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Old 05-09-2013, 04:39 AM   #76471
blackcap
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Location: Wollongong aka stink-town, Australia
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While we are talking about clutches, I just changed mine out to the Barnett one today. Laid the bike down on the left side, undid everything, installed the new plates and springs, everything slotted in just fine and bolted back up ok. I plugged the breather to keep fuel from pouring out of it while she was laying down (safari tank with small one way valve that has always seemed pretty tow way). Some fuel leaked out of the carburetor (from the float bowl overflow I think, if that is even a thing) but nothing worth worrying about. Stood the bike back up and let sit for 30 minutes or so before starting her up to let the oil go back to where it should be. But when I tried to start, everything turned ok but no ignition. With the choke on or off there was nothing. Given some throttle there was a little single fire every now and then but nothing self-sustaining. Turned the fuel taps off and drained the carb float bowl completely incase there was too much fuel in there for things to work properly but no luck, same result as before. Battery needs a charge, which will have to wait for tomorrow, but now I was hoping to get a small list of things together that I can check tomorrow morning while the battery is charging.

My thought are leaning towards the possibility of the tank pressurizing slightly while the vent was blocked and the extra pressure on the fuel sticking the float bowl needle in place? Otherwise im at a bit of a loss. Anyone else got some suggestions on where to look for problems?
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:52 AM   #76472
8gv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
While we are talking about clutches, I just changed mine out to the Barnett one today. Laid the bike down on the left side, undid everything, installed the new plates and springs, everything slotted in just fine and bolted back up ok. I plugged the breather to keep fuel from pouring out of it while she was laying down (safari tank with small one way valve that has always seemed pretty tow way). Some fuel leaked out of the carburetor (from the float bowl overflow I think, if that is even a thing) but nothing worth worrying about. Stood the bike back up and let sit for 30 minutes or so before starting her up to let the oil go back to where it should be. But when I tried to start, everything turned ok but no ignition. With the choke on or off there was nothing. Given some throttle there was a little single fire every now and then but nothing self-sustaining. Turned the fuel taps off and drained the carb float bowl completely incase there was too much fuel in there for things to work properly but no luck, same result as before. Battery needs a charge, which will have to wait for tomorrow, but now I was hoping to get a small list of things together that I can check tomorrow morning while the battery is charging.

My thought are leaning towards the possibility of the tank pressurizing slightly while the vent was blocked and the extra pressure on the fuel sticking the float bowl needle in place? Otherwise im at a bit of a loss. Anyone else got some suggestions on where to look for problems?
Could some have found its way up to the plugs? I'd pull them and cleans them.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:51 AM   #76473
barko1
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Could some have found its way up to the plugs? I'd pull them and cleans them.
Gas in airbox?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:27 AM   #76474
blackcap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barko1 View Post
Gas in airbox?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Could some have found its way up to the plugs? I'd pull them and cleans them.
both good ideas and easy to do. keep em comin. the more checks i have the more likely i am to find something
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:41 AM   #76475
deathu
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Guys,

Can anyone help me with a picture showing the correct fuel level on a DR650 BST40 carb, as measured with a clear tube connected to the float bowl's drain hole?
I got my float level adjusted correctly, but the fuel level seems too high at about 4mm above the float bowl's gasket surface, with the bike held in an upright position.
I've read that the fuel level measured with this method should be at 1.5mm above the gasket surface, but the instruction did not specifically refer to a DR650 BST40 (although all BST40's are about the same... I'd like to have a confirmation from a DR650 owner with the stock carb).

I'm chasing the rich running issues I currently have... If the float/needle valve assembly is defective this could be THE explanation. But this assembly is kind of expensive, I'd spend the money on a new one only if another DR650 owner can confirm the correct fuel level on a carb that is in a proper functioning order.
I know it's kind of PITA to measure, there is no nipple on the drain hole to attach the tube, one must keep the tube with one hand while undoing the drain screw with the other hand and measuring the level/taking the picture with the third hand but I'd really appreciate if someone could help me.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:02 AM   #76476
thump!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Guys,

Can anyone help me with a picture showing the correct fuel level on a DR650 BST40 carb, as measured with a clear tube connected to the float bowl's drain hole?
I got my float level adjusted correctly, but the fuel level seems too high at about 4mm above the float bowl's gasket surface, with the bike held in an upright position.
I've read that the fuel level measured with this method should be at 1.5mm above the gasket surface, but the instruction did not specifically refer to a DR650 BST40 (although all BST40's are about the same... I'd like to have a confirmation from a DR650 owner with the stock carb).

I'm chasing the rich running issues I currently have... If the float/needle valve assembly is defective this could be THE explanation. But this assembly is kind of expensive, I'd spend the money on a new one only if another DR650 owner can confirm the correct fuel level on a carb that is in a proper functioning order.
I know it's kind of PITA to measure, there is no nipple on the drain hole to attach the tube, one must keep the tube with one hand while undoing the drain screw with the other hand and measuring the level/taking the picture with the third hand but I'd really appreciate if someone could help me.
The o-ring beneath the float valve seat is not expensive and is IMHO the problem 90% of the time with float issues

http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/190797
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #76477
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
I've read that the fuel level measured with this method should be at 1.5mm above the gasket surface, but the instruction did not specifically refer to a DR650 BST40
1.5mm above the gasket surface is the correct OEM specification.
Quote:
I'm chasing the rich running issues I currently have...
The fuel level being 2.5mm higher than it should would cause the mixture to be richer toward the lower end of the rpm range at all openings.
Quote:
If the float/needle valve assembly is defective this could be THE explanation.
Does the idea that the assembly is defective come from setting the float height to 14.7mm and the resultant fuel level being other than 1.5mm above the gasket surface? How many miles are there on the carburetor?
Quote:
But this assembly is kind of expensive, I'd spend the money on a new one only if another DR650 owner can confirm the correct fuel level on a carb that is in a proper functioning order.
A new assembly should not be required unless one or both of the floats leak and have some fuel inside.
Quote:
I know it's kind of PITA to measure, there is no nipple on the drain hole to attach the tube, one must keep the tube with one hand while undoing the drain screw with the other hand and measuring the level/taking the picture with the third hand but I'd really appreciate if someone could help me.
There is an adapter that screws into the bowl in place of the drain screw that greatly simplifies the measuring process.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #76478
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump! View Post
The o-ring beneath the float valve seat is not expensive and is IMHO the problem 90% of the time with float issues
Correct, except that the symptom of a defective o-ring would be that the bowl overflows, rather than the fuel level stabilizing at a level that is too high.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #76479
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
both good ideas and easy to do. keep em comin. the more checks i have the more likely i am to find something
Both of those are good ideas. I'd just pull the plugs and let things sit. Do not clean a modern spark plug.

I never, ever do any work on my bike with the fuel tank ON. With the IMS it's off in less than 3 minutes. I set it aside and then have clear access to everything. YMMV.

Did you happen so soak your new clutch plates in oil before installation?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:55 PM   #76480
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump! View Post
The o-ring beneath the float valve seat is not expensive and is IMHO the problem 90% of the time with float issues

http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/190797
Thanks for the suggestion, but I did already replace that oring. In fact I replaced ALL orings except for the one that sits under the slide guide, which nor suzuki or KTM seem to sell as a replacement part (or at least I couldn't find a part number for it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Does the idea that the assembly is defective come from setting the float height to 14.7mm and the resultant fuel level being other than 1.5mm above the gasket surface?
First of all thank you Derek for the reply.
I would say yes. I didn't actually measure the float height the last time I adjusted it, but rather set the straight edges of the float lobes to be parallel with the gasket surface. AFAIK this corresponds to the correct float height of 14.7mm, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
How many miles are there on the carburetor?
I really don't know... could be anywhere between 30.000 and 100.000 I guess. Note that I replaced a lot of components during the last months/1000 miles, including: all orings apart from the one under the slide guide, slide, slide guide, emulsion tube, jet needle (6F19), pilot jet, pilot air jet, pilot fuel screw, cold start enrichement plunger and it's supporting nut, diaphragm, slide spring.

The tip of the float needle doesn't appear to be worn out but to be honest I did not inspect it under magnification. I was thinking that the float needle seat may also cause a leak, and the BST40 from the Suzuki DR650 doesn't come with a separate, replaceable seat as the KTM one if I understand correctly.





On another topic, I need urgent help with the following issue. During my latest 6-mile commute to work the bike was constantly dying during normal driving. It seems the bike cuts out the ignition when in gear, and the engine dies immediately. At this point it also won't crank unless it's in neutral. The problem was intermittent until I actually had to stop on the side of road, took the seat off and started checking the wires.
Apart from the sidestand safety switch, is there anything else that can cause this? I eventually managed to resume my commute and get to work after playing with the wires but I deffinitely need to recheck everything in the morning before heading back home (it's 11PM now). The sidestand safety switch was elliminated by one of the previous owners, now I have a little green connector with two wires soldered together. I need to know if there is anything else I need to re-check, any obvious sub-systems that can cause the described behavior.

deathu screwed with this post 05-09-2013 at 01:02 PM
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:13 PM   #76481
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
On another topic, I need urgent help with the following issue. During my latest 6-mile commute to work the bike was constantly dying during normal driving. It seems the bike cuts out the ignition when in gear, and the engine dies immediately. At this point it also won't crank unless it's in neutral. The problem was intermittent until I actually had to stop on the side of road, took the seat off and started checking the wires.
Apart from the sidestand safety switch, is there anything else that can cause this? I eventually managed to resume my commute and get to work after playing with the wires but I deffinitely need to recheck everything in the morning before heading back home (it's 11PM now). The sidestand safety switch was elliminated by one of the previous owners, now I have a little green connector with two wires soldered together. I need to know if there is anything else I need to re-check, any obvious sub-systems that can cause the described behavior.
Clutch safety switch. I would also check the wiring for the removed sidestand safety switch with a multi-meter. The solder may have cracked or something.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #76482
8gv
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Could some have found its way up to the plugs? I'd pull them and cleans them.
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea...
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #76483
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea...
I always thought ..... Texas "T" You coming to BBA next week?? on the DR?
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #76484
8gv
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
I always thought ..... Texas "T" You coming to BBA next week?? on the DR?
Unable. I screwed up my back, for the first time ever, helping my son move. I have P.T. and a back cracker for a month. The good news is it doesn't hurt when I ride, sleep or...., only when I walk. Tipping over could leave me stranded for a while.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:46 PM   #76485
sunthechip
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Help

Stripped inspection screw

I was adjusting the valves today and when I put the plug back in the hole (the one where you check for the t-mark) and tightened it. I heard a snap, then the plug wouldn't tighten anymore - I just kept spinning as I was wrenching. I unscrewed it and now the threads are stripped on the inside of the hole. How do I fix it? I think I caused this back when I didn't have a torque-wrench. Should I drain the oil and pull the cover off to look for metal bits? Thanks
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