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Old 08-28-2006, 08:25 PM   #16
KenR
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Keep in mind that the thin CF skidplates shown on the factory race bikes are just that - part of a factory bike that gets copious amounts of money, time and attention paid to it. They likely get one event out of each plate then it gets chucked for a new one.
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
With my limited understanding of materials and their inherent strengths and weaknesses
the fist part of yer first sentence pretty well covers the rest.

carbon and kevlar are fibres. in 99% of commercially available motorcycle parts the fibre present is totally irrelivent. the matrix that holds these fibres together is the part that matters. your skid plate can be carbon, kevlar, e-glass, or pixie dust and it don't matter a fuck. you hit a rock and the cocksuker will give. once the matrix breaks (usually polyester or some cheapass epoxy like "sun cure" or "west systems") the show is over. all impact strength is gone... and believe me it doesn't take much.

oems (and i assume ktm is one) usually use "pre pregs" with resins embedded in the fibre. these are not cheap and usually require kiln firing in order to cure. their strength is usually much more than the stuff you're getting for "mere mortal dollars".

if you wanna me... i'll do a composite tech/how to... for now that's it.
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Old 08-28-2006, 09:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
...

carbon and kevlar are fibres. in 99% of commercially available motorcycle parts the fibre present is totally irrelivent. the matrix that holds these fibres together is the part that matters. your skid plate can be carbon, kevlar, e-glass, or pixie dust and it don't matter a fuck. you hit a rock and the cocksuker will give. once the matrix breaks (usually polyester or some cheapass epoxy like "sun cure" or "west systems") the show is over. all impact strength is gone... and believe me it doesn't take much.

oems (and i assume ktm is one) usually use "pre pregs" with resins embedded in the fibre. these are not cheap and usually require kiln firing in order to cure. their strength is usually much more than the stuff you're getting for "mere mortal dollars".

if you wanna me... i'll do a composite tech/how to... for now that's it.
I was hoping for a blurb (thanks for biting); if you want to do a how-to I would be glad to read it. I know you just got back from the Alcan, and you are probably busy with your steed (anything more on her?), so I won't hold my breath. I am particularly interested in which are the good resins for the various methods. The rest below is just clarification

Since here we are in public, let me walk further out onto the aforementioned limb... so what I think Loaded was saying is if the resin is crap then the fiber is meaningless. I did not mention that in my post; its great having these folks around who do this for a living eh! That makes sense since the resin is part and parcel of the matrix.

And sure the big mfgs use kilo-ton presses to set their CF parts and mere mortals use vacuum bagging - are the results of the methods different enough that the cheaper stuff is worthless? The answer to that one question is worth the painstaking editing that went into this post.

meat popsicle screwed with this post 08-29-2006 at 10:59 AM Reason: clarity of reasoning
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:01 AM   #19
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If you are interested my '02 skid plate(OEM 640 Adventure) will be for sale shortly.
I am awaiting a delivery from Europe.
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
I am awaiting a delivery from Europe.
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Old 08-31-2006, 03:34 PM   #21
meat popsicle
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I may beat you to the how-to (conceptually that is)... very interesting reading around. HERE is one general overview of fibers and matricies.

I am getting the impression that, although there are good and bad examples of pretty much everything, one matrix is not necessarily better than the other - they have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, surfers may not like epoxy resin matricies in their surfboards because they are not stiff enough, so they prefer polyester. However, things are not even that simple... The article above says polyesters can be formulated to provide better mechanical strength and flexibility... the world is turning grey again.
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Old 12-25-2006, 12:26 PM   #22
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Metal Plates

Ok, I know I'm late to this thread, but I have the KTM aluminum plate on my LC4 Adventure and its crap, IMHO. Its too thin and butts up against the spin-on oil filter. If you like using your oil filter as a front bumper, then this is the plate for you.

I've also tried the plastic (PR) and carbon plates on other bikes and although, when new, they are strong they just don't slide/skid over rocks and logs as well as metal. These thumpers are rattling away anyway, so what's a bit more noise from a metal plate?

I think stainless would be a good option but I don't know of anyone making plates from it. I've always used plates by Flatland Racing and they are substantial 3/16" thick aluminum. It provides greater protection than the KTM aluminum plate. They make one for the LC4. Go here, http://flatlandracing.com/Merchant2/...uct_Code=24-08

They also use recessed allen screws/bolts as fasteners instead of a standard hex head bolt used in the KTM plate. I can see the hex head getting scraped off or worse, deformed by a rock and then you can't get it off without grinding it off. Of course, if you don't plan to take your LC4 on a rocky trail, then my comments don't apply.

Nuff said.
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Old 12-25-2006, 02:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetmike
I've always used plates by Flatland Racing and they are substantial 3/16" thick aluminum. It provides greater protection than the KTM aluminum plate. They make one for the LC4. Go here, http://flatlandracing.com/Merchant2/...uct_Code=24-08

They also use recessed allen screws/bolts as fasteners instead of a standard hex head bolt used in the KTM plate. I can see the hex head getting scraped off or worse, deformed by a rock and then you can't get it off without grinding it off. Of course, if you don't plan to take your LC4 on a rocky trail, then my comments don't apply.

Nuff said.

Mike, got any pics of the Flatland plate up close and on your KTM? Also, does it bolt into the stock mounting points, or use clamps?

Thanks.
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Old 12-25-2006, 05:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetmike
Ok, I know I'm late to this thread, but I have the KTM aluminum plate on my LC4 Adventure and its crap, IMHO. Its too thin and butts up against the spin-on oil filter. If you like using your oil filter as a front bumper, then this is the plate for you.

I've also tried the plastic (PR) and carbon plates on other bikes and although, when new, they are strong they just don't slide/skid over rocks and logs as well as metal. These thumpers are rattling away anyway, so what's a bit more noise from a metal plate?

Nuff said.
I just bought an SXC and the first ride destroyed the plastic KTM skid plate and dented the frame about 1/2" in. I did not know that I hit anything until I got home and changed the oil when I noticed the missing peices of plastic. I owned a 2002 LCE that I bought a KTM laser cut aluminum skid plate for and after about a year of use I had to replace it because it is so maleable that it began to rub against the oil filter. I had to remove it once while riding and pound it out away from the filter. I am 59 years old and do not ride like I used to. I trail ride my bikes only and suggest you buy a Moose or Utah Sports plate before you ride. I just replaced the poly plate with a Utah Sport plate.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMule
Mike, got any pics of the Flatland plate up close and on your KTM? Also, does it bolt into the stock mounting points, or use clamps?

Thanks.
Its on order. Will reply once I have it. The other plates I've bought from them used a combination of stock frame mountings and steel clamps.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetmike
Its on order. Will reply once I have it. The other plates I've bought from them used a combination of stock frame mountings and steel clamps.

Thanks. Take a whole bunch of pics, and post them up to this thread.



Ram1000 -- Can you post some pics of the Utah Sports plate and its mounting?
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:31 PM   #27
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I am currently using the KTM Aluminium bash plate... and it is marvellous!! Every oil change I take it off and hammer it back into shape and its good to go again, If I am feeling really nice I clean it up with a wire wheel.

Incidentally I started off with the Plastic KTM skid plate and I am now on my 2nd skid plate and 2nd stator cover... The plastic is good for a skid, but not for a Bash plate. I took the LC4 thru northern Ontario "boulder" country and the plastic flexed too much on the sides.

The Aluminium skid plates make it should like you have a bottom end problem with your engine (scary to begin with), and echo rocks being dinged off it... kinda cool for the first little while. I sprayed the inside with some liner to reduce the noise and it seems to help a fair bit.. still wish I had a bead roller to put an "X" in the middle of it.

Needless to say.... Nothing but Aluminium for an LC4 if your doing serious off road... plastic is good for gravel.

Baarrrrrrryyyyy screwed with this post 12-26-2006 at 08:40 PM
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarrrrrrryyyyy
Incidentally I started off with the Plastic KTM skid plate and I am now on my 2nd skid plate and 2nd stator cover... The plastic is good for a skid, but not for a Bash plate. I took the LC4 thru northern Ontario "boulder" country and the plastic flexed too much on the sides.

Thanks for the firsthand account, Barry. I need to look at mine -- I've definitely taken a few hits this fall.

Looks like I'll be ordering aluminimum. Now to decide which one...
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:21 PM   #29
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To add to the pile... plastic ain't worth nothing in terms of serious abuse...



I don't know the formulation or age of this one (at least 3rd owner, '96 RXC 400), but the first time I wandered down one of them jeep trails composed entirely of melon size boulders it decided splitting in half was the most appropriate response.

My response was to order an aluminum plate by SW-MOTECH from twistedthrottle.com. It bolted right up... although most the holes in it had knife-like edges that I rounded off with a file first. No complaints since.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red XT Dave

My response was to order an aluminum plate by SW-MOTECH from twistedthrottle.com. It bolted right up... although most the holes in it had knife-like edges that I rounded off with a file first. No complaints since.

Thanks Dave. You know what's coming next... pics of the Motech mounted?


This looks like a nice compromise between the "generic" (mounting via clamps) and KTM hardparts.
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Yes, I have a Dakar problem -- that there are 50 weeks of the year without Dakar!

They don't expect you to finish. That's why it's the Dakar. -- PPiA


Get your sweet Pyndon DakARTwork here

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