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Old 05-09-2008, 08:52 AM   #1
SteveAS OP
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Which is the right pilot jet?

I want to replace the pilot jets on my bike because my bike is running rich at and just off idle. The dealer's mechanic tells me he drilled my stock pilots before I took delivery. On the left, you can see one of the pilot jets I removed from the carbs. On the right, you can see the replacement a (different) KTM dealer sent me; it is supposed to be a stock pilot jet.

As expected, they're both marked 42 and they both fit in the holder, but, clearly, one of them is not right. Which is the stock pilot jet?

Thanks, fellas!
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:28 AM   #2
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The left one. Look here, almost all the way to the bottom of the page there are pics:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/carbs/Jetting/h2w_kit.html

While you're in there, you might as well replace it with a 45.
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:50 AM   #3
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Unless you are sure it is running rich, which may be the case if he drilled them!, do not put 42s back in. For sure do the 45s. 42 is too lean everywhere.

The Adventure uses the jets with the smaller tip, which are not very common. It is easy to find the larger tip ones as all of the dirt bike carbs use them.
I was told Honda dealers are likely to have them. Z Racing KTM has them for sure and in stock. I was very surprised.
I only know because I'm going through this jetting deal too. Finally, but what a pain in the ass.
JIMMY
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:02 AM   #4
SteveAS OP
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Thanks for confirmation.

Regarding 45s, the pilot jet size seems not to be widely agreed upon. I'm running the full Akrapovic exhaust with stock intake. Based on reading several threads here, I'm going to start with 160/165 mains, the needle in the 4th position, stock pilots (I'm thinking having the needle in the 4th position will make off-idle rich enough), then tweek the mixture screws at idle to find the fastest idle. I'm planning on test-riding it, using the Factory Pro guide to diagnose jetting problems and go from there.

Does anyone see any problem with my approach or starting point?

EDIT: Oh, and I de-SASed and de-canistered the bike, too. As a US-model, it did not have EPC.

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Old 05-09-2008, 11:59 AM   #5
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I'd start with the needle in the middle (3rd) position.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:44 PM   #6
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Pilot and fuel screw will effect the off idle the most. Not the needle and main.

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Old 05-09-2008, 01:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lewis
Pilot and fuel screw will effect the off idle the most. Not the needle and main.

JIMMY
Right, but between the needle and the mixture screw, I might well not need the richer pilot jet.

My thinking is that with the full system and no pre-filter, I'll likely want the needles higher than the usual 3rd clip, for the best mid-range performance. But the higher needles will richen off-idle somewhat, so I'm likely to not need richer pilots.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAS
Right, but between the needle and the mixture screw, I might well not need the richer pilot jet.

My thinking is that with the full system and no pre-filter, I'll likely want the needles higher than the usual 3rd clip, for the best mid-range performance. But the higher needles will richen off-idle somewhat, so I'm likely to not need richer pilots.



A lot of them came with 155 & 160 mains.

Five point jump to the 160 & 165 sounds good...

Start with the third clip..

42 pilots will be fine with the mixture screws in the two too two and a half range..

Rear cyl is fatter by a quarter turn..At least the four of them I have worked on liked it that way..

Mine came out or the factory with a quarter turn difference on rear cyl....

Let me know how this works for you..

What elevation do you spend most of your time at????
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMSER
A lot of them came with 155 & 160 mains.

Five point jump to the 160 & 165 sounds good...
Mine came with 155/160, too, so this is a +5 on both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMSER
42 pilots will be fine with the mixture screws in the two too two and a half range..

Rear cyl is fatter by a quarter turn..At least the four of them I have worked on liked it that way..
Thanks for reporting your experience. I was tempted to try a bit richer on the rear, since mine came that way, too (apparently out of spec at 1.75/2 turns out).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMSER
What elevation do you spend most of your time at????
I spend most time between sea level and 4000 feet, but I typically get (briefly) to almost 10,000 feet once or twice per year.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:00 PM   #10
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Hey there,

It seems to me the first understandable thread in a long time, having taken the lessons in the how by cpmodem. Keep it up guys...

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Old 05-09-2008, 04:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMSER
A lot of them came with 155 & 160 mains.

Five point jump to the 160 & 165 sounds good...

Start with the third clip..

42 pilots will be fine with the mixture screws in the two too two and a half range..

Rear cyl is fatter by a quarter turn..At least the four of them I have worked on liked it that way..

Mine came out or the factory with a quarter turn difference on rear cyl....

Let me know how this works for you..

What elevation do you spend most of your time at????
i was going to direct you to this thread when you came over.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lewis
Unless you are sure it is running rich, which may be the case if he drilled them!, do not put 42s back in. For sure do the 45s. 42 is too lean everywhere.

The Adventure uses the jets with the smaller tip, which are not very common. It is easy to find the larger tip ones as all of the dirt bike carbs use them.
I was told Honda dealers are likely to have them. Z Racing KTM has them for sure and in stock. I was very surprised.
I only know because I'm going through this jetting deal too. Finally, but what a pain in the ass.
JIMMY
Hey Jimmy wassup ! crazy dave here, I'm the goofball that was with trailtricks on the ride through the snow at for the int bike build.... that was a blast Thanks !

hey check this out ! I just called Sudco, they have the FCR 41 downdraft kit in stock,($1400) they claim its plug and play all dialed in no fiddlefarting and it makes it hit going into gear !
no more waiting for the vacuum slide to catch up before getting the power up
dude I am stoked,
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbydave
hey check this out ! I just called Sudco, they have the FCR 41 downdraft kit in stock,($1400) they claim its plug and play all dialed in no fiddlefarting and it makes it hit going into gear !
There's a bit more info in this thread, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335039
but nobody has produced a dyno chart yet...

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Old 05-10-2008, 09:30 AM   #14
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good deal, the sudco guy said the 39's are backordered till sept but they have 41's
Id prefer 39's for more low end torque

getting rid of these sucky suction carbs would eliminate all the finicky fiddledikin, increase torque like crazy AND make it rideable in aggressive rough off road situations
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:46 AM   #15
SteveAS OP
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UPDATE: I took KTMSER's advice and used the third needle clip position.

My settings are stock, except for the canisterectomy, SAS-ectomy, 160/165 mains, the needle position, and the mixture screws. I ran out of time Saturday evening and I couldn't see a way to get a tool in to turn the mixture screws with the carbs in place, so I took a guess and set them at 2.5 turns front and 2.75 turns rear; I didn't try to tweek them for fastest idle.

I went for a 200 mile ride Sunday. The bike feels good at all throttle settings and rpm and between sea level and 4000'. I was pleasantly surprised that the engine feels fine cruising a 75 mph in top gear (with stock sprockets). Before it felt "luggy" at anything below about 83mph. I was also pleased to get decent fuel economy: 38 (US) mpg in a mix of 2/3 freeway cruising at 80 and 1/3 fairly hard windy road riding on the first fill; and 35 mpg in a mix of 4/5 windy roads and 1/5 freeway.

My riding partner said my bike smelled gassy when he was following me while we were fairly riding hard near sea level. That made me think it was rich in the mid-range at 1/2-throttle plus. Later, when I was following him and also riding hard at closer to 4000', the bike felt better, which makes me think it was a touch lean at sea-level. Thoughts?

On one hand, I'm getting decent mileage and the bike feels, good, so I'm tempted not to mess with the settings further. On the other hand, I'm tempted to have it dynoed (with an AF meter), to see if I can't do better. Thoughts?
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