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Old 08-30-2006, 11:41 AM   #1
Zerodog OP
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Eek My 640 is making oil>>>>>>

Over the last 2 months I have been working through issues with my new to me 03 640. This is a new one. Yesterday my bike was getting pretty hot just riding around town. Hotter than ever before and it wasn't hot outside. So when I got home I started hunting.

First off it was low on coolant. I don't know where it went. It was about 2 cups of coolant to top it off.

Second thing is the oil in my site glass was too high. Actually past where I could even see the oil line. It has been about 1000 miles since my last oil change. I have watched the oil level rise slightly over the last week or 2 in the window. It happened so slow I wasn't sure if I was imagining it or not. But sure as hell I sucked 175ccs of oil out of the engine to get it back down to the high mark. The oil was opaque but not black or milky looking and it didn't smell gassy. But I guess it could still be gas. If it was water there would be mayo looking funk on my oil filler cap and the oil would look milky right? Or does full sythetic oil emulsify water really well and suspend it in the oil? It did take more coolant to fill the radiator than what I sucked out of the engine to get it back to the correct level.

Is it possible that I filled the oil wrong in the first place? Should the bike be hot or cold when filling to the high mark on the glass? I did it when cold after I bled the tube.

So the question is where did this oil come from/ or what got in the oil to increase it's level?

I am going to install a coolant catch bottle to see if that fixes my disappearing coolant problem.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:51 AM   #2
MartinDKtm
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Maybe a water pump rebuilt job will be needed....It sound like it.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:50 PM   #3
creeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodog
Over the last 2 months I have been working through issues with my new to me 03 640. This is a new one. Yesterday my bike was getting pretty hot just riding around town. Hotter than ever before and it wasn't hot outside. So when I got home I started hunting.

First off it was low on coolant. I don't know where it went. It was about 2 cups of coolant to top it off.

Second thing is the oil in my site glass was too high. Actually past where I could even see the oil line. It has been about 1000 miles since my last oil change. I have watched the oil level rise slightly over the last week or 2 in the window. It happened so slow I wasn't sure if I was imagining it or not. But sure as hell I sucked 175ccs of oil out of the engine to get it back down to the high mark. The oil was opaque but not black or milky looking and it didn't smell gassy. But I guess it could still be gas. If it was water there would be mayo looking funk on my oil filler cap and the oil would look milky right? Or does full sythetic oil emulsify water really well and suspend it in the oil? It did take more coolant to fill the radiator than what I sucked out of the engine to get it back to the correct level.

Is it possible that I filled the oil wrong in the first place? Should the bike be hot or cold when filling to the high mark on the glass? I did it when cold after I bled the tube.

So the question is where did this oil come from/ or what got in the oil to increase it's level?

I am going to install a coolant catch bottle to see if that fixes my disappearing coolant problem.
Don't know what kind of miles are on your bike Rob, but it seems that water pump seals like to get "loose" at some point. Some have gone 20-30K before this happens, others can't make it to 15K. Not enough anecdotal info to determine the cause or causes.
I may arbitrarily replace mine this winter... just so I don't get any surprises next summer in the middle of a ride.

LC4 Pilot wrote an excellent guide on replacing the seals here.

Best 'O luck with the repair,
C
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:55 PM   #4
Rad
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Yup, as they say, it must be blown H2O pump seals. Mine was also make'n oil. It was about $75 bucks for new seals or $150 for a new pump, I bought a new pump and it fixed her right up.
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:42 PM   #5
Zerodog OP
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Damn.........I should have bought a new bike....... I have had to do quite a few things to my 9 out of 10 bike, so far this one tops it as far a pain in the ass. As I recall my oil was about the same color the first time I changed it. And my coolant was a little low after my 1000 mile trip back. So I probably bought it with this issue.....along with a few others that have sucked as well.

Does the new pump come with everything so you can just slap that puppy in? I didn't want to have to get into the cover but oh well. That is the way it goes.
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodog
Damn.........I should have bought a new bike....... I have had to do quite a few things to my 9 out of 10 bike, so far this one tops it as far a pain in the ass. As I recall my oil was about the same color the first time I changed it. And my coolant was a little low after my 1000 mile trip back. So I probably bought it with this issue.....along with a few others that have sucked as well.

Does the new pump come with everything so you can just slap that puppy in? I didn't want to have to get into the cover but oh well. That is the way it goes.
It's a complete assembly... everything in #1.



Pretty much use LC4 Pilot's guide and my cover re-seal guide as reference material... especially if you don't have a motor manual, and you should be good to go.

C
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:54 PM   #7
Zerodog OP
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I have read both. Thanks for the help and the great guides for this stuff guys.

I guess it is time to buy some parts and some good beer.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodog
I have read both. Thanks for the help and the great guides for this stuff guys.

I guess it is time to buy some parts and some good beer.
Have fun with it....

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Old 08-31-2006, 11:48 PM   #9
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Tonight I tore into the orange beast and found a leaking water pump. The hardest part was finding TDC. I haven't figured out a way to strap my dial indicator on very well so it took a few trys. I know you can do it with a straw but I am a machinist. I want to know within .001". I can't help it! I also found that the valve cover was starting to leak on the left front side over the exhaust port. Just as Creeper had said is the problem zone.

First when I pulled the breather hose I noticed Mayo up in the frame tube. That is what I was expecting to see on my oil filler cap. Then when I got the sucker out there was coolant on the inside of the pump where there should only be oil. The bearings feel pretty nasty too.

The good news is there was hardly any sealant at all on the valve cover. It is almost totally clean. 10 min with a paper towel and brake cleaner will have it spotless. No scraping will be needed at all. My parts should be in on Tuesday. It sucks because I had to pay for overnight and I won't get it until tuesday because of the holiday. My dealer also didn't get it ordered today because their GM that wasn't there. I guess he has to approve the orders before they go out or some crap like that.
So now I wait. I hope everything comes together next week. I have a 3 day fishing/ camping/ backcountry ride planned for next weekend. To top it all off the day I discovered the coolant/ oil thing I found my rear shock just started leaking oil.

So with the bike down I am sending my shock off to Javier at TrailTrick to rebuild and hotrod it for me. He said he will be able to do it in a day and get it sent out to me overnight. Overnight shipping sucks but that is the way it is this time. It is either bite the bullet or no fish for me! The plan is to get the waterpump in tuesday night so the sealant can dry until thursday. Friday I can test it. Then Saturday we ride and the fish better watch out.

Thanks again for the great write ups on this procedure. It would have been a pain without them.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:35 AM   #10
Duke777
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patience - wow

I must say you have the patience of job. I am on my first KTM - likely my last - it is just one thing after another. Now I am leaking oil from any number of places. I drive an Acura and not a 1970 MG for a reason, guess i should gotten the acura motorcycle - xr650. But I really love this bike - such a fine line b/w love and hate. Good luck
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke777
I must say you have the patience of job. I am on my first KTM - likely my last - it is just one thing after another. Now I am leaking oil from any number of places. I drive an Acura and not a 1970 MG for a reason, guess i should gotten the acura motorcycle - xr650. But I really love this bike - such a fine line b/w love and hate. Good luck
Hey Man! have you ever been out on a ride with others on various 'breeds'.... and at the first... second and later stops noticed that the klr/klx/xr/etc riders just park up, walk away from their bike and do whatever!....

'cept the ktm riders do same, park up, walk away... and stop!... look back... and smile a special knowing smile.



la mia famiglia...
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:08 AM   #12
davorallyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braaap!
Hey Man! have you ever been out on a ride with others on various 'breeds'.... and at the first... second and later stops noticed that the klr/klx/xr/etc riders just park up, walk away from their bike and do whatever!....

'cept the ktm riders do same, park up, walk away... and stop!... look back... and smile a special knowing smile.



la mia famiglia...
Like... light up a malbrogh and stare at the horizon.

Met this bloke Wayne Kerr now he had a special smile
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:18 AM   #13
todd83-900t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodog
I haven't figured out a way to strap my dial indicator on very well so it took a few trys. I know you can do it with a straw but I am a machinist. I want to know within .001". I can't help it!
I'm with you on the whole +- 0.001" If you ever figure it out please post a picture.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:44 AM   #14
gunnerbuck
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For locating and holding the engine at TDC there is a locating bolt on the shifter side on the front of the engine beside the spin on filter. Remove this 8mm bolt, shine a flashlight in and when the engine is at TDC with the valves slack you will see a recess cutout in the crankshaft. You can use KTM part #580 30 080 000 to screw in this hole and engage the cutout to in effect lock the crankshaft at TDC while you work on the engine. I made my own locating screw by using a 8mm stud, grind a point on one end and a screw driver slot on the other so you can turn it in. I prefer this unit to the KTM unit as it clears the oil filter better.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:50 AM   #15
Zerodog OP
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KTMs are really good bikes. I just bought one in not so good condition. My 300 KTM has been flawless. And I hammer it. The shock is normal stuff. I am guessing it has never ever had anything done to it and the bike has 16,000 miles on it. And from what creeper says the water pump is par for the course too. I haven't lost faith in the bike yet. I just bought one that needed more love than I was wanting to give. The bike was supposed to be in primo shape. I guess there are different meanings of primo. Hopefully after I get these things sorted out it will be all good.
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