Help me with my braking techniques

[SMD]

So, I've been riding for many years and have had very few close calls. Today I had two of the infamous "left turners" try to kill me. Thankfully, I was able to brake and steer around both of them without incident but I was NOT impressed with my braking technique. Specifically, on both occasions I LOCKED the fooken rear tire!
Now a little background... I REGULARLY practice panic stops and steering around things. I've been beating in my head "FRONT BRAKE ! FRONT BRAKE! FRONT BRAKE!" since I've been street riding but still, in a panic situation my brain continues to tell my right foot to "press harder" even though I have tried to train myself NOT to do this.

What is one to do in this situation? What do you guys/gals do to prepare for the unexpected?

alas....I suppose I should fix the ABS on my RT and then I guess I won't need to beat myself up as much.

Thanks for your input.
SMD

[Nocturnal]

I'm working on this myself. So I'm not sure if I can be any help, but.....

1: I'm trying to get in the habit of using the front brake only. Evan on the normal stops. I'm thinking that in time this will rewire me to Act and use the front before I React and use the rear.
2: I've started talking my self through turns / high danger situations. Intersections that type of thing. I like to play the what if game.
What if... A deer is just around the corner?
What if... That car turns in front of me?

Then run through my options.
Front brake(easy)...... weight shift..... front brake harder until max braking is reached or stopped.

For me the hard thing is doing this all the time. When I relax I tend to revert to my old habits.

And, Welcome to the Asylum!

[ShaftEd]

You may want to look at more than just adjusting your brain. You could adjust the rear brake pedal so that it takes more travel to come into play. Also look for rear pads that aren't so grippy. Dunloppads come to mind. They suck, since they don't bite as hard as OEM pads. Not good for the front, but work great for the rear.

[Nocturnal]

Originally Posted by ShaftEd

You may want to look at more than just adjusting your brain. You could adjust the rear brake pedal so that it takes more travel to come into play. Also look for rear pads that aren't so grippy. Dunloppads come to mind. They suck, since they don't bite as hard as OEM pads. Not good for the front, but work great for the rear.

Interesting idea's, but in a panick situation couldn't you still stomp on the rear hard enough to lock it?

[habanero]

Originally Posted by Nocturnal

Interesting idea's, but in a panick situation couldn't you still stomp on the rear hard enough to lock it?

No. The rear wheel acts as a gyro which keeps you you running straight, once you stop that gyro effect many bad things can happen. Yes, you want to stop and avoid the other vehicle, but you also want to maintain control. In a panic stop, the vast majority of the bike's weight is tranferred to the front wheel, therefore the stopping power is in the front wheel, very little stopping power remains with the rear brake, some yes, but you better have a keen touch to use it. Personally, I don't use the rear brake except around town for nice level stops, when I am riding hard and in panic situations it's all front brake.

Prepare for the unexpected by keeping a finger or two on the front brake, and learn to apply the front brake progressively...a little pressure to transfer some weight forward before the full pressure of a panic stop...and as much as possible remove the panic from panic stops, learn and practice the technique so that muscle memory takes over and you just do it properly.

[OuttaMyWay]

You can ride with your toes on the pegs, so it takes a conscious thought to even touch the rear brake.

[Nocturnal]

Originally Posted by habanero

No. The rear wheel acts as a gyro which keeps you you running straight, once you stop that gyro effect many bad things can happen. Yes, you want to stop and avoid the other vehicle, but you also want to maintain control. In a panic stop, the vast majority of the bike's weight is tranferred to the front wheel, therefore the stopping power is in the front wheel, very little stopping power remains with the rear brake, some yes, but you better have a keen touch to use it. Personally, I don't use the rear brake except around town for nice level stops, when I am riding hard and in panic situations it's all front brake.

Prepare for the unexpected by keeping a finger or two on the front brake, and learn to apply the front brake progressively...a little pressure to transfer some weight forward before the full pressure of a panic stop...and as much as possible remove the panic from panic stops, learn and practice the technique so that muscle memory takes over and you just do it properly.

Good info!
I was mainly talking about ShftEd's ideas of adusting the travel on the rear brake and using brake pads that are not so grippy.

I've been trying to use the front only on any usual stops but I have noticed that if I use the rear as well that I stop/slow much quicker. I'm sure that in a panic stop much more weight is shifted to the front and reduces the effectiveness of the rear.
Anyway thanks for the info, food for thought.

[ShaftEd]

Originally Posted by Nocturnal

Interesting idea's, but in a panick situation couldn't you still stomp on the rear hard enough to lock it?

Sure, and that's the way I want it. The brake should still be strong enough to lockup, but just that it would take more effort to do so. It's hard to modulate the rear brake using your foot as opposed to fingers on the front brake. Especially, if you have a thick soled boot on, like an MX boot.

[Rad]

It is just called practice. Could be as many as a million reps before what ya do is automatic. Go out and practice do'n it right, and keep practice'n till it is automatic.

But first; make sure yur first consideration/response is, swerve; then if that is not the proper option ya brake. Most people do it the other way around. I've heard the stat thrown around that as much as 80% of the time it is better to swerve than to brake for collision avoidance.

Remember; there are no stupid questions, just stupid people…..Mmmm, I’m not sure that came out right

[Bollocks]

I’ve always thought of braking as 70% front brake 30% rear. With this technique you can visualize how much presser you need to stop when you practice braking.
Edit: im not sure visualize is the right word. Its more a feel.

[Bumblebee-TGL]

First thing I do is maneuver if possible.
When the escape holes are plugged, I grab a handful of front brake and load it up and try to get my CG moved back. Then I get on the back brake and load it up to just short of sliding. I keep the front wheel way up high on the friction curve for the baseline deceleration force and use the rear brake to reduce the stopping distance further. Once deceleration is set, I modulate pressure on both brakes to keep the tires as far up on the friction curve as I can get it without risking dumping myself.


One idea if you're getting on the rear brake too much is when you're riding around without hostiles actively trying to kill you as much, deliberately stay off the rear brake completely. That should teach your instincts that you have to use the front brake then once you can think again, use the rear brake as a suppliment to the front brake, not as a primary deceleration control.

[SMD]

Great info ! Thanks all.

After going over this in my mind, I'm pretty sure I braked hard with both brakes, giving a little too much on the rear and then swerved around the front of the cage. I only had a microsecond to react as he/she came flying out of a gas station without stopping or obviously looking and I was maybe 50 feet away doing about 35mph. They saw me in the nick of time and stopped, giving me a sliver of room to get around the front. Had they have not seen me and kept going, I would not have swerved around the front and instead chosen to t-bone the drivers door. Maybe this is right or maybe wrong but hey..I could have tried my Superman flying skills.

All in all I think my highly reflective gear and my headlight modulator contributed to them seeing me, although a little late.

[Reprobate]

SMD,

Try to use your front brake for stopping All The Time and minimize the rear brake for slow speed manoeuvring/offroad. That way, you'll get used to using the front brake in panic situations.

[BikePilot]

Track time develops good habits in a hurry I was lucky to spend years riding around tracks (mostly dirt) before I was old enough for a street license. By that time, propery braking, counter steering etc was second nature.

[B.Curvin]

Originally Posted by ShaftEd

You may want to look at more than just adjusting your brain. You could adjust the rear brake pedal so that it takes more travel to come into play. Also look for rear pads that aren't so grippy. Dunloppads come to mind. They suck, since they don't bite as hard as OEM pads. Not good for the front, but work great for the rear.

Just for clarification, I race with nothing but Dunlopad on my SV.

I've never tried their street pad, but with the HH racing pad, I can do

two finger stoppies from 100+ mph (unintentionally), I usually race only

using one finger. Plus I've never had brake fade.

So don't get HH for the rear (they prolly don't make them for the rear).