ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-17-2013, 12:22 AM   #76756
NordieBoy
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Yes.0.020" (0.51mm).On the KTM, it would be 0.010" (0.25mm). The '96 & up DR650 might tolerate a little more because the emulsion tube is nickel plated. That advantage would again mostly be negated by the use of a stainless steel or titanium needle.Regards,

Derek
The NZ/AU spec emulsion tube is brass.
NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 06:40 AM   #76757
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
if you are referring to me as the you:
"but at the same time wonder why you choose to direct all sort of vitriol at Motolab."

that is not me. i've always said I just want to hear some 2nd hand feedback from someone besides Motolab. thanks for the response.
No eakins, that was not directed at you. I find your posts to be quite informative and level-headed. That comment was directed at other inmates that choose to pop in, fire off a few salvos and then bail.

I think the point Derek may be trying to make, thru copious detail, is that you can have your carb perform better than stock, help the engine make more power and at the same time not subject it to accelerated wear. It's painfully obvious that the open air box, DJ kit, drilled slide and GSXR muffler do wonders for the bike but at what cost? Accelerated wear. For some of you (as eakins pointed out), that's the "cost of doing business" and are OK with that. I have no issue with that either and if the parts you purchase, to replace worn ones, keep those parts available, for when I need them, fantastic. My carb, before rebuild, was pretty much worn out. The motor still seemed to run just fine. But, to me, it could be made to operate more efficiently and at a lower cost per mile. That's got my name written all over it.

There are a multitude of combinations that will work here, obviously. Is one 'better' than another? That's subjective. This subject is hard enough to understand and with the various combinations, anyone trying to figure this out, by reading the thread, will get lost very quickly (I have a basic grasp and get lost quickly). It's too bad we couldn't consolidate information someplace. The problem is lack of concrete information; I'm sure everyone would be willing to share the info but without a baseline, or dyno run, it's not going to be the database it could be.

We just need to agree to disagree and let it go at that.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 06:47 AM   #76758
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv
I'm pretty sure I have the same connector, in the same location. You should be OK.

One thing I do notice is that your secondary carb breather (black barrel shaped object to the left of the air box snorkel) appears to have lost, or ingested, the foam filter. I would highly suggest you rectify that immediately. You can easily replace the foam or get one from Pro Cycle:

__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 06:54 AM   #76759
motoracer51
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Western Colorado
Oddometer: 602
Hey guys - I have a fueling/jetting issue on my all stock 2007 DR650.

Th other day when I went to ride the bike, I noticed that all of a sudden the bike is idling high - about 2K, or just a bit higher.

The idle adjuster is all backed out and the throttle cam ( is that the correct term) is stopping/resting when at idle on the idle adjustment threaded housing( the housing that the actual adjustable idle crew rides in).

I'm at 4200' and until this occurred, the bike has been running flawlessly with perfect carbueration and great MPG(about 60-70mpg, but then again, I drive like a grandma).

Thanks!
motoracer51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 07:44 AM   #76760
8gv
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North central CT
Oddometer: 2,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
I'm pretty sure I have the same connector, in the same location. You should be OK.

One thing I do notice is that your secondary carb breather (black barrel shaped object to the left of the air box snorkel) appears to have lost, or ingested, the foam filter. I would highly suggest you rectify that immediately. You can easily replace the foam or get one from Pro Cycle:

There is a thin foam filter in the black can that I cleaned and put back into service, but I do like yours more.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #76761
TrophyHunter
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 1,950
Yes. Or run by your local auto parts store and look at their filter selection. Crankcase breather filter maybe.

http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm
__________________
www.dualsportmoto.com
2005 DR650 2003 DRZ-250
2013 HD Road King '73 Hodaka Wombat

"It's a small amount of gas, but it represents a long walk" My Dad...
TrophyHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #76762
Mambo Dave
Backyard Adventurer
 
Mambo Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: 11 ft. AMSL
Oddometer: 4,977
I cut up and used part of a synthetic sponge to replace the thinner foam in that breather.

Seems to work.

Later on I also coated that same sponge with air filter oil.
__________________
"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
RyanR
Mambo Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:06 AM   #76763
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 5,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
One thing I do notice is that your secondary carb breather (black barrel shaped object to the left of the air box snorkel) appears to have lost, or ingested, the foam filter. I would highly suggest you rectify that immediately. You can easily replace the foam or get one from Pro Cycle:
The stock secondary air filter is a weak link and it's often overlooked. The problem is that it's only 3/16" thick and dry. That's why I think Rusty's idea is so important.

More details in the link.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=111

Mine, stock and oiled.


Cleaned and dry.



__________________
2004 DR650: 61,211 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #76764
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
There are a multitude of combinations that will work here, obviously. Is one 'better' than another? That's subjective. This subject is hard enough to understand and with the various combinations, anyone trying to figure this out, by reading the thread, will get lost very quickly (I have a basic grasp and get lost quickly). It's too bad we couldn't consolidate information someplace. The problem is lack of concrete information; I'm sure everyone would be willing to share the info but without a baseline, or dyno run, it's not going to be the database it could be.

We just need to agree to disagree and let it go at that.
Very well said.
I have not looked at the Carb thread on the DR650 Index in quite a while ... but maybe things there are more orderly? Or could be a place for the baseline info you refer to?
Dyno documentation is ideal ... but not everyone can afford to pay for Dyno runs after every tuning change they make.

Your endorsement of Derek re customer service is impressive.
I intend to check out his Vendor thread and see if I can get a deal on getting my old BST rebuilt. Anyone else going that route?
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:32 AM   #76765
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
There is a thin foam filter in the black can that I cleaned and put back into service, but I do like yours more.
Either one is OK if taken care of. If you ride in dusty conditions they need to be cleaned frequently. (possibly daily?)

I broke the flimsy plastic cage that holds the foam insert on the stock filter. I went the red K & N style filter shown earlier. It needs to be cleaned and oiled frequently also. In severe dust I zipp tie a bit of "Filter Skin" cloth over the K & N filter. Seems to extend service range, inside of Carb stays pristine.

All the extra plugs are for other Suzuki models. Check their voltages (most are 12V), some switched, some un-switched. Some can be used to power accessories. Find correct mating plug or cut off stock one and use your own plug. There are two or three in/around battery area and another handy one
in headlight nacelle.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #76766
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv
There is a thin foam filter in the black can that I cleaned and put back into service, but I do like yours more.
That's actually a picture from Pro Cycle's web site. But, I do have one of those units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2
The stock secondary air filter is a weak link and it's often overlooked. The problem is that it's only 3/16" thick and dry. That's why I think Rusty's idea is so important.
I was hoping you'd post that. My secondary filter had been ingested by the carb, when I aquired the bike, which is most likely why all the internals were worn out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter
Very well said.
I have not looked at the Carb thread on the DR650 Index in quite a while ... but maybe things there are more orderly? Or could be a place for the baseline info you refer to?
Dyno documentation is ideal ... but not everyone can afford to pay for Dyno runs after every tuning change they make.

Your endorsement of Derek re customer service is impressive.
I intend to check out his Vendor thread and see if I can get a deal on getting my old BST rebuilt. Anyone else going that route?
I haven't visited the Carb Thread, in a while, either. It's distinctly possible things are a little more under control over there. Does Krusty run that thread? His posts are pretty tidy.

That would be the place for the baseline information. I'm sure it would be easy to gather info on jets, needles, air boxes, exhaust systems, etc. But, everyone's "ass dyno" is different. Now, we're back to the subjective part again. [roll eyes]. And, I know that a dyno run isn't within everyone's reach. So, we're really still without some sort of baseline and I'll even bet that identical changes to two different DR650s will yield different results. So.......where do you go, what do you do? I really have no idea. I'm a web developer by profession and know about databases. I'd be happy to collect data but I have no idea how useful it would be without some sort of method (dyno) to test the results. And, again, dynos are different, bikes are different, etc. There's really no way to get conclusive evidence unless you want to throw a $hit ton of money at all sort of parts and then take the time to make every permutation modification and test. None of us have time for that (we'd all rather be out riding ).

I would guess that I would be happy with a bone stock DR. My DR didn't come to me like that so, after research, I made changes that suit my riding style. I like simplicity and reliability. A while ago, I posted, in the DR350 thread; While I do not mind wrenching on the DR in the garage. I would prefer not to wrench on it trail side. That still holds true today. Now, one can argue that none of the carb changes are elaborate or complicated. True. If you know what you've done, there's no reason you can't figure out what needs to be addressed, if you have an issue. Once all of the carb modifications are made, there should be no reason why you'd need to mess with things while on a trip/adventure. But, if something does happen, and your set-up is so totally different from stock, you may have a hard time getting going again. Stuff like that bugs me, so I tend to shy away from them. Other riders are different; they have more faith in their ability to resolve an issue trail-side or they simply don't care as long as their DR makes ONE MILLION horsepower. To each his own. And, the type of riding I do is very mild compared to some of the things I've seen posted in here. I'm OK with that. I could probably get away with riding an adventure/touring BMW or KTM. But, I don't want a monster like that (watching Ewan & Charley push those monster BMWs around Mongolia was painful enough and I was sitting down). The DR is the right combination of "do it all" that I can afford. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are bone stock and happy. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are slightly modified and happy. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are highly modified and happy.The common part is that they're happy with their bike. If you're not, make the modifications that make sense to you (and become happy). Seems pretty simple. Arguing over what modifications are better/worse just seems counter-productive and a waste of time. As long as things are subjective, no one will ever win any of these arguments. And, things are VERY subjective.

As for Derek's customer service, you owe it to yourself to at least consult with him to see if his approach to carb tuning is in line with yours. If it is, then you'll have a good source for parts and information. If it is not, look elsewhere. I can guarantee Derek would have no issue with this approach.

I have also done business with Pro Cycle and dealt with Jeff on a personal level. His customer service is no less impressive. We're very fortunate that we can gather feedback directly from the business owner. There are a lot of businesses that would prefer to have a level of disconnect. These guys choose not to. Even if you have no intention of dealing with them or do not share their views, you have to respect the fact that they choose this medium to have a level of exposure (both for their businesses and their person). To be rude to them or insist they don't know of which they speak is out-of-line.

OK, I've said enough. Perhaps we can continue discussing DR650s and how much fun they are.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #76767
8gv
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North central CT
Oddometer: 2,291
At the risk of earning "ignore" status...

I got my carb back together last night and took it for a ride today. It behaves poorly from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. Just off idle is ok. At full throttle, once it catches up, it's a friggin' rocket.

I have experience with two strokes doing this. On a 2T I'd call it a bog or loading up. On those I think the spark plug would have too much fuel/oil mix on it and misfire until it could clean up. I present this as the closest approximation of my bikes current behavior.

What I think I know:

Bike has 3160 miles.

Carb is stock and is clean (I did that). There is one hole in the slide next to the needle hole.

Idle mixture screw is at 1 turn out, it was previously at 1/2 turn out and is a little better just off idle now.

Valves are in spec, I don't know if they were done at the 600 mile interval but when I checked them this week the intakes were mid-spec and the exhaust were at the tight side of the spec. Now they're mid-spec.

Exhaust is stock.

Air box is unmolested.

Plugs are new and gapped correctly.

Enrichment system works as it should. It helps somewhat when i pull the enrichment lever.

Oil level is a little high with the oil hitting the high mark half way between vertical and leaning on the stand.

This feels more like an intermittent ignition issue than carburation. I am considering pulling the spark plug cap off one of the plugs (and then another) to see what happens.

I have the plug caps on their nearest plug. I assume they fire simultaneously.


Here's my typed interpretation of what it feels like:

VrrrrrvavavarrrrrvavavaROOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!
(during the vavava part I might get a light backfire as well)

If I hold the throttle steady at maybe 40% it will do this so it doesn't seem to be a momentary gasping from a quick twist.

I understand that CV carbs have their flat spot idiosyncrasies but I doubt anyone would consider this to be normal.

So DR detectives, what say ye?
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #76768
spjinseattle
Strom and DR Rider
 
spjinseattle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 18
Need Help from the DR Gods

I've got a 2007 DR650, stock pipe, stock carb, no airbox mods. Last year I had a hot-to-ground short that fried my wiring harness (if you have to know, it was because some idiot driving on the wrong side of the road clipped my pannier [thank God not my leg!] which had a 12v plug for charging electronics in it... another idiot [me] tucked the cut wire under my seat... touch frame... induce short. Important lesson learned].

Anyway, entirely new wiring harness and she was back in business. I did a 500 mile trip with the new harness last October, filled and stabilized the fuel, and parked it for the Winter. In March I pulled the bike out, changed the oil, cleaned the filter, changed plugs, started her up and went for a ride. About 15 minutes down the road, I started getting jumpy throttle, bogging at acceleration, then after trying to flog it, she just cut out, back-fired, and died. Since then I drained the old gas, did an off bike cleaning of the carb, fixed a ceased choke with the Procycle unit, added a mixture screw, had the valves checked/adjusted by a dealer who also confirmed the carb is all good, and alas... the same darn problem. Bike starts and idles fine, runs okay until officially warmed up, then starts getting jumpy at idle, bogs on throttle, backfires, dies.

Anyone have ideas for things to check?! I'm at my wits' end.
spjinseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #76769
joefromsf
Dark Happens
 
joefromsf's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 1,471
Could be a vapor lock in the gas tank. What kind of tank and gas cap do you have? Note that you can usually tell if its vapor lock by immediately opening the gas cap when it dies. If you hear air being sucked in, then it was probably vapor lock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spjinseattle View Post
I've got a 2007 DR650, stock pipe, stock carb, no airbox mods. Last year I had a hot-to-ground short that fried my wiring harness (if you have to know, it was because some idiot driving on the wrong side of the road clipped my pannier [thank God not my leg!] which had a 12v plug for charging electronics in it... another idiot [me] tucked the cut wire under my seat... touch frame... induce short. Important lesson learned].

Anyway, entirely new wiring harness and she was back in business. I did a 500 mile trip with the new harness last October, filled and stabilized the fuel, and parked it for the Winter. In March I pulled the bike out, changed the oil, cleaned the filter, changed plugs, started her up and went for a ride. About 15 minutes down the road, I started getting jumpy throttle, bogging at acceleration, then after trying to flog it, she just cut out, back-fired, and died. Since then I drained the old gas, did an off bike cleaning of the carb, fixed a ceased choke with the Procycle unit, added a mixture screw, had the valves checked/adjusted by a dealer who also confirmed the carb is all good, and alas... the same darn problem. Bike starts and idles fine, runs okay until officially warmed up, then starts getting jumpy at idle, bogs on throttle, backfires, dies.

Anyone have ideas for things to check?! I'm at my wits' end.
__________________
--Joe .................................... http://joefromsf.smugmug.com/

We can't crash an infinite amount of times, so you better learn from every one! (by ARZ)
joefromsf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #76770
motolab
Beastly Adventurer
 
motolab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Oddometer: 2,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
It behaves poorly from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.
How does it behave if the throttle is pinned right from low rpm?

Regards,

Derek
motolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014