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Old 05-15-2013, 09:20 PM   #76681
SteelJM1
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
stainless brake lines help.
a different master cyl with a larger bore helps.
larger rotor helps alot.
That's the problem, its the stock rmz rotor which is smaller in diameter and seems to have a smaller contact patch. I'm wondering if the howl is a symptom of why it doesnt brake as well as i feel it should. I have an ss brake line, stock mc.

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Old 05-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #76682
motolab
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
You've found that to happen on the KTM640 BST40 but that motor is know to be a very high vibrational motor, one of the worst infact. You've also said you've never worked with tuning a DR650 motor, which is know to be one of the smoothest.

Is it possible the the high vibration 640 motor caused that wear vrs the actual 2nd hole in the slide??? Many of us have had drilled slides for years yet no one has displayed a worn needle like you show from the 640 BST. You profess that that extra drilled hole on a DR BST will in fact vibrate it to it's grave, but is that a fact or just your opinion/theory?
There is no way around the fact that the less damping the slide has the greater its excursion will be. There is also no way around the fact that a greater excursion means more wear. On the KTM, I have documented this roughly in terms of inches of slide guide wear per 1K miles with standard lift hole area (two stock holes) at 0.0017" vs. drilled (to .125") at 0.0042". The reason I say roughly is because dirt ingress (due to poor diaphragm underside vent filtration) and riding style (lots of varying throttle openings vs. nothing but freeway cruising for example) also affect slide guide wear. I don't think engine vibration is much of a factor, as BST40-equipped GSX-R750RKs wear out the slide guides as do various BST36-equipped 3 and 4 cylinder Triumphs and 4 cylinder Suzukis such as the GSX1100G.
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I'm on 6 yrs of a drilled slide and my needle looks new and my slide and guide and not all torn up like your KTM pictures.
What is the current depth of the indentations concentric to the bore in the bottom corners of the slide guide (best to measure them both as the guide sometimes wears crooked)? How many miles are there on the carb? How many of these were accumulated prior to drilling and how many after?
Quote:
Everyone with a drilled 2nd hole in the slide > do any of you have a worn out needle, slide or carrier???
Do the DR650 owners who ordered slide guides from me to replace their worn out ones count?
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I believe knowledge is a collective not 1 person.
So, by analogy, if you're the first person to figure out that the earth is spherical, is it fact not so because everyone else still believes it to be flat?

I'd also like to ask, why do you think Suzuki engineers opted to go from two lift holes to one, and from a bare brass emulsion tube to a nickel plated one in 1996?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:51 PM   #76683
procycle
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Front wheel.
Oop!
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procycle screwed with this post 05-15-2013 at 10:07 PM
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #76684
motolab
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Asking for proof to back up his claims is what got me labeled as "uncivilized"
See http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73043, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73040, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73054 & http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73059.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #76685
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Do the DR650 owners who ordered slide guides from me to replace their worn out ones count?
How many of those DR650 owners had drilled slides? It's much more likely that the wear came from dirt and dust sucked in through a poorly maintained secondary air filter. That is the real threat for premature wear.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:03 PM   #76686
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Yup. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
So far you have made the claims but shown zero evidence.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:04 PM   #76687
motolab
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
But yeah, it does not do a full open and close - nowhere near that much movement.
Quote:
I tried to get him to stick his finger in a running carb to prove himself wrong.
To prove me wrong, I would first have had to say that the slide opens and closes fully at each intake event.

Now if it did open and close fully at every intake event to begin with, then what possible difference could lift hole area make?

In other words, the slide opening and closing fully at every intake event completely defeats the premise of my entire argument, so how could I possibly think that?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #76688
motolab
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yup. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I have not made any extraordinary claims.

What is the definition of "extraordinary evidence"? As far as I know evidence is evidence, and it is either sufficient, or it is not.
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So far you have made the claims but shown zero evidence.
What specific claims are you referring to?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:26 PM   #76689
motolab
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
It's much more likely that the wear came from dirt and dust sucked in through a poorly maintained secondary air filter. That is the real threat for premature wear.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that dirt and dust sucked in through a poorly maintained secondary air filter would wear out slide guides on BST40-equipped GSX-R750RKs, various BST36-equipped 3- and 4-cylinder Triumphs, and various 4-cylinder Suzukis such as the GSX1100G and GSF1200, as these models don't have secondary air filters and are not generally ridden in the dirt.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:44 PM   #76690
procycle
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
What specific claims are you referring to?
see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73032
You state that an adjustable OEM needle can successfully be used to tune a DR650 with an open airbox.
You have made this claim in different ways and at different times but when you are asked for evidence of this you trot out your opinions about trends, shapes and traces instead of talking about examples of results.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:14 PM   #76691
eakins
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:22 PM   #76692
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I would like to hear from other DR owners (only please) who have drilled their slide with a 2nd hole and thus have worn out their needle or the slide or guide. I'm open to all possibilities.

Anyone? Bueller?

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AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:31 PM   #76693
motolab
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=73032
You state that an adjustable OEM needle can successfully be used to tune a DR650 with an open airbox.
You have made this claim in different ways and at different times but when you are asked for evidence of this you trot out your opinions about trends, shapes and traces instead of talking about examples of results.
We can also turn this around. We have evidence in the form of a dyno chart that shows that the DJ needle does not work. Because of the wacky shape of the DJ needle, I consider the claim that it works well to be extraordinary. I have searched extensively and asked repeatedly for a chart that shows that the DJ needle produces a reasonably flat CO trace. I have not been able to come up with one, and to my knowledge, neither has anyone else.

I have also not seen a dyno chart that shows that a needle such as the non-USA OEM, KTM 6G5 or the FP kit needle produce a CO trace that is less flat than the DJ needle produces.

It's been quite a few years ago now, but I have dyno charts where I experimented with shapes such as the DJ needle has in order to try to lean out the bottom and richen the top. These charts illustrate that the opposite happened. There are a good amount of them, because I tried the same thing over and over again before I could get through my head that how I was thinking about CV carb needle shape was wrong. I even thought that if a little bit in that direction wasn't doing it, then maybe a bunch more would. It's really quite embarrassing in retrospect. Anyhow, I also have charts where I used shapes that actually helped, and those shapes are in one critical way opposite to the direction the DJ needle goes. That's what I've done since, when possible (sometimes the choices are limited by availability/budget), and it always works. If anyone likes (and matters can be kept civil), we can discuss what shapes do work and why, as well as which ones don't, and why.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 05-15-2013 at 11:52 PM
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:43 PM   #76694
motolab
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
I would like to hear from other DR owners (only please) who have drilled their slide with a 2nd hole and thus have worn out their needle or the slide or guide. I'm open to all possibilities.
Better than that would be people providing:

1) The depth of the depressions concentric to the bore in the bottom corners of the slide guide.
2) Whether or not the slide was drilled.
3) If it was drilled, what the lift hole diameter (or better yet, area) is.
4) How many total miles there are on the slide guide.
5) How many miles ago the lift hole area was increased.
6) What the under-diaphragm carb vent filtration consists of.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 05-16-2013 at 09:13 AM
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:47 AM   #76695
Magnum Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
I would like to hear from other DR owners (only please) who have drilled their slide with a 2nd hole and thus have worn out their needle or the slide or guide. I'm open to all possibilities.

Anyone? Bueller?

OK. I,ve done 10,000klm's only with the 2nd hole. But havn't had the carb apart again to check for wear since cos it goes so awsomely there is no need. DJ kit etc
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