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Old 07-03-2013, 08:07 AM   #78226
AKASY
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Manual--OEM

[QUOTE=Rusty Rocket;21780267]Have you priced it? If I recall, it's outrageous.

I just picked up a used factory original on EBay for $49 delivered--couple of minor smudges but otherwise perfect. They are out there.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:21 AM   #78227
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$49 delivered is still more than the Clymer (or was for me).
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #78228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitos23 View Post
Thanks everybody for all the insights!

So,
from what I gather, the Clymer manual:
+is more convinient to work with on the bike, than the PDF
+has about the same data as in the Suzuki manual.

Got the picture. Thanks again,
Amit
Ideally, you want a copy on your hard drive that you can study in the comfort and privacy of your own home, and a hard copy you can have on your lap as you stare at your engine trying to remember the right way to reinstall that part. If you do any amount of wrenching, it will happen.
And don't overlook Youtube as a source of information. Watch enough of them and you learn to separate the good information from the BSers.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:44 AM   #78229
AKASY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Sigh... Here we go again
Umm what oil is best--sorry didn't mean to rehash.
Real world I have never had a stock CV carb produce over rich conditions at high altitude.
On the other hand--or wrist--I have had numerous mechanical slide carbs dump way too much fuel unless re-jetted prior to going higher.
FI is the real answer but I'm not sold on FI for dirt bikes at all. Most likely at some point I won't have a choice but until then I find the CV to be the least labor intensive for altitude changes.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:26 AM   #78230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKASY View Post
I have never had a stock CV carb produce over rich conditions at high altitude.
On the other hand--or wrist--I have had numerous mechanical slide carbs dump way too much fuel unless re-jetted prior to going higher.
That's strictly in the jetting setup. The needle and slide don't know if they are being lifted by vacuum or by mechanical means.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:26 AM   #78231
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberKul View Post
So well said I just had to quote it. Most bikes these days far exceed the riders capabilities. The DR is old school enough that a rider can make a few suspension mods and reach an equilibrium with the bike and riders abilities. A good rider going balls-out on the DR just means he brought the wrong bike.
Ive had several near death or dismemberment incidents riding my DR too hard,I dont do that anymore.
The bike can be pushed to a certain level but beyond that can be disastrous.
More power wouldnt make it all better.

My 530 on the other hand begs to be pushed harder and still isnt near it's limit,things get all blurry quick on it.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:29 AM   #78232
Foot dragger
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
That's strictly in the jetting setup. The needle and slide don't know if they are being lifted by vacuum or by mechanical means.
Atmospheric pressure doesnt change with altitude?
A CV carb is mainly built to compensate for altitude and run cleanly doing so.
Mine must be the only one made that does so with all the complaints about them on here.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:44 AM   #78233
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Atmospheric pressure doesnt change with altitude?
A CV carb is mainly built to compensate for altitude and run cleanly doing so.
Atmospheric pressure changes the same amount whether you have a CV carb or a direct slide carb.
A stock CV carb is designed to pass emissions requirements.

Most stock DRs (evidently not yours?) are too lean to run cleanly near sea level. That jetting that is too lean at sea level works better at higher elevations that cause it to run richer. If it was truly altitude compensating it would work just a poorly in Denver as it does in San Diego.
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procycle screwed with this post 07-03-2013 at 10:08 AM
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:53 AM   #78234
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
As far as slide guides,are they not replaceable on the OEM DR carb?
They are, but the part is not available from Suzuki. You would use KTM 584.31.037.000 (see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528038).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:14 AM   #78235
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Sigh... Here we go again I did say "almost (but not quite) too lean". Obviously if you are causing detonation by lean jetting then it does not meet that criteria.
You may recall that you said your stock bike with stock jetting had a detonation issue. You may now argue that that was caused by the stock jetting being too lean. However we are talking about a TM carb, which increases the danger of detonation via the improvement in cylinder filling it provides, i.e. the engine may have a detonation problem even if the mixture is perfect (3-5% CO).
Quote:
Many dyno tuners who are in the business of tuning race bikes will automatically tune for maximum power. If you set up for maximum power at sea level you will be too rich at altitude. If you jet for good drivability near the lean edge you will have a bike capable of going practically anywhere without jetting issues.
That's a great idea in theory, but in practice, NOX can often rise sharply enough to indicate danger if the mixture is leaned away from best power.
Quote:
Sure, if you are a robot that only rides at a certain throttle position instead of maintaining speed with your throttle hand. When the slide doesn't rise as far the bike goes slower so you manually open the throttle more which will cause the slide to rise more.

If you want to ride along with a lower slide position you can do that with a TM40 - just roll off the throttle a little bit and go slower.

Given equal air and fuel flow a CV or direct slide carburetor will have to have an equal rise of the slide to maintain the same road speed. The air and fuel don't know whether the slide and needle are being lifted by vacuum or a cable.

The CV-altitude advantage is a nice theory but it doesn't hold up to real world examination. The only way it would be true is if there were some altitude compensation mechanism built into the carb that would alter the mixture.
You have neglected one key factor, and that is that in a CV carb it is the throttle blade rather than the slide that ultimately limits the air flow for a given throttle opening.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:17 AM   #78236
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKASY View Post
U
Real world I have never had a stock CV carb produce over rich conditions at high altitude.
.
I sure have... My stock tune sucked at sea level...got good between 5K and 9K...little worse above 9K. At 13K it was a gutless pig blowing black smoke!
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #78237
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Originally Posted by rockydrxrvr View Post
My standard shoria battery is 3.5 inches tall, the upgrade in 4.13 inches tall, I cut a block of wood the dimensions of the 'upgrade' before it is shipped, to see if it would fit, only a 1/16th inch clearance, so with connectors tightened down, the bottom of the seat will 'chafe' on the connections.----- looks like a probable no=go. Any DR owners figure a way around this besides a custom remote battery box like the XRL650'S have?
I have a few elec. accessories to add on.
Space the seatpan brackets down with washers and use Goop to glue some rubber washers to the seatpan bumpers.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:32 AM   #78238
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKASY View Post
FWIW, there are several discussions on jetting and the DR. Over the years I've left my DR's stock, no airbox mods, no jetting changes, no needle clip changes. I wanted to test the new DR so up we went. Most all of my riding is above 6500 feet and up to 10-12,000 on a regular basis.
I've found the stock jetting and carb to be excellent under all of these circumstances. So a test of the new one was in order.
The first picture is on the pull up Mt Taylor--no issues at all and pulled just fine--restarts no issue.
Second picture is looking up just below the top--still running just fine.
At the top--no issues on restart idle or anything else.
In my experience the stock jetting and airbox are well suited to these elevation changes. Just prior to the pull we were running desert roads below 5000 feet and the bike ran fine.
Overall mileage on this trip was right at 60mpg.
I've found no reason to make any changes on earlier DR and it will be the same for this one.
Ride interstate at altitude, 2up, and you may want for some more power. This can be achieved inexpensively by opening up the flow of air and appropriately adding fuel.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:43 AM   #78239
AKASY
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Jets

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
That's strictly in the jetting setup.
No argument there I think that is what I said.
It really comes down to--do you want to fuss with big $$ for a carb and screw with needles and jetting or live with a CV. My choice is to live with the CV--it just flat works best across a wide range of altitudes. Admittedly, living at 6500 I don't have to live with lean stumble daily. The CV shines on the mpg front which is a big plus.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #78240
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Tre-doing the shock completely on mine is easily the biggest improvement to the bike.
+ 1000 I tried to keep up with 2 friends who were on TE 610's riding sand whoops. you could hit 1 whoop hard, but don't even think about the second. A quick trip to the Cogent man made it so I could hang with those guys.
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