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Old 01-20-2012, 02:58 PM   #226
acejones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
To obtain a TVIP, both the ownership document, which is either [state registration] -or- [bike title] must match the rider's identity document, which is either [passport] -or- [passport card]

There is no provision for a "letter of authorization" to be able to use someone else's bike.

Technically, if a title is presented with a lien, a fussy official can ask to see a notorized document from the lender authorizing the bike to be ridden in Mexico. I'll leave it to others to comment if such a letter under these circumstances has ever been requested.
I've seen this done on a ride on which at least one of the bikes was a rental.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:53 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by acejones View Post
I've seen this done on a ride on which at least one of the bikes was a rental.
Rental documents are fairly common
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:35 AM   #228
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Exactly. A rental document would be no different that any other document of authorization.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:14 AM   #229
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Here is what is the start of a ride guide to the area of central Veracruz and the extreme east of Puebla.

If you want maps, pictures, notes, etc... about a ride, PM me the corresponding number and I will email you a PDF file within a day or two (or 3 if I am busy riding). If you are seriously thinking about spending some time in the area and want to get to know it better, I can ride along with you on these routes if I have the time.

I always enjoy meeting up with riders coming through and getting them away from the devil's candy addiction to the Mex #180 coast highway, which for the most part, is as exciting as watching grass grow with one exception being the Tuxtlas and the other the baches, topes, and kamikaze Central Americans hauling 3 used cars, two loads of domestic appliances, and a Quetzal in a pear tree.

Here you go and all feedback is most welcome be it good, bad, or indifferent. Some of these rides are exceptionally good so make an effort when you are in the area to try to experience them.


Important note! If you want more offroad type stuff, contact Arte and Andres, some of their "Greenland" rides link up with a couple of these routes. So don't forget!


MOTORCYCLE TOURING CENTRAL VERACRUZ - EASTERN PUEBLA
A riders guide to roads and sites of interest 2012

List of Rides - All Are Paved Routes UNLESS NOTED as of February, 2012

1. Las Casitas, Veracruz to Teziutlan, Puebla (curve after curve after curve after curve after...)

2. Vega de Alatorre, Ver. to Naolinco, Ver. via Colipa (classic mountain riding and good food)

3. Naolinco, Ver. to Palma Sola, Ver. via Plan de las Hayas (watch for the "disappearing road" trick after Alto Lucero)

4. Perote, Ver. to Maztaloya and Los Humeros, Puebla (geothermal delights)

5. Perote, Ver. to La Cantona, Pue. (archaeological ruins rarely visited but very significant, these ruins need a new publicist!)

6. Quiahuiztlan, Ver. (archaeological ruins) and the town of La Villa Rica de la Veracruz, beach and dunes. (Where the conquest began).

7. Veracruz, Ver. to Perote, Ver. via Coatepec, Xico, Teocelo, and Ixhuacan de los Reyes, Ver. (The road less traveled to Perote).

8. Perote, Ver. to Huatusco, Ver. via Quimixtlan, Pue. (contains off road section of less than 20 kms. and you can make a side trip to where the H1N1 flu virus supposedly began)

9. Teocelo, Ver. to Guadalupe Victoria, Puebla via Saltillo La Fragua, Pue. (4 possible routes and ALL are very good).

10. Perote, Ver. to Teocelo, Ver. via Gonzalez Ortega, Maravillas, Saltillo La Fragua, Acocomotla, La Trinidad, Rafael Garcia, and Patlanalan, Pue.
(Mountain riding)

11. Xalapa, Ver. to Veracruz, Ver. via Coatepec, Jalcomulco, Ohuapan, Totutla, Manuel Gonzalez, Cameron, and Soledad de Doblado, Ver. (Including the newly paved stretch of 20kms of good curves)

12. Veracruz, Ver. to Cordoba, Fortin, Orizaba, Ver. via Paso del Macho, Ver. (Stop at the monument for the French Foreign Legion near the site of the Battle of Camerone).

13. Jalcomulco, Ver. to Cordoba, Fortin, Orizaba, Ver. via Huatusco, Ver.
(Extra points if you find where the ostriches, yes the ostriches, are hidden).

14. Xalapa, Ver. to the summit of the Cofre de Perote (this is a challenging high elevation ride not recommended to do without some prior planning and common sense and knowing your limits).

15. Cordoba, Ver. to Tequila, Ver. via Xoxocotla, Ver. (la "Sierra Fria") via Soledad Atzompa, Ver. (On the map but off the map).

16. Cordoba, Ver. to Zongolica, Ver. (la Sierra Zongolica classic and once you make the descent you'll know why)

17. Zongolica, Ver. to Cordoba, Ver. via 25kms of unpaved mountain road through the Sierra de Tlacuiloteca. (Watch for low flying birds of prey).

18. Cordoba, Ver. to "The Large Millimeter Telescope" at the top of the Sierra Negra, Pue. via Maltrata, Xuchi, Plan del Capulin and Texmalaquilla, Pue. (Contains high elevation maintained dirt road. This is another somewhat challenging high elevation ride that is not recommended without some prior planning and common sense. Free camping is available with no services and "check in/check out" with the local police is sometimes enforced but not a bad idea anyways).

19. Cordoba, Ver. to Ciudad Mendoza, Ver. via Tequila, Tlaquilpa, Xoxocotla, Atzompa, Ver. (end of route is different from #14 as it is via Atzompa and not Soledad Atzompa, Ver. Try to see if you can find "la cocinera", you'll be glad you did).

20. Veracruz, Ver. to Catemaco, Ver. via Roca Partida, Montepio, Sontecomapan, Ver. (contains very short maintained dirt road section through tropical forest near UNAM Biological Research Station, someone might even be available to give you an interesting talk about the biology of the region, some very knowledgeable people working there).

21. Veracruz, Ver. to Catemaco, Ver. via Los Tuxtlas, Ver. conventional lower elevation mountain route that follows Mex #180 "the coast highway".
(The one that everyone always does but they forget to buy cigars in San Andres Tuxtla and some "Chochogo" at the roadside stands).

22. Xalapa, Ver to Huatusco, Ver. via Quimixtlan, Puebla a great ride that includes a back view of Pico de Orizaba and a long gravel stretch that can be done on a GS1200 if the rider has some offroad experience. (It's a bone shaker but if you get it on a clear day you won't believe the scenery, and it all begins with a misty waterfall).

I can provide notes, links, and further information on the historical and/or natural significance of each of the rides and how to link them to your advantage if your time is limited or you want to maximize your riding time.


General Notes (Only for those new to Mexico)

- The Green Angeles (Los Angeles Verdes) tourist assistance still operate on some of the major roads. Don't rely on this service but they can help with minor mechanical problems and towing advice.
- There are very few police patrols in these areas, you will be your own law for the most part and though there is mountain rescue available for the area near Pico de Orizaba and the Sierra Negra, it is not to be relied upon for anything more than a service of last resort in an emergency.
- Military patrols are infrequent but do pass some areas but on a weekly basis for the most part and not daily. In fact, there are few daily patrols of the more remote areas. But you will almost always find someone somewhere no matter where you are in either the state of Veracruz or Puebla.
- You MIGHT find someone who speaks MARGINAL English in the remote areas, and there is common use of Nahuatl indigenous language dialects especially in the Zongolica and Quimixtlan areas. Start learning Spanish.
- Three of the rides will take you to elevations beyond 3,200 meters of elevation, be sure you can handle heights especially if you are doing a rapid ascent from sea level. For example, you can easily ride from sea level in the port of Veracruz to the absolute peak of the Cofre de Perote at 4,500 meters in 3 hours which leaves little time for your acclimatization be sure you can handle upper elevations where you will have about half the oxygen that you have at sea level.
- Pemex stations can be found along these routes, however premium (the red handled pump) fuel probably will not be available but the lower grade Magna will be available.
- Carry small bills and change, don't expect everyone to be willing to break a $500 peso bill. Tip the Pemex attendants as they work for tips.
- Expect to attract a lot of attention in the remote areas. This can be both fun and frustrating depending on the type of attention it is.
- Celluar phone service cannot be relied upon in remote areas though there is surprisingly good coverage in certain areas.
- Almost every area will have a "tiendita" or little convenience store of some sort or another but don't expect to find many restaurants in the high sierra regions or in the remote areas of the high plains (ie. the Serdan Alta Plana)

MikeMike screwed with this post 02-04-2012 at 06:15 AM
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #230
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SInce I probably posted in the wrong thread originally, I'd thought I'd post these documents over here for anyone wanting to travel to Mexico with a BMWFS financed bike to read.










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Old 02-22-2012, 06:25 AM   #231
tricepilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acejones View Post
No problems if bike is registered in riders name. Nationality shouldn't matter. If not registered in riders name I would suggest notarized document authorizing rider to use the bike. I would also make sure the document is detailed to include VIN, description and license number. The more detailed, the better.
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Exactly. A rental document would be no different that any other document of authorization.
I strongly disagree with this observation.

If I own 2 bikes and both are registered in my name, I can't simply drum up a letter, even if its notorized and contains the bike's info, giving my pal "Eddy" permission to take the bike into Mexico.

At the very beginning here, I will say that it wouldn't take much to believe that such a document wouldn't actually work on a fluke, because if it did, my opinion would be that it would have confused that particular official at the aduana. What I'm saying is that there is no provision in their process to allow for such a document between friends or aquaintances.

Thinking this through, what a great way to steal a bike and sell it in Mexico, though. Just drum up a letter giving yourself permission to use "Eddy's" bike in Mexico. Further, if such letters did work as a process, if you're standing there with Eddy, why not just tell the aduana official that it's ok for Eddy to use the bike....or tell the aduana official you'll sign a piece of paper on the spot saying so.

The other way to prove I'm wrong is to apply online for a TVIP using your own passport and the title or registration of someone elses bike. Then throw the so-called letter of authorization from your buddy on top of it, and see what happens. The real proof in the pudding online is what happens during the document email validation phase of your TVIP process.

The point I really want to make here is this: Anyone else reading this and now contemplating that all they have to do in a similar situation with 2 bikes in one rider's name, and now plan to simply write a letter giving the other rider permission to ride it into Mexico, is that I advise them to be prepared to be rejected at an aduana. People who own more than one bike and who have friends they want to take to Mexico should attempt this "letter of authorization between friends" with their eyes wide open.

Remember, I wouldn't bet that it would never work, I would bet that it most often wouldn't work.

I could be wrong.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:39 AM   #232
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That's almost worth trying just for grits and shins.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:10 AM   #233
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That's almost worth trying just for grits and shins.
For me, I would have to have confidence that this process was completely legit and guaranteed to work, everytime.

Most people put too much time, effort, planning, and expecations into their Mexico moto adventures to do otherwise.

I've seen the two bikes in one owner's name scenerio plenty of times. The counsel I've seen given by others and the counsel I give, is to transfer one of the bikes into the other rider's name and have a completely clean title or registration for each bike. Then, reverse the process if need be once the trip is over.

Unless and until I learn that Mexico aduana completely recognizes and permits letters of authoriztion to use bikes between friends and aquaintances, I will continue to do the same.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:00 AM   #234
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Just spent some time on the phone with Skip Mascorro, owner of Motodiscovery motorcycle tours, based right near here in Spring Branch, Texas (just north of San Antonio).

Skip has been in the business of taking people to Mexico for over 30 years, and has seen it all.

He said at one time, the border procedure for bike permits was loosey goosey and almost anything could be done, but he now says Mexico has gotten her act together and with computer systems linking all the aduanas and the push to root out corruption (I think not too long ago a bunch of aduana officials were fired, but I'm hazy on the details) that even with the I's dotted and the T's crossed, documents are getting the once over like never before.

He often takes customers to Mexico on bikes he rents to them. He's had occasions recently where the aduana official even questioned the validity of his bona fide rental documents, because it didn't appear to be official enough.

Then we discussed the subject at hand, which is the possibility of simply signing a letter of authorization between friends or aquaintances when one rider owns both bikes, and he said, "no way".

I will say, that Skip has seen it and I have seen it where one rider has signed the title over to the other rider right there on the spot at the aduana, and this has worked. However, I have no recent anecdotal stories one way or the other to make a comment if this practice would still work. I will say if I had to bet, I believe it would. I could be wrong.

Skip did say that sometimes it comes down to "who is holding the stamp", and what judgement he makes, in unusual situations. We were in full agreement, however, that the normal process for aquiring a TVIP is straightforward and relatively painless, and we both emphasize that with so much often riding on the planning, prep, financial investment and expections of a good time in Mexico, why approach the border "rolling the dice" to see if you'll get in on a fluke. Skip was especially adamant about this aspect, and his experience in Mexico dwarfs mine.

Everyone's mileage varies, but my advice stands: unless and until it is a proven, legitimate, and "everyday" process for a friend or aquaintance who owns both bikes to be able to sign a "letter of authorization" over to get a TVIP for a friend, I wouldn't bet on or bank on the process.

Unless you didn't care if you lose the bet and were willing to go home.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:12 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
Just spent some time on the phone with Skip Mascorro, owner of Motodiscovery motorcycle tours, based right near here in Spring Branch, Texas (just north of San Antonio).

Skip has been in the business of taking people to Mexico for over 30 years, and has seen it all.

He said at one time, the border procedure for bike permits was loosey goosey and almost anything could be done, but he now says Mexico has gotten her act together and with computer systems linking all the aduanas and the push to root out corruption (I think not too long ago a bunch of aduana officials were fired, but I'm hazy on the details) that even with the I's dotted and the T's crossed, documents are getting the once over like never before.

He often takes customers to Mexico on bikes he rents to them. He's had occasions recently where the aduana official even questioned the validity of his bona fide rental documents, because it didn't appear to be official enough.

Then we discussed the subject at hand, which is the possibility of simply signing a letter of authorization between friends or aquaintances when one rider owns both bikes, and he said, "no way".

I will say, that Skip has seen it and I have seen it where one rider has signed the title over to the other rider right there on the spot at the aduana, and this has worked. However, I have no recent anecdotal stories one way or the other to make a comment if this practice would still work. I will say if I had to bet, I believe it would. I could be wrong.

Skip did say that sometimes it comes down to "who is holding the stamp", and what judgement he makes, in unusual situations. We were in full agreement, however, that the normal process for aquiring a TVIP is straightforward and relatively painless, and we both emphasize that with so much often riding on the planning, prep, financial investment and expections of a good time in Mexico, why approach the border "rolling the dice" to see if you'll get in on a fluke. Skip was especially adamant about this aspect, and his experience in Mexico dwarfs mine.

Everyone's mileage varies, but my advice stands: unless and until it is a proven, legitimate, and "everyday" process for a friend or aquaintance who owns both bikes to be able to sign a "letter of authorization" over to get a TVIP for a friend, I wouldn't bet on or bank on the process.

Unless you didn't care if you lose the bet and were willing to go home.
There's the "take away" statement right there for most Mexico travelers.

My subjective impression of the TVIP process is that it is handled by bank personnel (gov't bank, I know) who are less inclined to bend rules or yield to bribery than your run-of-the-mill government official.

When I meet with Kevin next week I'll get the story of the father who acquired a TVIP for his 17 year old son and post back here. Should be interesting as many bribes at several levels were reported to have been offered.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:59 AM   #236
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OK, I read every page. i've learned a few things here:

carry spare wheel bearings
don't get excited/take your time/be patient
tip the gas girls
follow somebody through town until you figure out the road signs
learn spanish ( difficult as i can't even understand south georgia!)
get tvip from home and turn it in when you get back to collect the deposit
cary originals and copies of dl, title, insurance
buy laptop

i wish adv rider had a MEXICO forum :)
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #237
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Why would you carry spare wheel bearings?
Most bearing shops here will easily source what you need and cost far less than at a dealer (of course) or at a US bearing shop.
If you are worried about your bearings, do them before starting out. Pack an electronic or physical hard copy of your manual instead.
Tipping the Pemex employees is common, and they are not just women that work there. This is an act of courtesy.
Figure out the road signs? Most are the same shape and color as in the USA. A simple look through an AAA Mexico travel guide book that you will find either very cheap or for free, will give you everything you need to know.
Too many people for their first time overcomplicate traveling in Mexico. They carry a ton of crap they don't need and then realize the stuff they do need is not packed.
The real idea of traveling in Mexico is to simply keep your passport, money, and other docs secure, keep a bottle of water with you or at least something to rehydrate with, don't drive at night, watch out for drunk pedestrians, drivers, and loose animals. Keep oil filters, air filters, cables with you if the model of bike you are riding has not been sold or supported in Mexico. You won't have to have someone ship them to you when they break when you are 100 miles from the nearest post office enjoying yourself.
That's all you need to know and that is all common sense.
The rest of it you'll learn as you go and enjoy the whole process so much, you will come back here and do it over again and again.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:34 AM   #238
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Why would you carry spare wheel bearings?
After a night hitting the mezcal many riders are found the next morning trying to find their bearings
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:11 AM   #239
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If that's the only thing they've lost, they can consider themselves lucky.
I think the worst thing to ever lose while drinking in Mexico is whatever footwear you had on when you started.
There's just something memorable about losing your boots/sandals/shoes/etc... in Mexico.
Going shopping for footwear with a king killer helluva hangover or while still loaded is exotic.
I think everyone on this forum can be glad that cel phone cameras, portable video cameras, etc...weren't so common back then.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:43 AM   #240
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Mike, I want to hear how you lost your footwear.

Trice, that's why I often stay near the Centro. You have to be pretty wasted not to be able to find that big park with a cathedral ;)


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