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Old 05-13-2013, 12:56 PM   #76561
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
The stock carb can be improved significantly with a kit from Procycle.
The CO trace in this chart indicates otherwise:




Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:10 PM   #76562
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
The CO trace in this chart indicates otherwise:




Regards,

Derek
That's a run sheet for a DynoJet kit, if the info at the bottom is correct. Procycle has sold several different carb kits. While the DJ kit has been one of them, IIRC, it is not the only one. They also sell Factory Pro and another kit of unlabeled origin. With the unlabeled kit and a stock muff, 4th clip position and a 155 main would be pretty rich unless operated below sea level and/or in very cold conditions. The unlabeled kit uses Mikuni-type main jets too, IIRC. Not DJ main jets. A DJ 155 might be about right for somewhere sea-level or above with a stock muff, but the 155 Mikuni is pretty much for an opened airbox AND a free-flowing exhaust at sea level.

Kommando screwed with this post 05-13-2013 at 03:18 PM
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #76563
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
That's a run sheet for a DynoJet kit, if the info at the bottom is correct. Procycle has sold several different carb kits. While the DJ kit has been one of them, IIRC, it is not the only one. They also sell Factory Pro and another kit of unlabeled origin.
See http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/dr650.html#jetkitdr650 and http://www.procycle.us/info/question...l#pc_jet_kit-1. In the second link it says that the ProCycle kit needle has the same profile as the DJ. While the FP kit will have a more useful needle profile, note that there will be accelerated emulsion tube wear due to the titanium material it's made from.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:45 PM   #76564
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I've already said many times that I have not tuned one.
DR650 that is.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:52 PM   #76565
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
DR650 that is.
What point is it you are trying to make?

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Derek
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:53 PM   #76566
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Exhaust question?

-BST carb (shimmed needle, stock jets, 2nd slide hole drilled, pilot screw, iridium plugs)
-Stock airbox with snorkle removed
-14 tooth CS
-zero plans on engine big-bore mods
-much of my riding is off-road at elevation (5-14K) and lower speeds. i use my DR as a touring dual-sport. often i'm chugging up a dirt hill in 1st gear loaded with camping gear.
-paved road speeds are in the 70-80 mph range at the most.
-I really like how the bike runs now. linear and strong with plenty of 1st gear grunt to take off.

Adding my GSXR-40 muffler back on to the bike to loose weight and breath better.

Normal Jesse mid-pipe w/ stock header or bigger mid-pipe and Jesse's big header???

Is there any advantage to the big header except on the top end? Is a pumper carb needed to take advantage of the big header?

I'm leaning towards the regular mid-pipe, stock header. Should I consider the bigger stuff at all for my situation?
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:59 PM   #76567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
What point is it you are trying to make?

Regards,

Derek
I'd say that PC is questioning your 100%-knowing-the-answer BST carb tuning expertise when you have only tuned for the KTM 640 motor and not the DR650 motor.

I have no doubt you are an expert carb tuner and thank you for the immense help you have provided me and others, but myself, I would never attempt to be expert/answerer/solution-guy for something I have not personally worked on. That's just me, but you are very confident that your KTM 640 motor experience translates over to DR650 knowledge.

I'd say PC is questioning you on that?
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #76568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
I'd say that PC is questioning your 100%-knowing-the-answer BST carb tuning expertise when you have only tuned for the KTM 640 motor and not the DR650 motor.
I'd prefer if he spoke for himself.
Quote:
I have no doubt you are an expert carb tuner and thank you for the immense help you have provided me and others, but myself, I would never attempt to be expert/answerer/solution-guy for something I have not personally worked on.
I've worked on many BST40 carbs.
Quote:
That's just me, but you are very confident that your KTM 640 motor experience translates over to DR650 knowledge.
It has nothing to do with KTM640 tuning experience per se. It has to do with tuning CV carburetors in general. The trends are the trends. In my experience a needle with a shape such as the DJ needle has will always make the top end leaner than the bottom end, so the needle is at least in part responsible for the strangely shaped CO trace we see in the graph. Opening up the airbox and installing the appropriate main jet for correct high rpm mixture always trends toward making the lower rpm richer than it should be (the more it's opened the worse this gets), so you would need a needle that does the opposite in order to counter that trend. Obviously you would not want to install a needle with a shape that exhibits the same trend.

Regards,

Derelk
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:45 PM   #76569
barko1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Obviously you would not want to install a needle with a shape that exhibits the same trend.

Regards,

Derelk
So what needle do you recommend?
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:48 PM   #76570
motolab
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Originally Posted by barko1 View Post
So what needle do you recommend?
The first needle I would try would be the non-USA adjustable OEM needle.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:25 PM   #76571
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
Exhaust question?

-BST carb (shimmed needle, stock jets, 2nd slide hole drilled, pilot screw, iridium plugs)
-Stock airbox with snorkle removed
-14 tooth CS
-zero plans on engine big-bore mods
-much of my riding is off-road at elevation (5-14K) and lower speeds. i use my DR as a touring dual-sport. often i'm chugging up a dirt hill in 1st gear loaded with camping gear.
-paved road speeds are in the 70-80 mph range at the most.
-I really like how the bike runs now. linear and strong with plenty of 1st gear grunt to take off.

Adding my GSXR-40 muffler back on to the bike to loose weight and breath better.

Normal Jesse mid-pipe w/ stock header or bigger mid-pipe and Jesse's big header???

Is there any advantage to the big header except on the top end? Is a pumper carb needed to take advantage of the big header?

I'm leaning towards the regular mid-pipe, stock header. Should I consider the bigger stuff at all for my situation?
I'm no expert, but at your altitude, I'd be trying to flow as much air as I could when at max altitude, then tune the carbing to suit for down low when you close off portions of the airbox intake.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:28 PM   #76572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barko1 View Post
So what needle do you recommend?
Motolab Derek is not a fan of this technique, but many of us have added 1 or 2 stainless steel washers under the USA needle clip to slightly raise the needle up and thus release more gas on the main jet.

Each washer is approx 1 clip position change on an adjustable needle. The KLR guys call this the 22 cent mod. I have 2 washers and i'm happy with it. Derek does not like how this technique creates a small amount more of preload on the slide spring vrs the adjustable needle where the needle moves up in the spring but the spring itself is not pushed together tighter.

To me it was cheap and it worked. I'm on stock jets. I'm sure there might be a ever so slight change in the spring tension, but it's such a small amount, i'm not sweating it. I tried 1 washer and then 2 & liked it better. I tried 3 and not so much.

I also have a pilot fuel screw which i play with depending on my elevation.
I've spent 6 months riding at sea level, plus ride up to 14,000' in the summer all on the same carb setup and it runs at all those elevations. The only thing i tweak per elevation is move many turns out i'm on with the pilot jet.

Sure i'd love FI, but this CV carb really does work on a huge range of elevations.
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eakins screwed with this post 05-13-2013 at 03:36 PM
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:35 PM   #76573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
I'm no expert, but at your altitude, I'd be trying to flow as much air as I could when at max altitude, then tune the carbing to suit for down low when you close off portions of the airbox intake.
thanks.

never had to do any changes to the airbox even at sea level. thought i might need to put the snorkle back in to reduce airflow but it was not needed. i've read how others have removed the airbox cover when riding at very high elevations to try and gain as much air as possible but I haven't needed this either.

really wondering if the extra expense is worth it on my bike for the fat header when i'm not a wide open down the hiway throttle rider? when i'm at those high elevations i'm usually in lower gears going slower anyway.

guess my question to any pipe tuners out there: does a fat header affect performance across all throttle ranges or just head at the top/max throttle?
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:52 PM   #76574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
The first needle I would try would be the non-USA adjustable OEM needle.

Regards,

Derek
Best we could get from it was raising it half a clip and pulling the snorkel.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #76575
barko1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
The first needle I would try would be the non-USA adjustable OEM needle.

Regards,

Derek
Where does one get it? Thx
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