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Old 07-05-2006, 07:41 PM   #1
DirtMerchant OP
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Nikwax TX-Direct Wash In vs. Tectron DWR Spray

I want to add a little water resistance but retain some breathability on my Savanna II Jacket and Pants. I went to the local outfitter store and bought NIKWAS TX.DIRECT Wash-In and Tectron DWR Wet Guard Spray. The store owner said she prefered the Tectron DWR Spray to the was in on her hiking gear as it allowed the interior fabric to still absorb sweat. The sales girl said she liked the NIKWAX best. BTW, both of these say they are approved for Gore-Tex which I know is not part of the Savanna II but that is what the had, guess I can use it on my liner too.

So, I decided to buy both and return the one I decide to not use.

Any opinions?

Rodney
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Old 07-05-2006, 08:21 PM   #2
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I don't know the brand names right off the top of my head, but when I had my Aerostich I used the "wash in" and the spray waterproofer that they sell.

I rode in several downpours and always stayed dry. This was the 2 piece Roadcrafter suit with the bib attachment.

So...I don't see why you can't you both.

Just my two cents.
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Old 07-06-2006, 12:19 AM   #3
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I like the Nikwax, it works very well
I used it on my Joe Rocket ballistic jacket
Now I stay dry as a bone
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:11 AM   #4
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I treat my old (1999) Kilimanjaro (no generic-tex) twice annually

I wash in Nikwax TechWash
treat with NikWax WashIn
drip dry
spray with Nikwax SprayOn while still damp esp zippers, pockets, velcro flaps over vents etc

works good

I do the same with my HT Oberpants (with generic-tex)

works good too
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Old 07-06-2006, 12:22 PM   #5
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Nikwax spray on

I decided use a spary on DWR (NikWax) on my Darien after talking to a mountaineering co-worker who used to sell for a high end outdoors outfitter.

According to him, and it makes sense to me, wash in barriers cling to both sides of the garment, which means that you're coating any breathable liner on the inside of the garment as well as the outer shell on the outside. This will compromise the breathabilty of the garment. The DWR coating will eventually wear off due to the friction against your clothes worn under your riding suit. How long will it take to wear that coating off you ask? I have no idea, but keep in mind that the "D" stands for durable

I know you said you don't have Gore-tex in your jacket, but I would *guess* that most breathable fabrics work along the same prinipal. I haven't used the spray on product you referred to, but I can say that the NikWax spray works just fine.
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Old 07-06-2006, 12:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerj
I decided use a spary on DWR (NikWax) on my Darien after talking to a mountaineering co-worker who used to sell for a high end outdoors outfitter.

According to him, and it makes sense to me, wash in barriers cling to both sides of the garment, which means that you're coating any breathable liner on the inside of the garment as well as the outer shell on the outside. This will compromise the breathabilty of the garment. The DWR coating will eventually wear off due to the friction against your clothes worn under your riding suit. How long will it take to wear that coating off you ask? I have no idea, but keep in mind that the "D" stands for durable

I know you said you don't have Gore-tex in your jacket, but I would *guess* that most breathable fabrics work along the same prinipal. I haven't used the spray on product you referred to, but I can say that the NikWax spray works just fine.

the original Kilimanjaro was.... how do I say this ... not real breathable

there's a pvc layer on the inside of the jacket for waterproofing/windbreaking
the DWR is to keep the fabric from soaking up water and to seal small imperfections

the liner has holes the size of pencil leads, not gonna block 'em with ANY DWR

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtphreak
I treat my old (1999) Kilimanjaro (no generic-tex) twice annually

I wash in Nikwax TechWash
treat with NikWax WashIn
drip dry
spray with Nikwax SprayOn while still damp esp zippers, pockets, velcro flaps over vents etc

works good
ok NikWax Spray is what my shot-to-hell memory substituted for TX-Direct Spray-On


lets us think about how DWR's work shall we?

cloth fabrics are composed of many many strands of fiber, man-made or natural, which are twisted into yarn and woven into cloth fabric, ok?

you can fill all those gaps between the fibers and the yarns and it won't be breathable

or

you can weave it tightly and treat the fibers with a DWR which fills the interseces (gaps in the fiber itself) with a material that sheds or repels water, preventing water from soaking into the fiber and running off.


here's Answers.com's definition

Durable Water Repellent (DWR) finishes are hydrophobic coatings applied to fabrics to make them water-resistant by causing water to bead up and roll off fabrics, rather than soaking into them. They are often used in conjunction with certain waterproof/breathable fabrics to prevent the outer layer of a laminated waterproof/breathable from becoming saturated with water. Maintaining the DWR is critical to maintaining the breathable nature of waterproof/breathable outerwear.


if the outer layer of a goretex coat becomes soaked, it isn't breathable regardless of the gore-tex under it and it's heavy



the DWR works just like dyes and stainguards

there are openings (if you will) in the fibers
apply a dye and it fills some of the openings, resulting in a change in the basic color (usually opaque to translucent white) ... but not all of the openings

dirt also gets trapped in these openings

apply a CLEAR dye and you've just applied stainguard

it blocks some more of the openings without changing the color and keeps dirt from being trapped in the openings, so it releases easier

sorry 'bout the yakky yak, but it came from working in the textile machinery industry for a while

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xtphreak screwed with this post 07-06-2006 at 01:09 PM
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Old 07-06-2006, 12:58 PM   #7
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Another option...

...for those that may not have Nikwax, etc. available is Grangers. It is available at outdoor stores.
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Old 07-06-2006, 01:04 PM   #8
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As a note, the wash-in waterproofers need a good washing machine to get them in, at best a commercial front-loader. My home top-loader can't roll my Darien jacket and pants, so the wash-in stuff got unevenly applied. Works fine in a laundromat front-loader, though.

Hadn't heard about wash-in DWRs plugging the gore-tex such that it can't breathe. Haven't noticed anything like that with my Darien since re-treating it a month ago or so. Aerostich recommends the wash-in types...

Hmmmm....
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Old 07-06-2006, 01:09 PM   #9
xtphreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbandit76
As a note, the wash-in waterproofers need a good washing machine to get them in, at best a commercial front-loader. My home top-loader can't roll my Darien jacket and pants, so the wash-in stuff got unevenly applied. Works fine in a laundromat front-loader, though.

Hadn't heard about wash-in DWRs plugging the gore-tex such that it can't breathe. Haven't noticed anything like that with my Darien since re-treating it a month ago or so. Aerostich recommends the wash-in types...

Hmmmm....
it ain't a prob

the goretex openings won't be blocked by wash-in DWR's

and you don't even need a machine fer crissake

all you gotta do is TRANSPORT the DWR into the fabric, like SOAKING IT!!!

wash it with a non-detergent wash in a machine to clean it if you want, but the DWR will go in just fine soaking it in a washtub/rubbermaid bin/clean trash can/bathtub

agitate it occasionally to keep the DWR from rising to the top
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:12 PM   #10
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doesn't matter

i think dirtmerchant's original question had to do with waterproofing his savannah jacket. none of these products (which work pretty well for gore-tex fabrics) are going to make the savannah waterproof at all.

these products, which i use on my 'stich, won't make a normal fabric all of the sudden waterproof. you might try something like a scotch-guard water repellent spray on. not at all breathable, though.
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Old 07-06-2006, 10:22 PM   #11
DirtMerchant OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancowboy
i think dirtmerchant's original question had to do with waterproofing his savannah jacket. none of these products (which work pretty well for gore-tex fabrics) are going to make the savannah waterproof at all.

these products, which i use on my 'stich, won't make a normal fabric all of the sudden waterproof. you might try something like a scotch-guard water repellent spray on. not at all breathable, though.
Thanks to everyone who has replied to my x vs. y question; at least it is not as controversial as what oil to use.

I just finished baptizing my Savanna II Jacket and Pants in Nikwax TX.Direct Wash-In in the laundry room sink. I will report back in a couple weeks as to how or if it helped or whether it was a waste of fifteen bones.

Just so no one misunderstands me, I am not trying to make it waterproof just a little water resistant and faster drying for those quicky summer rains.....

Rodney
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancowboy
none of these products (which work pretty well for gore-tex fabrics) are going to make the savannah waterproof at all.

these products, which i use on my 'stich, won't make a normal fabric all of the sudden waterproof. you might try something like a scotch-guard water repellent spray on. not at all breathable, though.

Bunch of B.S. (IMHO and all)

As stated above, I used the Nikwax on my J.R jacket which was not at all waterproof
And now I stay dry as a bone, 'cept for one spot where it seeps through the zipper
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:37 AM   #13
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+1 for Nikwax Techwash and TX-Direct wash-in

+1 for the Nikwax products.

I'm not sure about how well they work on non-goretex fabrics although I use them on my tent and it works great. Water BEADS off and doesn't soak through.

Use the Nikwax TECHWASH first(green cap). Never wash with normal detergents as they fuck up the waterproofing big time and leave behind gunk and clog the ability of gore-tex to breathe.

THEN use the TX-direct (purple cap) to wash-in the DWR back into the fabric. If you read the directions the amount you need to use for a top-load washer and a front-load commercial unit are a LOT different. I've found the best way to do a 'stich suit or other big item like a tent is in a big plastic storage tub. Soak that bastard and just keep twisting it around so that it gets everywhere.

A stich suit feels half as bulky after being washed with the techwash to get the gunk of old crap laundry soap and bugs. It feels half again as bulky after you wax it with the DWR TX-Direct wash-in treatment. The fabric is all soft and bendy. After I do my tent, it only takes up half as much room in my tent bag it is so pliable and soft. It breathes so much better and is waterproof. The 'stich suit is way cooler and breathes again and feels LIGHTER when you wear it because it is soft and pliable instead of stiff, heavy and hot. It is almost 100% waterproof except for the zippers and if you use the spray-on stuff for the flaps and seams the only problem is the lap-portion that you just need to keep an eye on so the water does not puddle there and then work through to your crotch.

One other thing about the nikwax -the zippers also work much better and smoother as the wax just gets everywhere and putting on-off your suit is so much easier. Even if the treatment didn't help one bit with the waterproofing, having a lighter, more-breathable, more pliable suit and smoother zippers is worth it.

There are Grainger products that are basically the same thing as the Nikwax products. Go to REI or Gander Mountain and get them for about 8 or 9 bucks a bottle. They are the right stuff to use on riding gear and even camping gear like tents.

Give it a try. Spend $20 bucks on a bottle of Techwash and TX-Direct wash-in. Use a commerical washer at a laundromat or just do it in a big plastic tub. You will not regret it. I enjoy my 'Stich much more since I started using them. I wouldn't think of washing it in crappy laundry detergent again.

-Jim
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:56 PM   #14
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Reviving an old thread, just because...

I work at Nikwax. If you guys have any specific questions (or non-specific questions, for that matter) drop me a PM or call me at work
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DantesDame
Reviving an old thread, just because...

I work at Nikwax. If you guys have any specific questions (or non-specific questions, for that matter) drop me a PM or call me at work
Could you make a product with a heavy V.O.C. load please. Something without any pigment
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