ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Sports
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 142 votes, 4.77 average. Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 06:12 AM   #26176
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmoreBandit View Post
Gumm, I hear Fountainhead had lots of new suff recently built and would be worth the check out trip down. Did you ever get out there? Also, when is that MoCo Epic 50...isn't that coming up soon down close to NOVA?
MoCo epic was a few weeks ago. Buddy of mine rode it. Said other than getting lost, he said it was a good time.

I've ridden FH a few times now. Lots of fun. They've got a grant to move/fix some of the trails on the back side. Let's hope they don't make it 'flowy' and keep it like 'real' mtn biking like I 'grew up' riding.

IOW you have to know how to *ride* roots, rocks, and trails that aren't banked perfectly.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:20 AM   #26177
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by inyang View Post
\
Yes. Drafting gains about 30+x% but you need to be fit and at similar levels to gain from this
Fixt and not true. Drafting is how a stronger rider can get in a good workout while a weaker rider can hope to keep up and get better, but can still ride together.

Quote:
For me at my current level of riding, better gains from being forced to ride above my 'riding alone' threshold
Going that extra distance because others are doing it.
Seeing the guy on a supermarket bike ahead of you on your carbon fibre, ultra light, current model is sometimes worth xxx Watts over a considerable distance
It all depends on what ride you're doing that day. If I'm out for an easy day, that guy on the dept store bike can stay there for all I care. If I'm out doing intervals, he's gonna get left in the dust at some point.

Constantly chasing higher and higher average speeds is a bad way to train. ...unless you're a triathlete or TT rider.

The biggest mistake I see new riders making is riding too hard on slow days and too slow on hard days. (or not having a clue that there ARE slow days and hard days)

Quote:
PelOton higher speeds and paceline efficiencies are key reasons why breakaways are caught so well in major tours.
fixt for spelling. That and motivation. The break knows that the sprinters/climbers/GC guys want the stage/win so their teams are gonna turn themselves inside out to get the win. Its very very difficult to hold off several teams of 7-8 guys riding hard to catch you. Heck! its hard to hold off 1 guy that's riding to catch you. He's got a carrot...

There's a few exceptions to the above scenario. Paris-Roubaix is one of em. Gotta love the cobbles!

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:38 AM   #26178
Aurelius
Beastly Adventurer
 
Aurelius's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida
Oddometer: 21,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Fixt and not true. Drafting is how a stronger rider can get in a good workout while a weaker rider can hope to keep up and get better, but can still ride together.
M
How close do you have to be to other riders to derive any benefit from drafting? I imagine those riding in the middle of the peloton would be better shielded from wind resistance than the others around him, no?
__________________
Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
Aurelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:39 AM   #26179
Chisenhallw
Avowed Pussbag
 
Chisenhallw's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: I've narrowed it down to 'earth'. Or 'Baltimore'.
Oddometer: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Constantly chasing higher and higher average speeds is a bad way to train. ...unless you're a triathlete or TT rider.
__________________
2001 Kawasaki Concours
2001 Suzuki SV650
MD ABC TOR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainbelt View Post
I wanna go terrorize hipsters at farmers markets... in first and second gear. Farm fresh burnouts for all!
Chisenhallw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:40 AM   #26180
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
How close do you have to be to other riders to derive any benefit from drafting? I imagine those riding in the middle of the peloton would be better shielded from wind resistance than the others around him, no?
Depends on speed and wind. Fairly close to fairly far away. 6-8-ish inches is fairly normal for road drafting.

Mtn biking? I wouldn't recommend it. Too many nasties waiting to grab yer wheels when you can't see what's going on cause you're so close to the guy in front of you.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:41 AM   #26181
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
Dood!

No?!



M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:47 AM   #26182
ducnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: central IL
Oddometer: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Paris-Roubaix is one of em. Gotta love the cobbles!
I love the classics!!!!!!
__________________
'09 Triumph Tiger1050
'96 Ducati 900SS
'02 Suzuki SV650S (hers)
ducnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:48 AM   #26183
Aurelius
Beastly Adventurer
 
Aurelius's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida
Oddometer: 21,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Depends on speed and wind. Fairly close to fairly far away. 6-8-ish inches is fairly normal for road drafting.
Oooh, that's scary close. Don't think I'll try that, then. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Quote:
Mtn biking? I wouldn't recommend it. Too many nasties waiting to grab yer wheels when you can't see what's going on cause you're so close to the guy in front of you.

M
No, I'm talking road bike. On dirt trails, I leave LOTS of room between me and other riders. I've seen what happens when you don't.
__________________
Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
Aurelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:48 AM   #26184
Chisenhallw
Avowed Pussbag
 
Chisenhallw's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: I've narrowed it down to 'earth'. Or 'Baltimore'.
Oddometer: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Dood!

No?!



M
Dood, I'm a triathlete. I absolutely train for a higher average speed.
__________________
2001 Kawasaki Concours
2001 Suzuki SV650
MD ABC TOR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainbelt View Post
I wanna go terrorize hipsters at farmers markets... in first and second gear. Farm fresh burnouts for all!
Chisenhallw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #26185
Aurelius
Beastly Adventurer
 
Aurelius's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida
Oddometer: 21,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Constantly chasing higher and higher average speeds is a bad way to train.
M
Is it? I always try to beat at least one PR when I'm out on a ride. It's of the utmost importance for me to beat the Strava records of other riders I know.
__________________
Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
Aurelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:41 AM   #26186
inyang
5secs away
 
inyang's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Lagos/Port Harcourt, Nigeria
Oddometer: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post

Constantly chasing higher and higher average speeds is a bad way to train. ...unless you're a triathlete or TT rider.

M
Why?

Do explain please.

January 2013 Avg Speed - N km/h
June 2013 Avg Speed n+x km/h = bad??

I was under the impression that most training plans will net you a higher average speed (over the same course/conditions) in addition to other benefits. Gains will decrease as you ramp up like in most other things.
__________________
'11 - 690R
inyang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 AM   #26187
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
Dood, I'm a triathlete. I absolutely train for a higher average speed.
aaah phew! Thank doG!

...except that triathlete part. Here I was thinking you was kewl.



AFA chasing average speeds: There's a few reasons. First and biggest one is that if you're always chasing higher averages, you're always riding what amounts to one speed. If you're a TTist or triathlete, this is fine 'cause riding at threshold is where its at.

As a cyclist, especially one that rides with others, you need to be able to surge, soft-pedal, attack, etc. that only riding one speed can't get you. Add to that the need to let your muscles recover and rebuild and you get stagnation and burnout.

The second reason is avg speed is pretty well meaningless as a measurement device. There's headwinds, tailwinds, hills (up and down), etc. that all make 'average' anything worthless.

...and the third is it leads to bad behavior on the bike. Running stop signs, etc. all in the name of 'higher average speeds.' Like the guy yelling 'strava!' and expecting you to move 'cause he's trying to get a KOM...

You wanna get faster? Go get Friel's book and follow his plan. That includes intervals and sprints. ...and ride with faster guys. Find a group ride that pushes you and hang on as long as you can.

Learning to surf the pack is yet another skill that a cyclist needs to learn. Actually, there's an entire sub-set of skills that aren't being taught any more. Like how to rotate the opposite direction when the wind changes direction. How to shit-hook. How to ride a paceline effectively and correctly. Echelons etc etc etc

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:54 AM   #26188
Stinez
Rhymes with Heinz :D
 
Stinez's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Nor Cal
Oddometer: 47,014
Why would Street riding in a group of similar quality riders be a better training workout than a solo ride?

I can certainly see how the social aspect may be motivational and how the millage may increase but I find that I get more out of solo rides with simply improving on past performance as my goal.

Humm...I see that Gummee has somewhat answered my question with the above post so never mind unless there's more to add.
__________________
.

The GOP puts the "Con" in Conservative.

Stinez screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 09:04 AM
Stinez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:57 AM   #26189
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinez View Post
Why would riding in a group of similar quality riders be a better training workout than a solo ride?
Cause (done right) you can go farther faster with a group than you can solo. Carrots in front of you, etc.

Quote:
I can certainly see how the social aspect may be motivational and how the millage may increase but I find that I get more out of solo rides with simply improving on past performance as my goal.
Without something to compare to, why's it matter? Sure you can be fast, but why? Why are you trying to be fast?

...and what are you trying to measure? Max power? TT times? Max speed in a sprint? Max uphill speed?

Which loops us back to 'why?' You tryin to beat someone up the hill? Hang with the fast guys? Finish the rando in X hours?

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #26190
Aurelius
Beastly Adventurer
 
Aurelius's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida
Oddometer: 21,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Like the guy yelling 'strava!' and expecting you to move 'cause he's trying to get a KOM...

M
What an excellent suggestion! I'll be sure to do that the next time I'm out riding.
__________________
Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
Aurelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014