ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-17-2013, 11:32 AM   #76756
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
There is a thin foam filter in the black can that I cleaned and put back into service, but I do like yours more.
Either one is OK if taken care of. If you ride in dusty conditions they need to be cleaned frequently. (possibly daily?)

I broke the flimsy plastic cage that holds the foam insert on the stock filter. I went the red K & N style filter shown earlier. It needs to be cleaned and oiled frequently also. In severe dust I zipp tie a bit of "Filter Skin" cloth over the K & N filter. Seems to extend service range, inside of Carb stays pristine.

All the extra plugs are for other Suzuki models. Check their voltages (most are 12V), some switched, some un-switched. Some can be used to power accessories. Find correct mating plug or cut off stock one and use your own plug. There are two or three in/around battery area and another handy one
in headlight nacelle.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #76757
Bronco638
Nobody Home
 
Bronco638's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Itasca, IL
Oddometer: 3,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv
There is a thin foam filter in the black can that I cleaned and put back into service, but I do like yours more.
That's actually a picture from Pro Cycle's web site. But, I do have one of those units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2
The stock secondary air filter is a weak link and it's often overlooked. The problem is that it's only 3/16" thick and dry. That's why I think Rusty's idea is so important.
I was hoping you'd post that. My secondary filter had been ingested by the carb, when I aquired the bike, which is most likely why all the internals were worn out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter
Very well said.
I have not looked at the Carb thread on the DR650 Index in quite a while ... but maybe things there are more orderly? Or could be a place for the baseline info you refer to?
Dyno documentation is ideal ... but not everyone can afford to pay for Dyno runs after every tuning change they make.

Your endorsement of Derek re customer service is impressive.
I intend to check out his Vendor thread and see if I can get a deal on getting my old BST rebuilt. Anyone else going that route?
I haven't visited the Carb Thread, in a while, either. It's distinctly possible things are a little more under control over there. Does Krusty run that thread? His posts are pretty tidy.

That would be the place for the baseline information. I'm sure it would be easy to gather info on jets, needles, air boxes, exhaust systems, etc. But, everyone's "ass dyno" is different. Now, we're back to the subjective part again. [roll eyes]. And, I know that a dyno run isn't within everyone's reach. So, we're really still without some sort of baseline and I'll even bet that identical changes to two different DR650s will yield different results. So.......where do you go, what do you do? I really have no idea. I'm a web developer by profession and know about databases. I'd be happy to collect data but I have no idea how useful it would be without some sort of method (dyno) to test the results. And, again, dynos are different, bikes are different, etc. There's really no way to get conclusive evidence unless you want to throw a $hit ton of money at all sort of parts and then take the time to make every permutation modification and test. None of us have time for that (we'd all rather be out riding ).

I would guess that I would be happy with a bone stock DR. My DR didn't come to me like that so, after research, I made changes that suit my riding style. I like simplicity and reliability. A while ago, I posted, in the DR350 thread; While I do not mind wrenching on the DR in the garage. I would prefer not to wrench on it trail side. That still holds true today. Now, one can argue that none of the carb changes are elaborate or complicated. True. If you know what you've done, there's no reason you can't figure out what needs to be addressed, if you have an issue. Once all of the carb modifications are made, there should be no reason why you'd need to mess with things while on a trip/adventure. But, if something does happen, and your set-up is so totally different from stock, you may have a hard time getting going again. Stuff like that bugs me, so I tend to shy away from them. Other riders are different; they have more faith in their ability to resolve an issue trail-side or they simply don't care as long as their DR makes ONE MILLION horsepower. To each his own. And, the type of riding I do is very mild compared to some of the things I've seen posted in here. I'm OK with that. I could probably get away with riding an adventure/touring BMW or KTM. But, I don't want a monster like that (watching Ewan & Charley push those monster BMWs around Mongolia was painful enough and I was sitting down). The DR is the right combination of "do it all" that I can afford. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are bone stock and happy. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are slightly modified and happy. I can guarantee that there are DR owners that read this thread, are highly modified and happy.The common part is that they're happy with their bike. If you're not, make the modifications that make sense to you (and become happy). Seems pretty simple. Arguing over what modifications are better/worse just seems counter-productive and a waste of time. As long as things are subjective, no one will ever win any of these arguments. And, things are VERY subjective.

As for Derek's customer service, you owe it to yourself to at least consult with him to see if his approach to carb tuning is in line with yours. If it is, then you'll have a good source for parts and information. If it is not, look elsewhere. I can guarantee Derek would have no issue with this approach.

I have also done business with Pro Cycle and dealt with Jeff on a personal level. His customer service is no less impressive. We're very fortunate that we can gather feedback directly from the business owner. There are a lot of businesses that would prefer to have a level of disconnect. These guys choose not to. Even if you have no intention of dealing with them or do not share their views, you have to respect the fact that they choose this medium to have a level of exposure (both for their businesses and their person). To be rude to them or insist they don't know of which they speak is out-of-line.

OK, I've said enough. Perhaps we can continue discussing DR650s and how much fun they are.
__________________
There are some simple thruths......and dogs know what they are - Joseph Duemer

Andy holds the lead. And he will, all the way to the Highway. Today is his day.
Bronco638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #76758
8gv
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North central CT
Oddometer: 2,347
At the risk of earning "ignore" status...

I got my carb back together last night and took it for a ride today. It behaves poorly from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. Just off idle is ok. At full throttle, once it catches up, it's a friggin' rocket.

I have experience with two strokes doing this. On a 2T I'd call it a bog or loading up. On those I think the spark plug would have too much fuel/oil mix on it and misfire until it could clean up. I present this as the closest approximation of my bikes current behavior.

What I think I know:

Bike has 3160 miles.

Carb is stock and is clean (I did that). There is one hole in the slide next to the needle hole.

Idle mixture screw is at 1 turn out, it was previously at 1/2 turn out and is a little better just off idle now.

Valves are in spec, I don't know if they were done at the 600 mile interval but when I checked them this week the intakes were mid-spec and the exhaust were at the tight side of the spec. Now they're mid-spec.

Exhaust is stock.

Air box is unmolested.

Plugs are new and gapped correctly.

Enrichment system works as it should. It helps somewhat when i pull the enrichment lever.

Oil level is a little high with the oil hitting the high mark half way between vertical and leaning on the stand.

This feels more like an intermittent ignition issue than carburation. I am considering pulling the spark plug cap off one of the plugs (and then another) to see what happens.

I have the plug caps on their nearest plug. I assume they fire simultaneously.


Here's my typed interpretation of what it feels like:

VrrrrrvavavarrrrrvavavaROOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!
(during the vavava part I might get a light backfire as well)

If I hold the throttle steady at maybe 40% it will do this so it doesn't seem to be a momentary gasping from a quick twist.

I understand that CV carbs have their flat spot idiosyncrasies but I doubt anyone would consider this to be normal.

So DR detectives, what say ye?
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #76759
spjinseattle
Strom and DR Rider
 
spjinseattle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 18
Need Help from the DR Gods

I've got a 2007 DR650, stock pipe, stock carb, no airbox mods. Last year I had a hot-to-ground short that fried my wiring harness (if you have to know, it was because some idiot driving on the wrong side of the road clipped my pannier [thank God not my leg!] which had a 12v plug for charging electronics in it... another idiot [me] tucked the cut wire under my seat... touch frame... induce short. Important lesson learned].

Anyway, entirely new wiring harness and she was back in business. I did a 500 mile trip with the new harness last October, filled and stabilized the fuel, and parked it for the Winter. In March I pulled the bike out, changed the oil, cleaned the filter, changed plugs, started her up and went for a ride. About 15 minutes down the road, I started getting jumpy throttle, bogging at acceleration, then after trying to flog it, she just cut out, back-fired, and died. Since then I drained the old gas, did an off bike cleaning of the carb, fixed a ceased choke with the Procycle unit, added a mixture screw, had the valves checked/adjusted by a dealer who also confirmed the carb is all good, and alas... the same darn problem. Bike starts and idles fine, runs okay until officially warmed up, then starts getting jumpy at idle, bogs on throttle, backfires, dies.

Anyone have ideas for things to check?! I'm at my wits' end.
spjinseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:16 PM   #76760
joefromsf
Dark Happens
 
joefromsf's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 1,525
Could be a vapor lock in the gas tank. What kind of tank and gas cap do you have? Note that you can usually tell if its vapor lock by immediately opening the gas cap when it dies. If you hear air being sucked in, then it was probably vapor lock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spjinseattle View Post
I've got a 2007 DR650, stock pipe, stock carb, no airbox mods. Last year I had a hot-to-ground short that fried my wiring harness (if you have to know, it was because some idiot driving on the wrong side of the road clipped my pannier [thank God not my leg!] which had a 12v plug for charging electronics in it... another idiot [me] tucked the cut wire under my seat... touch frame... induce short. Important lesson learned].

Anyway, entirely new wiring harness and she was back in business. I did a 500 mile trip with the new harness last October, filled and stabilized the fuel, and parked it for the Winter. In March I pulled the bike out, changed the oil, cleaned the filter, changed plugs, started her up and went for a ride. About 15 minutes down the road, I started getting jumpy throttle, bogging at acceleration, then after trying to flog it, she just cut out, back-fired, and died. Since then I drained the old gas, did an off bike cleaning of the carb, fixed a ceased choke with the Procycle unit, added a mixture screw, had the valves checked/adjusted by a dealer who also confirmed the carb is all good, and alas... the same darn problem. Bike starts and idles fine, runs okay until officially warmed up, then starts getting jumpy at idle, bogs on throttle, backfires, dies.

Anyone have ideas for things to check?! I'm at my wits' end.
joefromsf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #76761
motolab
Beastly Adventurer
 
motolab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Oddometer: 2,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
It behaves poorly from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.
How does it behave if the throttle is pinned right from low rpm?

Regards,

Derek
motolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:19 PM   #76762
schmittie120
n00b
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Oddometer: 3
are the forks on the 96 DR650 stock. Iwent and looked at it today and i was unsure. Thanks for your guys help, I am new to dual sports so I am not very knowledgeable on them

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/mcy/3807129970.html
schmittie120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:33 PM   #76763
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,997
mine did that when the pilot jet was clogged (old gas not stored properly for 3+ months. thought i was going to use the bike but did not)
did you verify that it is open? did you pull it out and inspect it?
I was in mexico so i pulled it out and poked it with a very thin needle as it was clogged shut. i then hit it with carb cleaner and the bike ran great after. i'm sure the purist are gagging that i cleaned up the jet as they say it can't be done and new jets are needed...but it worked for me.

i'm a fan of pine sol soak every so often with my DR carb. even a clean looking carb releases un-seen dirt and the bike runs great after.
pinesol is safe on rubber and plastic parts (slide guide etc.).
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560117

at this kind of low mileage nothing the chance of something worn out is slim.
more than likely something is blocked. think simple.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
I got my carb back together last night and took it for a ride today. It behaves poorly from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. Just off idle is ok. At full throttle, once it catches up, it's a friggin' rocket.

I have experience with two strokes doing this. On a 2T I'd call it a bog or loading up. On those I think the spark plug would have too much fuel/oil mix on it and misfire until it could clean up. I present this as the closest approximation of my bikes current behavior.

What I think I know:

Bike has 3160 miles.

Carb is stock and is clean (I did that). There is one hole in the slide next to the needle hole.

Idle mixture screw is at 1 turn out, it was previously at 1/2 turn out and is a little better just off idle now.

Valves are in spec, I don't know if they were done at the 600 mile interval but when I checked them this week the intakes were mid-spec and the exhaust were at the tight side of the spec. Now they're mid-spec.

Exhaust is stock.

Air box is unmolested.

Plugs are new and gapped correctly.

Enrichment system works as it should. It helps somewhat when i pull the enrichment lever.

Oil level is a little high with the oil hitting the high mark half way between vertical and leaning on the stand.

This feels more like an intermittent ignition issue than carburation. I am considering pulling the spark plug cap off one of the plugs (and then another) to see what happens.

I have the plug caps on their nearest plug. I assume they fire simultaneously.


Here's my typed interpretation of what it feels like:

VrrrrrvavavarrrrrvavavaROOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!
(during the vavava part I might get a light backfire as well)

If I hold the throttle steady at maybe 40% it will do this so it doesn't seem to be a momentary gasping from a quick twist.

I understand that CV carbs have their flat spot idiosyncrasies but I doubt anyone would consider this to be normal.

So DR detectives, what say ye?
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:41 PM   #76764
shu
...
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post

As for Derek's customer service......

I have also done business with Pro Cycle and dealt with Jeff on a personal level. His customer service is no less impressive......

.... Even if you have no intention of dealing with them or do not share their views, you have to respect the fact that they choose this medium to have a level of exposure (both for their businesses and their person). To be rude to them or insist they don't know of which they speak is out-of-line.



Exactly right, I think.

I wasn't raised turning wrenches and I get a lot of good info here.

I'd hate to see that kind of input discouraged here. Listen and learn, disagree if you want, but don't drive off people who have something to say.

.....................shu
shu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:13 PM   #76765
8gv
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North central CT
Oddometer: 2,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
How does it behave if the throttle is pinned right from low rpm?

Regards,

Derek
It kind of works it's way up the rpm scale in a wavering fashion until it catches and rockets away.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:18 PM   #76766
8gv
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North central CT
Oddometer: 2,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
mine did that when the pilot jet was clogged (old gas not stored properly for 3+ months. thought i was going to use the bike but did not)
did you verify that it is open? did you pull it out and inspect it?
I was in mexico so i pulled it out and poked it with a very thin needle as it was clogged shut. i then hit it with carb cleaner and the bike ran great after. i'm sure the purist are gagging that i cleaned up the jet as they say it can't be done and new jets are needed...but it worked for me.

i'm a fan of pine sol soak every so often with my DR carb. even a clean looking carb releases un-seen dirt and the bike runs great after.
pinesol is safe on rubber and plastic parts (slide guide etc.).
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560117

at this kind of low mileage nothing the chance of something worn out is slim.
more than likely something is blocked. think simple.
Thinking small is a good idea. I had the pilot jet out and blasted it with carb cleaner. I could see through it. The common thing in all three that I've ridden is a period of disuse. Maybe I need to treat the carb to a few overnights at the Pinesol motel.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:28 PM   #76767
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 5,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco638 View Post
i was hoping you'd post that.
__________________
2004 DR650: 62,400 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:33 PM   #76768
motolab
Beastly Adventurer
 
motolab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Oddometer: 2,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
It kind of works it's way up the rpm scale in a wavering fashion until it catches and rockets away.
Are you sure the main jet is clean? What size is it? What air filter is installed? I know you said that the airbox is unmolested, but is the snorkel in place? What is the float height?

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 05-17-2013 at 05:55 PM
motolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #76769
Mambo Dave
Backyard Adventurer
 
Mambo Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: 11 ft. AMSL
Oddometer: 5,188
Sea Foam before and after winter storage should be a rule.

Not two weeks after pulling it out of storage, but instead for the first tank - and at a high strength.
__________________
"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
RyanR
Mambo Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #76770
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post

So DR detectives, what say ye?
Blocked Pilot Jet? Replace it.
Check for crap in your intake track.
Make certain there is no WATER/Rust residing in bottom of fuel tank.
Have you checked the little plastic white fuel filter? It lives in the metal fuel tube going into Carb.

Bike will run pretty well with one plug ... but much better with two. I believe they fire just a hair apart from each other ...not sure.

Good luck getting it sorted.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014