I can figure, it was straightened ok but not perfect, im not out a shit load of money on the bike, 3300.00. which would have been a good deal, but now the bike is not worth that in this condition, nor would I have bought it. I think the steering head is a couple degrees out of plumb, like someone said, probably not a big deal with knobbies and dual sporting but would not be good for super moto or curve carving.

the guy will not return my text or a stern voice mail with me asking for an explanation. he knew

most likely ill put it back together and sell it to one of u guys and wait for u to discover the totaled frame.

just kidding.....I think ill stiffen up the bent backbone with some pipe cut in half, trick it all out with my stuff, go to Utah in June, and ride the shit out of it. ( tat Utah section to Nevada and back). ill be looking for a silver frame and swap everything out over the winter. used frame that is, ( new frame 1600.00)

win some, lose some.........josh, if your on this forum (don't know if he is an inmate)....go f yourself
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crash alot screwed with this post 04-28-2013 at 06:54 PM
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:25 PM   #76215
Jammin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
it will be noisy and a little down on power. By having more clearance the valve is not opening as much. I have never done it on a bike but if we put too big of a cam in a boat motor we have put more clearance on the rockers with no issues. I can't imagine a bike being any different. Really if you think about it the exhaust are set at .2mm and there is no problems. They usually run less on the intake just because it doesn't get as hot and expand as much.

I always use my rear wheel to find TDC- I worry about breaking that dang cap. Makes it a little easier if someone spins the wheel so you can watch valves and TDC marks.

Good luck!
Thanks for the quick reply. I spun the wheels and got it adjusted properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
They are a fair bit loose and will hammer the tappet screws and valve stems more as a result. Will it cause any damage, dunno. But revving it will make it worse.

I did the valves on a mates bike the other day. We suspect it was the first time they'd been looked at at 20,000 kms. The inlets were both loose and needed tightening up, and 1 exhaust was loose too. Much quieter now. Were they originally this loose, or did they loosen over time, dunno.

FWIW, I posted this a while back, its how I do the valves:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=371
Thanks for the informative link. Good to know about spinning in the wheel in 5th gear. I got it adjusted and she's happy now

Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
Jay:
No one has mentioned the acceleration and deceleration ramps on the cam lobes. They're cut to lift and close the valves gently. If your clearances are too loose, the valves are getting slammed open and dropped shut. I'd redo them.
I wish I was there and you were here.
Yup, figured best to redo it and got it done. Sounding much better now
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