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Old 07-07-2013, 09:08 PM   #29866
El Guero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
That bolded section is why I always have 2 of everything important. If you wanna ride daily, not only do you spread the wear over multiple whosits, if one gets wet/sweaty you wear the other. Then, the day after, go back to whosit #1

2 helmets, 2 pr shoes, multiple pairs of shorts, etc. I typically buy one top of the line whosit/year (when I have $) . Move the 'old' stuff down to backup/rain duty, then to mtn bike duty (or commuting) and keep on moving the stuff down the line to 'give it to a new rider.'

Next up: new mtn shoes. After that: road shoes. Next spring: helmet(s)
Don't think I'll have multiple helmets or shoes for RAGBRAI. I'm in trouble
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:24 PM   #29867
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Oof-da. I got in a nice ride today, from Redwood City (CA) out to the coast and back. The route was through Woodside, up Old La Honda road, then along Skyline, to a thrilling descent on Alpine Road. At the bottom, we took Pescadero Road out to, yes, Pescadero. Then along Doc Wong's route - Stage Rd to Highway 1 for a bit, then 2000 feet upTunitas Creek back to Skyline, whipping down King Mountain Road, and back down Woodside road to Redwood City.

It was 68 miles, and something like 7,000 feet cumulative ascent/descent. It's fun to ride roads on a bicycle that I've done more often on motorcycles... somehow the scenery feels richer, with added smells and sights. Maybe has something to do with going uphill at 5 mph, instead of 45

Bonus on this ride: The Bike Hut on Tunitas Creek, a self-service, honor-system un-staffed bicycle rest stop with snacks, drinks, and water.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:02 AM   #29868
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Coupla observations:

1. a HRM won't mean squat if you don't 'train.' (ditto with a power meter)

2. Training implies you're trying to get fit for something. Training is also a whole lot less fun than JRA. The intervals, etc hurt. Training is cyclical. You won't be in top form very long, so you need to plan your season(s) to peak at certain points. If its not a big race, maybe it could be like Kbasa's 'Kill me now, there's MOUNTAINS on that ride'
ride.
The only kind of racing I have in mind is time trials. There's a group out of Orlando doing it, but I need to learn more about how they train for their races. They're a pretty laid back group, so they may not even train at all.

Quote:
3. if that's your bike in the pic, you need to get longer and lower. Longer and lower = more aero = free speed.
The Venge I'm sitting on was set up for me by Adam Baskin (catonefitness.com), using the Retul system. I normally ride with my hands on the drops, but for this training session the instructor wanted me to sit with my hands on the hoods.

Quote:
4. Train your strengths. Race your weaknesses
What does that mean?

Quote:
5. Get Friel's book (or another similar book) and plan out the year. I need to do the second half myself. I finished up the first half of my year by screwing up the peak. Oh well. There's cross season coming up! :rick
What is the title of this book?
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:53 AM   #29869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
The only kind of racing I have in mind is time trials. There's a group out of Orlando doing it, but I need to learn more about how they train for their races. They're a pretty laid back group, so they may not even train at all.



The Venge I'm sitting on was set up for me by Adam Baskin (catonefitness.com), using the Retul system. I normally ride with my hands on the drops, but for this training session the instructor wanted me to sit with my hands on the hoods.



What does that mean?



What is the title of this book?

Joe Friel
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/
he has an excellent Blog and tons of charts and info available on the web. He specializes in training for endurance athletes. He has a very good receipe.

train your strengths, race your weakness.
Gummee will have a completely different analogy or perspective I am sure, but to me this always meant be a monster at what your good at first, then the rest will come. I havent raced a bicycle in 12+ years but for dirtbikes and harescrambles I followed the same logic. I always had good cardio and I live in a very hilly area. I would train the hell out of cardio and hill climbs, I started riding dirtbikes late and im not very good at it, so a lot of the technical stuff I gloss over. When I was racing, the strong cardio and hill climbs skills would push me through the stuff I was bad at. I could pass tons of people on the hills and late in the race, when you face a weakness during a race the drive to win will push you through it. Sometimes removing a weakness takes a TON of time and practice, often times you can make bigger strides in less time when training your strengths. I am just a dumb hillbilly so that probably didnt make any sense

Gummee probably meant something a little different but thats my take on it. I guess I would say it more like "Excel at your strengths, race through your weakness"

Rider_WV screwed with this post 07-08-2013 at 07:16 AM
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:11 AM   #29870
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider_WV View Post
Joe Friel
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/
he has an excellent Blog and tons of charts and info available on the web. He specializes in training for endurance athletes. He has a very good receipe.
Nice! Lot's of good stuff there.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:36 AM   #29871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
That bolded section is why I always have 2 of everything important. If you wanna ride daily, not only do you spread the wear over multiple whosits, if one gets wet/sweaty you wear the other. Then, the day after, go back to whosit #1

2 helmets, 2 pr shoes, multiple pairs of shorts, etc. I typically buy one top of the line whosit/year (when I have $) . Move the 'old' stuff down to backup/rain duty, then to mtn bike duty (or commuting) and keep on moving the stuff down the line to 'give it to a new rider.'

Next up: new mtn shoes. After that: road shoes. Next spring: helmet(s)
Yep, did spin class yesterday due to the shoe shortage. I wish the shops around here carried shoes in size 13 Wide. Those are pecial order only. The Lake MX165 shoes are no longer in production and are out of stock. Gotta find something that fits my hobbit feet as well as my current pair. Anybody have suggestions for shoes that are truly wide fitment as in EE?
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:37 AM   #29872
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Originally Posted by enduro0125 View Post
Balled up newspaper stuffed inside does wonders on wet shoes.
Thank you kindly.
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"A guy I know was the lead researcher for the University of Utah federally funded study of cellphone and texting use while driving. He found that your twice as dangerous as a drunk while using your cell phone and I think it was up to six times worse if the driver was texting."-dakardad
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:06 AM   #29873
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider_WV View Post
Joe Friel
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/
he has an excellent Blog and tons of charts and info available on the web. He specializes in training for endurance athletes. He has a very good receipe.

train your strengths, race your weakness.
Gummee will have a completely different analogy or perspective I am sure, but to me this always meant be a monster at what your good at first, then the rest will come. I havent raced a bicycle in 12+ years but for dirtbikes and harescrambles I followed the same logic. I always had good cardio and I live in a very hilly area. I would train the hell out of cardio and hill climbs, I started riding dirtbikes late and im not very good at it, so a lot of the technical stuff I gloss over. When I was racing, the strong cardio and hill climbs skills would push me through the stuff I was bad at. I could pass tons of people on the hills and late in the race, when you face a weakness during a race the drive to win will push you through it. Sometimes removing a weakness takes a TON of time and practice, often times you can make bigger strides in less time when training your strengths. I am just a dumb hillbilly so that probably didnt make any sense

Gummee probably meant something a little different but thats my take on it. I guess I would say it more like "Excel at your strengths, race through your weakness"
Actually it does. The only reason my preference would be to work on my weaknesses first is because I'm likely to forget about them if I don't. We don't really have hills here in Florida, so I was unaware of how poor my hill climbing abilities were until I had to put them to the test.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:55 PM   #29874
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Friel's book has a lot of good stuff. The sections on determining your strenghts and weaknesses (as a racer) is good, as is the section on planning your season (applicable to anyone who wants to peak for important events). The training parts are good if you race crits and normal length road races.

I like races with lots of climbing and longer climbing races and event rides (like the Death Ride, this will be my 10th), so my training is a little different than standard Friel. And I have gotten burned out in the past from doing too much high intensity. So I now work more on threshold power.

If you're not racing and are say interested in centuries then there are better books for that kind of training. It's a bit old now but Matheny's Long Distance Cycling is still good for century and beyond training.
If you are interested in the Death Ride and similar events Arnie Baker has a book specifically on training for that type of ride. Arnie puts on Death Ride training camps called the Near Death Experience.
I think that it is important to not make riding a chore by taking training too seriously.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:27 PM   #29875
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericm View Post
Friel's book has a lot of good stuff. The sections on determining your strenghts and weaknesses (as a racer) is good, as is the section on planning your season (applicable to anyone who wants to peak for important events). The training parts are good if you race crits and normal length road races.

I like races with lots of climbing and longer climbing races and event rides (like the Death Ride, this will be my 10th), so my training is a little different than standard Friel. And I have gotten burned out in the past from doing too much high intensity. So I now work more on threshold power.

If you're not racing and are say interested in centuries then there are better books for that kind of training. It's a bit old now but Matheny's Long Distance Cycling is still good for century and beyond training.
If you are interested in the Death Ride and similar events Arnie Baker has a book specifically on training for that type of ride. Arnie puts on Death Ride training camps called the Near Death Experience.
I think that it is important to not make riding a chore by taking training too seriously.
The only kind of racing that appeals to me are relatively short distance time trials, like the 5-7 mile TT races they hold locally. To do that, I need to train myself to put out maximum power over those distances, which presently I can't do.

You're definitely right about not making training a chore. Over the past few weeks, all my road rides have been done for the specific purpose of bettering my personal records and/or beating everyone else's records. It's an all-out effort, and by the time I cross the finish line I feel ready to pass out from the exertion. After a while, I really started dreading it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:17 PM   #29876
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Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Oof-da. I got in a nice ride today, from Redwood City (CA) out to the coast and back. The route was through Woodside, up Old La Honda road, then along Skyline, to a thrilling descent on Alpine Road. At the bottom, we took Pescadero Road out to, yes, Pescadero. Then along Doc Wong's route - Stage Rd to Highway 1 for a bit, then 2000 feet upTunitas Creek back to Skyline, whipping down King Mountain Road, and back down Woodside road to Redwood City.

It was 68 miles, and something like 7,000 feet cumulative ascent/descent. It's fun to ride roads on a bicycle that I've done more often on motorcycles... somehow the scenery feels richer, with added smells and sights. Maybe has something to do with going uphill at 5 mph, instead of 45

Bonus on this ride: The Bike Hut on Tunitas Creek, a self-service, honor-system un-staffed bicycle rest stop with snacks, drinks, and water.
I love all those roads and I'd much rather be descending Alpine than climbing it, that's for sure. And is the Bike Hut the coolest thing ever? Even though TUnitas Creek is tough, it's in the top 5 most beautiful roads I've ever ridden. The redwoods are magnificent. I love hearing the bird songs in the trees and being more "in" the space than just passing through it. You see the pine needles on the road, the little flowers growing in the cracks in the pavement and detail that you simply can't absorb at speed on a moto.

Aurelius, the HR monitor is your tach. Read up on HR zones and you'll get some ideas about how to use it. Much of my training revolves around climbing, but managing HR so I can complete longer rides more easily is where it's at for me.

Climbing is never easy, that's for sure, but I've had amazing progress this year by doing lots and lots of goblet squats. Technique is key, so keep that weight back on your heels. Good glutes and hamstrings are the key to climbing, as is a solid core. When your legs are throwing a couple hundred watts down through the pedals, you need to be able to keep those hips from rocking and directing that power where it's needed.

Good on ya. I used to hate climbing, but now I actually really enjoy it.

Until the grades hit north of 15%.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:44 PM   #29877
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Part of the hill near my house from the profile of riding it last year.



The elevation isn't high, but it is steep. There aer some long steep climbs around here. Good thing it doesn't snow.

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Old 07-08-2013, 05:14 PM   #29878
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I like both climbing and descending but I'd rather climb Alpine than descend it. I just don't get into the flow going down that road. I like the descents on Kings, Diablo and Mt Ham more. And anything in the Eastern Sierra.

HR can be useful for pacing but you need to know yourself well. LTHR, unlike HRmax, can vary with fitness. And HR can be affected by outside factors like high temperates and dehydration, and by getting excited because you're in a race. :) It also lags effort by at least a couple minutes. So if you start your TT with a HR goal and don't dose your effort while waiting for the HR to come up, you will be going too hard for the first couple minutes.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:21 PM   #29879
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Part of the hill near my house from the profile of riding it last year.


The elevation isn't high, but it is steep. There aer some long steep climbs around here. Good thing it doesn't snow.
I know exactly what you mean.



It seems all my climbs start out with that first little holy crap that's steep part, then settles in to something manageable. This is the hill that is .8 mile, 10.6% grade. It's the first part that is over 20%, then gets reasonable until right at the top where it goes back up to 20%. I did swap out my cassette yesterday to give me a 28 instead of a 26 for my biggest gear(thanks monte). Now I just have to see when the weather is going to cooperate with my vacation schedule.


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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I headed over to David's World Cycle this morning to do an introductory 'racing' class.
Is that the computrainer system? I've been wanting to get one of those for winters in my basement for years now. I'm betting this would be the time of year to look for one and get it set up. I always wait until christmas time, and obviously, that's a real idiotic thing to go buying then.Off to scan ebay and craiglist for one.....
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:20 PM   #29880
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So I just did a practice run on my trainer after synchronizing the heart rate monitor with my GPS. Damned thing nearly killed me. The goal was to maintain a steady speed of 20 mph for as long as I could at a cadence of 80 rpm. On the road, that's well below my 'cruising speed', but the steady resistance offered by the trainer (which I can't lessen) makes it much harder. After only 10 minutes, my heart rate had climbed to 158 bpm. Not knowing how much higher it can go, I got concerned that it might stop working altogether, so I decided to call it quits and jumped into the shower. I need to find out what my Max heart rate is before I attempt this again.
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