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Old 08-28-2013, 02:45 PM   #80731
Rusty Rocket
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I put the DJ kit in and cut my airbox today ala Jesse.. Pulled the backfire screen out too.

DJ needle 4th pos, drilled slide, 155 DJ main, stock pilot. 1.5 turns on mixture screw. Stock exhaust and aircleaner.

Tiny bit more sound, but it snaps when called upon now.
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:59 PM   #80732
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberhog9 View Post
Yeah I could have been a little more specific.Mainly I was asking what you all have for tires.I'd say I'm probably going to be mostly pavement with gravel and B roads too.Not much single track where I live.Just mostly for tooling around wherever.Won't be for commuting.

Thanks
Pavement and gravel only, just tooling around, I'd run a front Shinko 244 and a rear 244 or a rear Kenda K270. If you want to also be able to handle midwest mud, I'd put a more aggressive tire at least on the front...MT21, IRC TR8, or even an aggressive non-DOT knob like I run...AMS Sand Snake MX. The MT21 and IRC TR8 are going to be noticeably better on pavement than the Sand Snake, but they don't seem to give up a whole lot in the soft stuff. I'm just a cheapskate, and wanted to see how good or bad a $22 front sand-knobby would be for dualsporting.

The rear 244 or rear K270 will get you through a lot of stuff if you can just stay on the gas, but an aggressive front will make the bike easier to control in the soft stuff. The combo I currently run is a K270 rear and either the front Sand Snake knob for mostly sand/mud or the front 244 for mostly pavement. I just pulled off a Sand Snake front with about 5K miles of mixed use on it...for $22. The front 244 cost me around $28-$32, and I have over 3K miles on it, with plenty of tread left. I just reversed it's direction when I re-installed it last weekend, so that I can get even wear from it.

The front K270, D606, K760 and several others are not as well-liked as their rear counterparts. The front K270's sidelugs notoriously squirm a lot more than the front 244's when the bike is leaned over in paved turns, even though the overall treads are very similar. I don't notice the K270 squirm on the rear though.

If you also want an aggressive rear, the D606 rear is very popular, lasts a while for a pavement-grippy DOT knob, and is available in a 17" size. The T63 and K760 are also available in 17" sizes that fit the DR.

Chaparral, Motorcycle Superstore, Bike Bandit, and several other online vendors usually have pretty good prices.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:16 PM   #80733
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Can you explain what we are seeing here.
The important thing to look at is the CO trace, which is at the bottom. Generally speaking, it should be as flat as possible. Instead, we have something that varies between ~2.8% and ~9.3% CO. Best WOT CO is usually around 4 to 4.5%. 2.8% CO is lean enough to raise concerns about detonation (NOX will be higher in this area, indicating an elevated combustion process temperature), and 9.3% is getting a bit close to rich misfire (which can set in as early as ~10%). 2.8% CO will make pretty good power and mileage. At 9.3% there will be a power and mileage penalty.
Quote:
What would a graph with a stock (non-USA) needle look like for a similarly set up DR650?
The CO trace will be flatter.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:17 PM   #80734
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
A similarly setup bike with a stock non-USA needle will be unridable. The OEM needle profile is not compatible with a fully modified airbox. The OEM needle will work fine with the snorkel removed but once you open up the airbox the OEM needle will not have any height setting that will make for a good running motorcycle.
I have seen no data to support these claims.

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Derek
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:37 PM   #80735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I have seen no data to support these claims.
You also haven't seen (or provided) any data that contradicts this claim.
In any case, hands on experience trumps data.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:15 PM   #80736
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
You also haven't seen (or provided) any data that contradicts this claim.
In this case hands on experience trumps data.
I have the hands on experience and data that have proven to me that needle shapes such as the DJ's produce CO traces such as the one in the chart I posted.

I used to believe that needle shapes such as the DynoJet needle has would solve opened-up-air-box-with-main-jet-for-correct-higher-rpm-operation-induced low to mid-low rpm richness problems as well. In fact, my mind kept insisting that every instance where a needle shape like that didn't work had to be an anomaly, until it finally dawned on me that I had not ever seen one work, and that that leads to the inevitable conclusion that they don't work in general. Once I got to this point, I remembered that Marc Salvisberg had told me several times in a very gentle manner what the trends are in this type of a scenario. He even made some custom needles for me that he knew were the wrong shape. I guess he realized that telling me was not going to help, and that I was going to have to beat my head against the wall until I got it. Once I did, I told him he was right and apologized for having been so dense.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:34 PM   #80737
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I have the hands on exp... (snip) ... having been so dense.
As usual this is all trying to deflect away from the point. The DJ needle is not in any way involved in my statement.

I'll say it again for clarity:

The OEM needle will not work with an open airbox


And I should have been more specific - hands on experience tuning the DR650.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:42 PM   #80738
newride
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Front sprocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by newride View Post
hello all. Was told that the stock sprocket plate can be used with the stock size front sprocket from procycle. Waiting on some new bolts. So it just pops in like this? No washer?

http://s704.photobucket.com/user/new...g.html?filters[user]=92571799&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

peace,
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:51 PM   #80739
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
As usual this is all trying to deflect away from the point.
Actually, it's precisely to the point.
Quote:
The DJ needle is not in any way involved in my statement.
I think it is, because we're talking about needle shape trends, that is those that will give as flat of a CO trace as possible once the correct main jet is installed for correct high rpm WOT operation, and those that don't.

Quote:
I'll say it again for clarity:

The OEM needle will not work with an open airbox
You can repeat/insist all you want. The trends did not change for me just because I didn't like them. They won't change for you either.
Quote:
And I should have been more specific - hands on experience tuning the DR650.
I don't need it. The absolute numbers will be different from one CV carb equipped engine to the next, but trends will not. The DR650 is not some strange anomaly where everything that is known about needle shape needs to be tossed out the window.

Regards,

Derek

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:10 PM   #80740
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I think it is, because we're talking about needle shape trends
Yes, you are trying to deflect from the point again. I am only talking about what has been proven not to work. Nothing else.

Talking about trends, etc. is fine but without applying it to an actual motorcycle it just boils down to tuning with nothing but imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
You can repeat/insist all you want.
Well I guess you will keep repeating yourself too. At least until you actually try to make a good running DR650 with an open airbox and OEM needle.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:24 PM   #80741
Escaped
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It would certainly be interesting to see a Dyno chart with CO trace on my bike but thats not going to happen, but the real life facts are as follows:

Bought the DR650 new in 2006. The bike had a noticeable surge and stumble. I was getting around 50 MPG.

At around 3,000 miles I installed the DJ jet kit, drilled slide, installed supplied needle, installed larger main jet and extended mixture screw. I don't remember the size of the main jet. The improvement was very significant.

Before the modification, I took the bike on the freeway (early weekend morning - no traffic) and while traveling a steady 50 mph I went WOT and noted the point were the speedo indicated 100 mph.

After the modification, the next morning (same weather conditions) while traveling 50 mph at the same spot I went WOT and hit 110 indicated at same point I had hit 100 before the mods. Before the mods it had topped out after the mods it seems to be still accelerating.

Before the mods, the front wheel stayed on the ground, the first week after the mods I had several unintentional "wheelies". I discovered the DR650 could pull up the front wheel with throttle only in 1st and second gear.

My MPG went down by 3 to 4 mpg.

My bike now has over 44,000 miles and is still running good.

I expect at some point I will need to rebuild the carb but the accelerated wear will have been worth it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:00 PM   #80742
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newride View Post

Yup. The 15T sprocket just goes on with the stock plate. So does the 16T. The 14T or 17T use different plates. Consult Jeff at Procycle about which way to face the sprocket and why though. I don't remember what direction the 520 or 525 DR650 sprockets go, flat-side out or in.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #80743
cyberdos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George 99 View Post
Both Google Maps and my GPS (OSMAND+) show a trail going thru between Lake Riggs Lake and Taylor Canyon Road headed west and north. No knowledge of the actual terrain. I'll be watching.

I gotta hook up with youse guys sometime this fall. My DRZ is in the throws of being ADVed, hope to meet some dirt riders,,,, spent too many miles on pavement the last few years.
I've got a dirt friendly DRZ too. Much better off road than the DR.

As for those trails, I believe that they are all hiking trails. But I'm not one to take someone else's word for it so I'd like to go and see for myself.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:23 PM   #80744
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I am only talking about what has been proven not to work. Nothing else.
I have provided evidence in the form of a dyno chart with a CO trace that the DJ needle provides poor results. You have neither provided evidence that the DJ needle works well, nor that the non-USA adjustable OEM needle works poorly.
Quote:
Talking about trends, etc. is fine but without applying it to an actual motorcycle it just boils down to tuning with nothing but imagination.
Where do you think knowledge of the trends comes from if not from tuning, seeing what the results are and then keeping track of them?
Quote:
Well I guess you will keep repeating yourself too. At least until you actually try to make a good running DR650 with an open airbox and OEM needle.
And well after that.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:32 PM   #80745
TeeVee
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hey y'all! its' been 18 months since my accident and finally got the DR back in the dirt in nicaragua where she lives. first ride on her since the accident. some may remember what happened but if not no biggie. bottom line is i still limp and probably will for life.

anyway, holy SHIT did i miss this bike! been riding the big pig on the streets since december but that is boring.

took me a bit to get my dirt legs back but managed a three hour semi-rough doble track ride without falling. the route had some pretty interesting hills, both up and down. haven't gotten the helmet cam back up yet so no pics or vids. sorry. but here is our gps track overlayed.



now, even before my wreck i never made it to the level of advanced dirt/trail rider by any stretch of the imagination. and there were always a few questions about what to do when. so here goes...

1. on super steep declines when 1st gear engine braking doesn't quite keep you slow enough, what is the best braking technique?

2. downhill, rough terrain. stand on pegs? weight forward or back?

tia
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