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Old 07-28-2006, 11:34 AM   #1
Para504 OP
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'02 640 Adv swap to Hydr. Clutch

Hi guys,

I'm looking to doing a swap over to a hydraulic clutch setup. I've been hunting around with various searches, but I'm coming up short. I've seen the generic "magura" swap, which requires grinding, etc. but I was wondering if anyone has replaced there's with a '03+ setup? If so, did it require new switch gear as well as the clutch setup? From what I understand as well, where the clutch line interfaces with the case may be different (not work) between the '02 and '03+ (vs the generic Magura kit)?
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Old 07-28-2006, 12:48 PM   #2
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Just takes a bit of Dremel work. No big deal. Here's the thread you're looking for.
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Old 07-29-2006, 02:55 PM   #3
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I installed one of the Magura kits (Jack) on my 00 Duke II about a year ago. It works real nice and was easy to install. The only thing I had to do was file a small groove in the front of the switch housing so the little red ajustment knob would clear. It only took about a minuit to do and isnt noticible with the clutch lever installed. I have read that the with the newer kits you dont have to do this.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:46 PM   #4
Para504 OP
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Thanks guys - it sounds like most are going directly to Magura vs going through the KTM parts bin or "clutch kit"?
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Old 07-29-2006, 07:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Para504
Thanks guys - it sounds like most are going directly to Magura vs going through the KTM parts bin or "clutch kit"?
The Magura Jack kit is a cable eliminator with a slave cylinder/clutch lever actuator that installs in place of the cable.

The '03 and later OEM hydro clutch uses a slave cylinder assembly that bolts on to the ('03 and later) crankcase and operates the clutch pushrod directly, without the use of shafts and levers.
These components will not fit a '02 and earlier bike... at least not without fitting $1200 worth of '03 and later crankcases.

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Old 07-30-2006, 06:19 AM   #6
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Ok, thats was I was afraid of (going the KTM route). Thanks, you just saved me a lot of trouble!
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Old 07-30-2006, 08:05 AM   #7
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Why do you want to do this? If you aren't riding your bike so hard that you are having serious difficulty modulating the clutch because the engagement point changes as the clutch heats up, then don't do it.

I have one on my bike (came with it). Yes it feels nice but only when it works. It is the only thing that has ever given me any trouble on this bike and is the likely cause of the issues I now have of getting into first gear coming to a stop.


So far my problems have been:

1) I've had to replace the original slave cylinder when it dumped on my way home from work, leaving me with no clutch. Replaced it with a Jack cylinder.

2) I've had to rebuild the master cylinder when it started leaking the oil out deep in the Arkansas woods. I had to ride out in 2nd gear and use the kill switch to go 12 miles back to the hotel (and thankfully my truck).

3) 3 days ago I was on my way to work when oil started leaking again. I had to turn around and come home and drive said truck to work. This time the hose was leaking from around the barb fitting on the banjo that goes to the slave.

My experience is once it starts leaking, you have very few pulls before all of the oil leaks out.

Personally, I wouldn't put one on on a bet. Just get another clutch cable and zip tie it next to the existing one. If the previous owner of my bike had given me the take off clutch parts, I'd sell you my hydraulic set up cheap. As it is, I've spent so much money on it and canaballized one Gaspipe let me borrow to the point I need to just buy it and have a complete second setup ready to go. I do keep a MC rebuild kit with my tools. Stubborn I guess.

YMMV.
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DC950 screwed with this post 07-30-2006 at 12:32 PM
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC950
... It (hydraulic clutch) is the only thing that has ever given me any trouble on this bike and is the likely cause of the issues I now have of getting into first gear coming to a stop.

...
I have an 03, and I have not had any leaking issues like you (did you contact Magura?), but I do have to let the clutch lever out a tad in order to slip it into first when stopped. Obviously the clutch is still disengaged, but it is close to engaging when I can slip it in, so I can't imagine WTF is in the way of the switching gears.

I don't even think about it anymore, and if the problem could degrade, it hasn't (reaching 10K miles and the issue has always been there). I believe it is not consistent, meaning I believe sometimes it does slip right in - but like I said, I don't think about it anymore (probably because it hasn't caused any control problems). I was guessing it was an adjustment or alignment problem inside (clutch/tranny), but I am not about to split the cases...
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC950
So far my problems have been:

1) I've had to replace the origninal slave cylinder when it dumped on my way home from work, leaving me with no clutch. Replaced it with a Jack cylinder.

2) I've had to rebuild the master cylinder when it started leaking the oil out deep in the Arkansas woods. I had to ride out in 2nd gear and use the kill switch to go 12 miles back to the hotel (and thankfully my truck).

3) 3 days ago I was on my way to work when oil started leaking again. I had to turn around and come home and drive said truck to work. This time the hose was leaking from around the barb fitting on the banjo that goes to the slave.

My experience is once it starts leaking, you have very few pulls before all of the oil leaks out.

Personally, I wouldn't put one on on a bet.
YMMV.
i agree with everything mr dc has to say. the kit (although some have been happy) offers no real benefit over a cable. as he said... run a second cable and zip tie it to the existing one. if it breaks while riding you can flip it over in minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
I have an 03, and I have not had any leaking issues like you (did you contact Magura?).
read creeps post. your clutch is an oem ktm unit with internal slave cylinder. it is not a kit. it was designed for your bike and does offer a number of advantages the aftermarket retrofit does not.

you aint comparing apples to apples.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
I have an 03, and I have not had any leaking issues like you (did you contact Magura?), but I do have to let the clutch lever out a tad in order to slip it into first when stopped. Obviously the clutch is still disengaged, but it is close to engaging when I can slip it in, so I can't imagine WTF is in the way of the switching gears.

I don't even think about it anymore, and if the problem could degrade, it hasn't (reaching 10K miles and the issue has always been there). I believe it is not consistent, meaning I believe sometimes it does slip right in - but like I said, I don't think about it anymore (probably because it hasn't caused any control problems). I was guessing it was an adjustment or alignment problem inside (clutch/tranny), but I am not about to split the cases...
I believe the shifting problems are a direct result of many unavoidable 1-2-1 gear grindings. You have to do what you have to do to get home or out of the Arkansas woods. That is unless you really want to marry a banjo player.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
i agree with everything mr dc has to say. the kit (although some have been happy) offers no real benefit over a cable. as he said... run a second cable and zip tie it to the existing one. if it breaks while riding you can flip it over in minutes.
The Motion Pro cables look plenty beefy. They might also help in addition to having a second ready and waiting. Someone recently posted some pics comparing the Motion Pro cables to OEM - noticeable differences.

I also wonder how common it is for folks to lube their cables? I see the little widgets to help lube cables, but I never hear anyone talk about lubing cables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
read creeps post. your clutch is an oem ktm unit with internal slave cylinder. it is not a kit. it was designed for your bike and does offer a number of advantages the aftermarket retrofit does not.

you aint comparing apples to apples.
yeah, good info. but I was just trying to point out that the OEM hydro clutch can have some shifting issues (which may not be Magura related), without leaking problems.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:52 PM   #12
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never used a motion pro cable... i still have the original cable on my bike with 25k on the bike. there is a second one zip tied to it just incase though.

never have lubed my cables. maybe one day it'll get me. but i've got spares on there so....

gotcha with the hydro issues you've had. i have an oem magura hydraulic clutch on my exc. i believe it's the same as your 640. never had problems with it, but i bleed it regularily... i just don't trust it. if it leaks i'm screwed. if i had a cable and a spare i'm covered.
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
The Motion Pro cables look plenty beefy. They might also help in addition to having a second ready and waiting. Someone recently posted some pics comparing the Motion Pro cables to OEM - noticeable differences.
My CCM Supermoto came with the same Domino controls and after its cable snapped right at the ferrule (same place I've seen LC4 cables go), I took a close look at the lever and the spot where the cable break occurred coincided with some burrs in the channel in the lever right where it (the cable) passes through. I cleaned the area up with a file and never had any more problems. It's worth a look even if the stock cable has never had a problem.

I swapped for the hydro clutch because I love the superb feel and pull and it's been 100% reliable over several Rocky Mountain and Big Bend trips, or perhaps 4k miles of dual-sport usage. Mostly dirt, actually, as the bike typically gets towed to the good stuff. Anyway, ditto for the couple of guys I know have the same setup.

However swapping it back over to the stock setup is a cinch, so I keep the lever & cable in the small spares bin we take on trips - 'cause I'm a worrywart. Hell, it's all small enough to keep and forget about at the bottom of the tankbag, just in case. Maybe I'll do that when I get back in the saddle if the bike stays in the stable.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:53 PM   #14
Para504 OP
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DC950, sorry to hear about your experience. That sucks...

I can certainly understand the arguement for keeping the cables; simplicity and rundancy are a wonderful thing... However, I am spoiled with previous hydraulic clutches I've had. I really like the feel of the magura's, though the LC4 clutch pull isn't bad (compared to some).

I'm in the process of cleaning up a used bike I just bought and tweaking it for my preferences. Maybe I'll give the motion pro cables a shot before doing the hydro. Thanks all!
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:05 PM   #15
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Did y'all see this one yet?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61577
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