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Old 09-15-2006, 07:28 AM   #16
AndyB OP
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Hey guys, finally sitting my ass down to give an up date to the leaking beast...
quote by Creeper = [I think... you'd have to have fallen hard on the shifter, or have a old or high mile bike to have that shift shaft (9) seal fail].

...Well possible that shifter took a hit ? i do ride in sum pretty rocky trail, but as far as "high" mielage, only 8500m on the odo.

[Or figure out a way to pack a bunch of gritty muck into it.]

...that's quite possible too, but i haven't noticed when cleaning and i'm rather fastidious about cleaning up such areas after mucky muck rides.


well i got in and cleaned the wound very well along with sum sweeping blast of air(mostly to dry the area). and i got a new "V" seal, although no apparent damage to original could i find.
took it for a cpl. rides and shifted the hell out of it. guess what? no pearls hanging on the pinch "knuckels" of kicker (this is where i first noticed leak), and i figured ok, had sum grit get in there, which got the seal leaking.... But yeah, after a cpl. off road rides the seal (#9) is weeping again, only Not like it was (so far)...!
...Which is sumthing i am still in question of ? ...the leak can be at times nothing more than a seep or enough so, that it blows back on frame rail, OR none at all ??? could pressure in the crank cause this ??? i can't imagine that much pressure building And i've checked all crank vents for any kinda blockage...
...After sum consultation with mech. and buddy who had the cases split on his 400, ...the consensus is, that the seal won't catastrophically fail and dump alll the oil out, like i have a fear of while up sum back woods hollow out in the middle of nowhere.....
The reason of that conclusion is, that the tolerences of the 2 shafts just won't let that much oil flow....?

So for now, i'm gonna live with the seeping leak and maybe this winter i'll split the cases. Unless that is, Creeper you are successful fabbing up such a tool.....
from Creeper...[ I'm working on a tool shape that one could grind or file into a small, high quality screwdriver to turn it into a seal puller; that would be what I'd try to do if mine was leaking like a sieve... at least before I split the cases.]

Sorry for the length of this post, but just trying to explain it thouroghly.
Thanks for all the input n help guys........Ride on, AndyB
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Old 09-23-2006, 03:09 PM   #17
BlitzBike
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Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL near Alligator Alley
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I just got the so-called V-seal #17 today. I'm gonna install and see if it does anything to the catastrphic flow I have develped. I have a feeling #9 will have to change too. Any of you guys sellin' seal pullers yet?
Will report findings ASAP
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Old 09-23-2006, 10:07 PM   #18
creeper
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I've been considering modifying a small screwdriver into a seal puller for this application. I haven't made one yet, and even if I did, I'm not going to "donate" my perfectly good seal to the cause... sorry.

Anyway... here's a sketch of what would probably work... the numbers are off the top of my head, so take it all with a grain of salt.
Width and thickness may need to be adjusted... dimensions needs to be thin enough to be able to insert, rotate and lock the hook of the tool behind the metal body of the seal, but thick enough to take a pull sufficient to pop the seal without the tool itself bending much.

Having smugmug issues so I'll do it as an attachment.
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Old 09-23-2006, 11:34 PM   #19
BlitzBike
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Lets see if I'm understanding this correctly....So the diagram on the left is the blown up view of the tip of the diagram on the right? And theoretically you could pull the seal through the shaft hole? (I'm guessing)
I reckon it would be an equal trick to re-insert the new. Of course, not having torn it apart, I'm still a little clueless as to how that seal #9 is situated in there. I'm gonna try the V-seal first and cross my fingures but, 300 Lbs of human torqing the kicker and the occasional road rage
agro- shifting may have tweeked number #9 too ( I hope not ).
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Old 09-24-2006, 12:06 PM   #20
creeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzBike
Lets see if I'm understanding this correctly....So the diagram on the left is the blown up view of the tip of the diagram on the right? And theoretically you could pull the seal through the shaft hole? (I'm guessing)
I reckon it would be an equal trick to re-insert the new. Of course, not having torn it apart, I'm still a little clueless as to how that seal #9 is situated in there. I'm gonna try the V-seal first and cross my fingures but, 300 Lbs of human torqing the kicker and the occasional road rage
agro- shifting may have tweeked number #9 too ( I hope not ).
The views are the side and "front" of a tool which would slide in between the shift shaft and rubber portion of the seal. Once you've done this, the seal is ruined and why I'm not in a position to "test" my own tool design.

Once inserted, the tool would be rotated firmly to "hook" the metal, outer body portion of the seal... then the seal can be pulled out.

The seal pops out, you clean the area well, and using a piece of appropriately sized tubing, you install the new seal to flush or slightly below flush.

Easy as falling off a motorcycle.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:58 PM   #21
meat popsicle
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I cleaned mine up real good and will be watching it this weekend. Last big ride she leaked pretty good - enough to show up as dirt tears on the frame behind it. If it happens again I'll be pulling the outer seal to try and clean it up. My last chance...
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:43 PM   #22
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
I cleaned mine up real good and will be watching it this weekend. ...
So you've been watching it for 2 years & just got around to cleaning it up

I had a lil' drip there, I pulled the v-seal & cleaned it up - no more leak.

...& a note to anybody who is taking off the shifter - remember to loctite the bastard back on - they like to come loose otherwise.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 10-08-2008, 08:39 AM   #23
dentvet
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FYI:
Here's a pic of what the kickshaft looks like with the shiftshaft pulled and the seal removed. The seal that was there was actually a bit loose in its bore so theoretically oil might be able to leak around the seal. Maybe things tighten up when the shiftshaft is installed. I don't think it would be hard to pop it out of an assembled bike, I guess I should have tried that first.

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Old 10-08-2008, 11:10 AM   #24
meat popsicle
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Thank you dentvent. I should say that I've cleaned up the face of the case, where the shaft enters, and have not seen an leakage from that point, so I think the oil gets out between the kicker and the shifter... my point being it is not leaking from the point where the shaft exits the case. Pic of my bike before cleaning:



And yes Clintnz, I have cleaned this area up before So when talking about this problem I used to forget that the shaft is both the shifter and kicker, so it is a shaft within a shaft eh? Both this:



and this:



Again, mine appears to be leaking from between the shafts, with oil coming out between the kicker and shifter.

Links to related threads:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385522
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340976
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:15 AM   #25
ShortySM
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Hey guys,

It's my first post on the forum, and unfortunately it has to be in this particular thread :(

It looks like I too have the pleasure of having to deal with the "between the shafts" leak. The leak wasn't there when I bought the bike (used), but I had the freewheel go out on me (yes, the delightful ones keep on mounting, it seems :P) and I think the fact that I had to use the kickstarter for about 2 months kind'a made the leak show up.

So, anyway, right now I've changed the v-seal, but it still leaks the same. The next thing I want to do is take out the shaft seal and replace it, as the mechanic at the dealership said that it seemed to him the seal was a bit crooked and might leak. The question is, is there a recommended DIY procedure to take out the old seal and put in the new one? I understand the operation requires a bit of finesse, so just thought I'd ask around before hacking at it :)

Any advice is welcome :) Many thanks
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:15 AM   #26
Seikkailu_R
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I use (big) needle with sharp end bend 90 deg and pliers for small shaft seal.
And modified screwdriver for kickstarter shaft seal.

Just clean everything near seals before strating.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:34 AM   #27
IamTRooPeR
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I have a dripping V-seal as I have noticed.
My shifter was a bit loose, so yesterday I just checked in a minute and saw some leaking between the shifter and kick-starter.

I suddenly had the V-seal in my hand, and there was some mud in it.
I hope that's the only problem.

I will clean it properly, but know I put the V-seal temporarily back on (the engine did not run on the while) but I am not sure if it's on the right way.

How must the V-seal be placed onto the shaft ?
a little drawing or picture would be nice.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:43 PM   #28
Seikkailu_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMURF
I have a dripping V-seal as I have noticed.
My shifter was a bit loose, so yesterday I just checked in a minute and saw some leaking between the shifter and kick-starter.

I suddenly had the V-seal in my hand, and there was some mud in it.
I hope that's the only problem.

I will clean it properly, but know I put the V-seal temporarily back on (the engine did not run on the while) but I am not sure if it's on the right way.

How must the V-seal be placed onto the shaft ?
a little drawing or picture would be nice.
You probably also have leak on that small shaft seal behaind V-seal.
That V-seal is there just to protect shaft seal.

Flat side to gear lever and V-side to shaft.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:38 AM   #29
IamTRooPeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seikkailu_R
You probably also have leak on that small shaft seal behaind V-seal.
That V-seal is there just to protect shaft seal.

Flat side to gear lever and V-side to shaft.
Ok, then I put it in the right way.
I hope the leak will stop or be very minor. I'll keep an eye on it during maintenance
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:41 AM   #30
IamTRooPeR
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@ seikkailu, did you manage do change the seal behind the shifter on that small shaft,
how did you put a new one ?
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