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Old 07-04-2013, 09:48 AM   #78301
MrBob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
Luck and blessings have nothing to do with it. Everyone chooses where they live based on their own priorities, whatever they are.
In my case this is true. I chose to give up summers in Minnesota and winters in northern Florida, and a much higher income level, to fry my ass in the beauty of the west. But, I only have my sorry self to consider. An unwell parent, or children in school, for example, can make a move about impossible.
I'm happy for flatlanders who can visit the west and return home with great memories and I cut them extra slack when they drive 20mph below the speed limit on twisty canyon roads (as long as they don't freak when I pass them on the double yellow).
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MrBob screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 03:10 PM
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #78302
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Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
In my cast this is true. I chose to give up summers in Minnesota
I grew up in Minnesota and both weeks of summer up there are wonderful!
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:37 AM   #78303
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Originally Posted by wavygravy87 View Post
I know this is old news, but I just popped the countershaft sprocket off my friend's new 2013 DR and confirmed it had a seal retainer from the factory. This raised this question for me: "What the hell did they put that on there for?!!"

You mean to tell me that Suzuki has sold a bike since '96 with a 3rd gear that MAY explode, and screws on the NSU that MAY fall out. Both instances probably trashing the engine. And they are fine with that, obviously. BUT! They decided to make the investment to install a seal retainer to prevent a seal that MAY (BUT I'VE NEVER HEARD OF) pop out and spray oil everywhere. The 3rd gear and NSU screws are reported cases, but the seal popping out is a new one to me. They really have their priorities together huh? Take that few Yen they spend on that damn retainer and put a lockwasher and some threadlock on those NSU screws why don't you?

Let me be clear that I have been a victim of countershaft seal poppage while I was riding. It was on a 2001 Super Sherpa, I knew they were prone to it, I didn't die or blow the engine, I pushed it home and popped in a new seal I had in the toolbox. Been fine for 15k miles now. The stock seal was undersized and didnt fit tight enough.

I still never consider it an issue, but I'm wrong everyday You guys with new bikes enjoy your new seal retainers. And remember to fix your NSU screws, and hope your 3rd gear wasn't made at 4:45 on a Friday

Have a safe 4th of July!
Procycle and others have sold cs seal retainers for years. Apparently it's a common, usually fatal and inexpensively corrected problem. FWIW, the DR350 had one from the beginning in 1990.

The NSU screws issue could be easily corrected during assembly. Some have reported that newer models appear to be tighter than earlier ones. So, maybe they "fixed" it. My '99 model NSU screws were snug but certainly not 5 ft-lbs tight. Safely wiring those seems a little paranoid to me. Just some thread locker is adequate IMHO.

It seems there have been relatively few third gear failures and that most of those were in Australia for some reason (sand maybe, or the fact that those blokes RIDE). That said, there is a reason why 3rd gear in these bikes is made from a different material (sintered metal, I understand). I don't know what that reason is but I do know Suzuki doesn't do anything just for the hell of it. I'm guessing they encountered failures during testing and the 3rd gear they ended up with is supposed to be tougher (not necessarily stronger, tougher - there is a difference) than a solid metal gear. Or, perhaps, it is a intended failure point protecting the rest of the transmission/engine from destruction under extreme conditions.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #78304
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
My $0.02, one thing to remember is that an engine will never have as much power at altitude as it does down lower, even with perfect jetting. There simply aren't as many chunks of oxygen up here.
That point can't be repeated too often.

Many uninformed riders of F.I. bikes seem to think Fuel Injected bikes are immune to losing power at altitude. They are not. While their fuel mixture is maintained as altitude increases, they do lose power the same as ALL internal combustion engines do.

My Non Stock jetting did not work above 13K ft. but the most noticeable was loss of overall power ... which on the DR begins at about 7 or 8000 ft and gets worse the higher you go.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:01 AM   #78305
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Wicked NSU screws revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
Just getting caught up on some of the common maladies that afflict the DR. NSU screws caught my eye and a search turned up zillions of threads that didn't point me to where the damn things are located. Is a 2009 among the bikes that should have these screws locked?

Only the 1996 thru 2014 bikes need to have the NSU screws checked!

The neutral safety switch is under the right side case cover and pretty much under the clutch. It is reportedly a pretty simple job to remove the clutch and either locktite or wire the screws. I was stubborn enough to insist that I could wire mine with the clutch in place, and did so but not necessarily as quickly as those who have done it 'right'. Whether or not you need a new cover gasket is inversely proportional to how long it will take to get one. I'd recommend having it on hand and then you may not need to replace it.

I know that there are more than a couple of pictures in this thread showing the location and procedure but the search function is a bit lacking (for me anyway), try using Google and include 'advrider' in the topic. Someone may come up with a link shortly.


Bruce
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #78306
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootac View Post
I'm going to be hanging out here for awhile....



Brought this home last night,,, an '02.
Where's the shaft drive on this damn thing???

Been awhile since I lubed and tightened a CHAIN!!!
Welcome Scoot!
The chain will grow on you! Trust me! Resist the urge to over tighten you chain. Better a bit loose than too tight. Make sure you sprockets are in good shape ... especially the front, which tends to be worn out at around 7K to 8000 miles. A fresh front sprocket will really extend the life of your chain and smooth things out. Cheap insurance.
Getting the drive line set up right on your DR will make for much less NOISE, less wear and a smoother ride.
Have fun!
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:07 AM   #78307
Fire Escape
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Question Countershaft Seal Retainer

Are the Suzuki factory seal retainers a 'bolt on' for older bikes? Just buy it and slide it in place without any machine work?
If so it would seem to be a quick and easy upgrade to consider. I have yet to lose a seal (on any bike) but riding a 'well oiled' rear tire has little appeal to me.


Bruce
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:26 AM   #78308
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavygravy87 View Post
You mean to tell me that Suzuki has sold a bike since '96 with a 3rd gear that MAY explode, and screws on the NSU that MAY fall out. Both instances probably trashing the engine. And they are fine with that, obviously. BUT! They decided to make the investment to install a seal retainer to prevent a seal that MAY (BUT I'VE NEVER HEARD OF) pop out and spray oil everywhere. The 3rd gear and NSU screws are reported cases, but the seal popping out is a new one to me. They really have their priorities together huh? Take that few Yen they spend on that damn retainer and put a lockwasher and some threadlock on those NSU screws why don't you?
Good points and it does raise questions. In Suzuki's defense, they have tightened up the NSU screws on newer bikes and now use an Allen Head bolt. The reason those bolts are not super tight is that the NSU plate is plastic. Too tight, it will shatter. But still ... Suzuki should Loc Tite those bolts in place at the factory.

The 3rd gear thing is a bit of a mystery. Most failures happen to Aussies. (maybe 85% of them?)
Hard off road riding may be the clue? Not sure. There is a WHOLE THREAD dedicated to this topic. Check it out.

My feeling on the seal retainer is that, for Suzuki, it's a clear and preventable liability issue. Oil on rear tire, instant crash. Big court settlement and a cheap and easy fix from the Factory. Not many have popped out ... but there are documented cases here on this thread and elsewhere. It's FAR from common, but does happen. If you look at all 78,000 posts on this thread. What? Maybe 5 to 10 cases at most?

In most cases you can simply PUSH the seal back in place ... or glue it in. (yes, it's been done). But now there are THREE options for retainers: 1. Berg Donk's prototype (the real pioneer on this mod), 2. Pro Cycle's elegant version, 3. Suzuki version, also elegant.

The original seal is some sort of Press fit. Obviously tolerances are not all that perfect or consistent and this is why some pop out. But the numbers, over all, are tiny relative to the roughly 100,000 DR650 produced since 1996.

I used Blue Loc Tite on my '06 NSU bolts, which were not loose but not tight either. I tightened them as much as I dare, added Blue Loc Tite. So far so good. No one has figured out the 3rd gear issue. Lots of questions there, fewer absolute answers.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #78309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Escape View Post
Are the Suzuki factory seal retainers a 'bolt on' for older bikes? Just buy it and slide it in place without any machine work?
If so it would seem to be a quick and easy upgrade to consider. I have yet to lose a seal (on any bike) but riding a 'well oiled' rear tire has little appeal to me.


Bruce
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:29 PM   #78310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
That point can't be repeated too often.

Many uninformed riders of F.I. bikes seem to think Fuel Injected bikes are immune to losing power at altitude. They are not. While their fuel mixture is maintained as altitude increases, they do lose power the same as ALL internal combustion engines do.

My Non Stock jetting did not work above 13K ft. but the most noticeable was loss of overall power ... which on the DR begins at about 7 or 8000 ft and gets worse the higher you go.
Forced induction (supercharged/turbocharged) motors, particularly those with fuel injection don't really lose much since the supercharger usually has excess cylinder filling capacity. Turbocharging plus water injection where mainstays for high altitude flight of WWII piston engine aircraft. Modern OTR trucks are usually super/turbocharged and they can really haul the mail over the high passes. That's probably not gonna help your DR650 though.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #78311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy from MO View Post
Thanks so much for the link! $0.18 for 2 stainless washers to shim the stock needle up a bit and surge is totally cured!!! About 30 minutes and $0.18 and PROBLEM SOLVED!

I've never been one to make a bike overly rich.....I like the 60 mpg or so with this new 2012 and my previous 1996. I'll give you an update on what 2 small washers to shim the needle up will cost me in fuel mileage. I expect about 2-3 mpg but hopefully less.

PS- I left stock idle setting alone and stock main jet alone. 1 washer helped but didn't totally eliminate the surge....2 did the trick! I'll measure the thickness of the washers with micrometer tomorrow. Thanks again guys and gals!

Stainless washers were .028" thick each so I ended up shimming the needle .056" total. I think .040-.050 would do the trick too.

CV carbs DO compensate for altitude changes a little better (but not perfectly by any means). All around I like CV carbs.....just my nickels worth.

andy from MO screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 10:44 PM
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:48 PM   #78312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
No one has figured out the 3rd gear issue. Lots of questions there, fewer absolute answers.
I believe ProCycle has a beefy third gear set for sale. It's pricey when used as a deterrent. The testimony I've read tells me the third gear issue grenades the engine. I wonder if I'll someday regret not putting in the set from ProCycle.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #78313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
I grew up in Minnesota and both weeks of summer up there are wonderful!
If only they were consecutive.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:11 PM   #78314
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Thanks for the welcome guys!
Coupla questions to start... just how common is this NSU thing I keep reading about? Bike has like 2600 miles on it. Don't know if it's been done on this bike or not. How worked up do I need to get? Neutral light works OK. The paper base gasket was changed out for the metal one according to the PO.
'Nother thing,,, no tools in the tool kit,,, so what size wrenches should I put in there? I'm thinking wrenches, screwdriver, fuses, zip ties and little roll of wire will stretch my wrenching abilities!
AND,,, will one of those PVC tool tubes fit in there or someplace else? I see Procycle has a steel one for sale,,, but $90 or so!
Thanks for the help!
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #78315
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Originally Posted by Fire Escape View Post



I know that there are more than a couple of pictures in this thread showing the location and procedure but the search function is a bit lacking (for me anyway), try using Google and include 'advrider' in the topic. Someone may come up with a link shortly.
Bruce
The ADV search function is generally useless and has been for all the years I've been hanging around here. Googling a topic produces better results and an inmate furnishing a link () is best.
My Clymer's manual should arrive in the next few days so I can plan my attack.
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