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Old 01-13-2010, 12:21 PM   #1441
chiba
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Hi Woody - you may have already addressed this question elsewhere in the thread, but it's long & I must have missed it if you did.

I have a '95 R1100GS. Apparently mine was made before they started doing something to the wheels that prevents this nasty pitting that's started on both my wheels.

I see the price list on your website, but I have no idea what service(s) would be required to clean up & protect my wheels. What's your advice as to what service(s) you would need to perform & how much it would cost?

Thanks.

--chiba
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:54 PM   #1442
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R1100GS wheel restoration...costs n options

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiba
Hi Woody - you may have already addressed this question elsewhere in the thread, but it's long & I must have missed it if you did.

I have a '95 R1100GS. Apparently mine was made before they started doing something to the wheels that prevents this nasty pitting that's started on both my wheels.

I see the price list on your website, but I have no idea what service(s) would be required to clean up & protect my wheels. What's your advice as to what service(s) you would need to perform & how much it would cost?

Thanks.

--chiba
* per wheel X-lace n true $150
*dismantling /prepping hub/rim/spokes $30-90
media blasting/prepping/powdercoating hubs if necessary circa $75
stripping anodizing or powdercoat rims if necessary $75
*ss &pc nipple kit upgrade circa $190

*items are for sure

hope that helps

ya may want to read this interesting thread about a guy doing this himself...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541052 later
woody
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:45 PM   #1443
scooteraug02
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Any of you not balance tires?

Woody,

Can you comment on this thread : Any of you not balance tires?

Since you are the wheel man I think you would know better than most who have commented. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:19 PM   #1444
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regarding riding on unbalanced wheels/tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooteraug02
Woody,

Can you comment on this thread : Any of you not balance tires?

Since you are the wheel man I think you would know better than most who have commented. Thanks in advance.
here's my take on balancing after reading the comments in the above thread,,,,

FYI,,,last week i lurked and truth be told LMAO....at some of the arguments in behalf of ''NOT'' balancing that i read in the above thread......

So for all of you committed to unbalanced wheels ...keep on bouncing down the roadjust because YOU don't notice/feel it doesn't mean the rest of us can't see your wheels hopping all over the place....

Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean your suspension system isn't working overtime to accommodate the orbit your wheel is destined to spin in. It's not rocket science ,,just plain and simple physics.,,try holding a one pound bar of butter in one hand a five pound sack of potatoes in the other and hold your arms apart and start spinning,,,oooops there ya go...

FYI...you have to start with a true wheel..why??? because only a true wheel will give you a ghost of a chance to be balanced.....we can balance most anything ..just plaster weights on the wheel til it balances out no matter where you stop it in its orbit....

IF your balanced out of round wheel goes down the highway it will still hop...

IF your true wheel and tire are balanced without weights ,,you are lucky..then it will not bounce goin gdown the road

IF your true wheel and tire are not balanced due to rim locks or tire anomalies like a little extra rubber in the tire casing or your mag wheel having the casting off center then you will hop down the road

Rx
1.. check wheel for true if ok ,,go mount your tire,,, if not correct the problem BEFORE mounting a tire

2..check wheel for balance with tire mounted,,, if ok ,,hit the road ,,,if not add balance weights to correct the imbalance and enjoy a more balanced ride..if you don't ,,,,at least your suspension and tires will

did i say that right,,,i mean was it understandable???,,'cmon now it is 2010 folks,,,but what the hey,,if the Ludites still insist on candles and kerosene lantern,,the Menonites on riding around in horse drawn carriages why not have the nobalancites go hopping down the highway of life???,,,,i do keep re-minding my self that everywhere i look i see the face of god.
woody

Here's a trick that will appeal to the forward thinking crowd....i used it on all my road-race and street machines....FYI almost all wheels have anomalies in them that do not make them perfectly balanced even when they run very true.
I often see alloy wheels that were grabbed off-center in the machining process. These drop like a stone wherever the heavy spot is...as will any wheel show you its true heavy point....so on to the fine points

MAG/ALLOY WHEELS
1..take your wheel complete ie with brake discs and valve stem installed and put it on your balancer....
2..mark the heavy spot,,,this is your new TRUE reference point ,,it may or may not be by the valve stem
3..mount your tire with the weight dot of tire next to your TRUE reference point..Voila,,,a better balance with less/minimal rotating mass,,,every ounce counts

WIRE WHEELS
1...same as above BUT,,,this time mount your inner tube with retaining nuts snugged loosely and put just enough air in tube so that it sits snug on the rim,,,
2..now find and mark the TRUE heavy point.
3..continue mounting your tire and installing your new tire's light spot/dot next to your TRUE heavy point on wheel

woody
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:24 AM   #1445
Motoriley
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A balanced view

Just to finish the discussion.....what are your thoughts on Dynabeads?


Quote:
Originally Posted by woody's wheel works
here's my take on balancing after reading the comments in the above thread,,,,

FYI,,,last week i lurked and truth be told LMAO....at some of the arguments in behalf of ''NOT'' balancing that i read in the above thread......

So for all of you committed to unbalanced wheels ...keep on bouncing down the roadjust because YOU don't notice/feel it doesn't mean the rest of us can't see your wheels hopping all over the place....

Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean your suspension system isn't working overtime to accommodate the orbit your wheel is destined to spin in. It's not rocket science ,,just plain and simple physics.,,try holding a one pound bar of butter in one hand a five pound sack of potatoes in the other and hold your arms apart and start spinning,,,oooops there ya go...

FYI...you have to start with a true wheel..why??? because only a true wheel will give you a ghost of a chance to be balanced.....we can balance most anything ..just plaster weights on the wheel til it balances out no matter where you stop it in its orbit....

IF your balanced out of round wheel goes down the highway it will still hop...

IF your true wheel and tire are balanced without weights ,,you are lucky..then it will not bounce goin gdown the road

IF your true wheel and tire are not balanced due to rim locks or tire anomalies like a little extra rubber in the tire casing or your mag wheel having the casting off center then you will hop down the road

Rx
1.. check wheel for true if ok hit go,,, if not correct the problem BEFORE mounting a tire

2..check wheel for balance with tire mounted,,, if ok ,,hit the road ,,,if not add balance weights to correct the imbalance and enjoy a more balanced ride..if you don't ,,,,at least your suspension and tires will

did i say that right,,,i mean was it understandable???,,'cmon now it is 2010 folks,,,but what the hey,,if the Ludites still insist on candles and kerosene lantern,,the Menonites on riding around in horse drawn carriages why not have the nobalancites go hopping down the highway of life???,,,,i do keep re-minding my self that everywhere i look i see the face of god.
woody
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:20 AM   #1446
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dynabeads and wheel balancing goops n fluids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoriley
Just to finish the discussion.....what are your thoughts on Dynabeads?
That's a product i haven't tried so no comment...

what i can comment on is that the liquids/goops of yore[and iim trying to remember the name of the product...please help me on that],,,were all show and no go....it didn't make sense to me that a liquid would want to flow to the opposite side of the orbit that the unbalanced tire was spinning in,,to me the stuff just compounded the problem,,,then after awhile the stuff would finally harden and form big balls rolling around in there...TUV the german inspection agency that has to approve anything you mount on a vehicle,,,nixed it big time.

here's the link to dyna-beads...
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/

and their recommendation chart....caveat emptor!!!

Motorcycles
Motorcycle applications are easy for all bikes, 2 wheel or 3 wheel
Front
80 - 120 mm tire width
1 oz
80 - 120 mm tire width (BMW Telelever only)
2 oz
130 mm tire width
2 oz
Rear

130 mm - 240 mm width
2 oz
250 mm - 360mm tire width
3 oz
195 - 205 car tires on the rear
3 oz
Scooters

10" diameter wheels (scooters)
1 oz
12" & Up diameter wheels (scooters)
2 oz
Dual Purpose / Off Road with Rim Locks

Front - 80 - 120 mm tire width
2 oz
Rear - 130 -230 mm width
3 oz
Rim Locks - add one ounce over what you normaly use for that size tire to accomodate the additional weight of the rim lock. Two rim locks opposite each other don't require any more Dyna Beads other than stated above, as they have a tendency to cancel each other out.
Note: Filtered valve cores do not fit all stems. They require a seat 1-1/4" down in the stem. If you cannot use them, simply rotate the tire so the valve stem is about the 6:00 position, then give the valve stem a quick shot of air prior to checking pressure.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:53 AM   #1447
chiba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody's wheel works
* per wheel X-lace n true $150
*dismantling /prepping hub/rim/spokes $30-90
media blasting/prepping/powdercoating hubs if necessary circa $75
stripping anodizing or powdercoat rims if necessary $75
*ss &pc nipple kit upgrade circa $190

*items are for sure

hope that helps

ya may want to read this interesting thread about a guy doing this himself...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541052 later
woody
Thanks for the info - looks like about $600 per wheel, unless only the x-lace is a per-wheel charge. I saw that thread. I'm pretty confident in many of the tasks I take on with my motorcycle. There's no way in hell I'm gonna try to disassemble the wheels on my own.

--chiba
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:05 PM   #1448
woody's wheel works OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiba
Thanks for the info - looks like about $600 per wheel, unless only the x-lace is a per-wheel charge. I saw that thread. I'm pretty confident in many of the tasks I take on with my motorcycle. There's no way in hell I'm gonna try to disassemble the wheels on my own.

--chiba
ususally it's between $400-600 /wheel for a restoration depending on all we do...

woody
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:28 PM   #1449
Killa Meter
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Gs 1200 spoke tightening pattern

Hi Woody,ive been searching but not getting anywhere even remotely fast,the rear wheel on my 07 gs 1200 seems like all of the spokes are slightly loose.
Especially compared to the front (which ive tightened a few loose spokes succesfully to sound the same)and to my other bikes which have regular rims.
I believe they all need tightening a small amount hence my problem.
On my other bikes i usually tighten any real loose spokes then use the pattern of every third spoke till im around the wheel three times and they dont go out of alignment too much ,and after a few rides on a new bike or wheel and a few checks they eventually settle.
Ive tried studying the gs wheel but there is no easy pattern it looks like from one side to the other and maybe up and down at the same timel .
What pattern should i use, if i need to tighten the whole lot?
What if i tightened the lot in the same increments ,say 1/8 of a turn would i end up where i am now just tighter or just out of true? Thanks....

Killa Meter screwed with this post 01-14-2010 at 06:14 PM
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:59 PM   #1450
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how do you true all loose spokes on a GS wheel???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa Meter
Hi Woody,ive been searching but not getting anywhere even remotely fast,the rear wheel on my 07 gs 1200 seems like all of the spokes are slightly loose.
Especially compared to the front (which ive tightened a few loose spokes succesfully to sound the same)and to my other bikes which have regular rims.
I believe they all need tightening a small amount hence my problem.
On my other bikes i usually tighten any real loose spokes then use the pattern of every third spoke till im around the wheel three times and they dont go out of alignment too much ,and after a few rides on a new bike or wheel and a few checks they eventually settle.
Ive tried studying the gs wheel but there is no easy pattern it looks like from one side to the other and maybe up and down at the same timel .
What pattern should i use, if i need to tighten the whole lot?
What if i tightened the lot in the same increments ,say 1/8 of a turn would i end up where i am now just tighter or just out of true? Thanks....
i can help you and have provided the tips on replacing a spoke or two in previous posts....beyond that you are on your own... and here's why :

1,,,i am clueless what your wheel/rim is doing ,,ie,how loose each spoke is at the present moment,
2,,,,how dirty your spokes and nipples are,,,, because this affects your torque reading..ie a 5NM torque reading with dirty spokes does not equal 5 Nm of tension with clean spokes n nipples ,,hence it wouldn't provide the correct tension you need
3,,,If they are dirty and 99% are ya have to take me apart ,,, clean,,, possibly chase the threads in the nipples or spend circa $190 for another set of new ones...when i say clean i mean SQueeKY clean
4,,,i do not haphazardly,,or even measuredly try to tighten/true a wheel in your situation without first measuring the offset and checking if the rim is true..i have 2 dial indicators on each side of the bead MY reference point because it is the beads location that determines your tires position get it

4,, like i mentioned in another post a few days ago your goal is to beat the loose/sloppy and acceptable by them run-out of .060'' left/right & up/down with the rim in the proper place left and right and all the spokes torqued to 5NM...now how you get there by just tightening spokes up in whatever pattern you proposed to me stretches my imagination

5,,, FYI #1 a common problem is that the spokes on your wheel will seat/settle in at different rates because of the varied heights of the serrated edges..this often cause the wheel to go out of true,,,now some nipples will have to be turned more to accommodate the looser spokes..so your turn em in equally won't work

6,,,FYI#2 quit driving your bike on that loose spoked wheel because you are hammering your wheel apart at a geometric rate...like holding your shotgun loose...the looser ya hold it ,,the harder it'll kick your butt...same goes for your wheel..it isn't pretty when that wheel decides to explode...remember you have a 600lb bike plus the load hanging by 6-10 spokes from the top of your rim the ten on the right and ten on the left keep your rim from blowing apart sideways and the 10 on the bottom are spectators....

7,,,for the time being it's better to tighten em up anyway that makes sense to you till you can get the wheel on a truing stand with the tire off to find out just where you are at..

remember my 37 year old mantra to wobbly wheel owners,,,it's better to have tight spokes and a crooked wheel then a straight wheel with loose spokes..the former will at least stay together til ya get to repair it ,,the latter will fail you and cause more damage to rim/hub/spoke bike and you if it explodes and ya rash...

gotta get some zzzzs
woody

did i miss something???
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:56 PM   #1451
Killa Meter
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Thanks Woody i knew there would be no easy solution being bmw n all.
Ill go through them all again sound wise just to double check none are a lot worse than others.
Gotta get new tyres soon anyway so its a good time to get it sorted.
How can i tell if they are too loose technicallly . I think they sound a little dull and they flex easily at the spoke crossing with thumb and forefinger , but Is there a proper way of measuring or determining if theyre loose maybe measuring flex between the rim and the hub or is it only with the torque wrench with perfectly clean spokes and nipples? So far im only going on my previous limited experience with spokes.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:09 AM   #1452
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if you don't have the ""feel"" get a torque wrench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa Meter
Thanks Woody i knew there would be no easy solution being bmw n all.
Ill go through them all again sound wise just to double check none are a lot worse than others.
Gotta get new tyres soon anyway so its a good time to get it sorted.
How can i tell if they are too loose technicallly . I think they sound a little dull and they flex easily at the spoke crossing with thumb and forefinger , but Is there a proper way of measuring or determining if theyre loose maybe measuring flex between the rim and the hub or is it only with the torque wrench with perfectly clean spokes and nipples? So far im only going on my previous limited experience with spokes.
like i said using the torque wrench is a crap shoot at this point based on what i already shared

the spokes have to have a high pitched 'ting' to them,,i use small 8mm wrench and tap them in the same place as i go around....if they thud ,,they are too loose. i think that a tension meter won't even fit on some of those spokes and may be more optimal for thin bicycle spokes....

good luck
woody
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:08 PM   #1453
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I was looking at my new to me R100gs, and noticed the front wheel is not centered, it is more to the right. Everything is stock and the brakes line up right. Is this normal? I measured the difference, it is 1/8 inch to the right.
I removed the wheel and reinstalled it. everything is on right, I did look at the rim and the arrow is pointing the direction of rotation. I run a straight edge from the hub to the rim on both sides and it is dished to the right.
This is the original wheel, so it came this way. My only thought is, it was done to align with the rear.
Thank you for your help.
John
This picture makes it look worse then it is.


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Old 01-17-2010, 10:06 PM   #1454
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you are right it IS mis-aligned ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyanvil
I was looking at my new to me R100gs, and noticed the front wheel is not centered, it is more to the right. Everything is stock and the brakes line up right. Is this normal? I measured the difference, it is 1/8 inch to the right.
I removed the wheel and reinstalled it. everything is on right, I did look at the rim and the arrow is pointing the direction of rotation. I run a straight edge from the hub to the rim on both sides and it is dished to the right.
This is the original wheel, so it came this way. My only thought is, it was done to align with the rear.
Thank you for your help.
John
This picture makes it look worse then it is.


the last check for sure is checking that it is centered between the fork legs..if not it needs to be centered for optimal performance...
you have X-laced wheels however...call me if you can't do it yourself,,woody

Ps i have the offset using the disc as a reference point..if it were a double disc brake it would also be centered between the disc as well as fork legs!!!
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:30 PM   #1455
MH950SE
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Alpina based build?

Hi Woody, I was wondering what your thoughts are on a wheel build that I am thinking about. First of all, I have a 950 SE and I would like to build up a set of tubeless wheels.

What I am thinking is a set of after-market hubs, superlaced to a set of Alpina STS tubeless rims. Is this possible? The only Alpina stuff that I found is a set of tubeless wheels for the 990 ADV, but for choice, I want to stay with the standard SE wheel sizes. Would it be possible to drill something like a DID Dirtstar rim to fit the Alpina STS spoke and nipple system?

If there is some sort of way to do this, let me know where to send the check!

Thanks in advance for your comments,
Mark
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