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Old 02-06-2014, 11:22 PM   #1
KRAK1369 OP
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Pissed What not to buy, Battery Tender batteries.

I want to get the word out. I got burned, but you don't have to. I made the mistake of over paying for a broken promise. I'm stuck with a battery that won't even turn the bike over reliably. This might be a bit of venting, but it is also a warning for you guys. I have a more detailed write up in the blog if you want to check it out.

http://krakgs.wordpress.com/2014/02/...thium-battery/
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:06 AM   #2
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So??? Did you use the "special charger"???

From your blog:

{Next I try to actually install my new battery, I hook everything up, turn the key and…………nothing. So I re-read the instructions and find (in very small type, in a very random location) that the battery must be charged prior to first use and that a special type of charger is required. Ok, by now my frustration level is pretty high but I go ahead and put the battery on a charger. Fast forward to when the battery is finally charged. I reinstall the battery, turn the key and………….next to nothing. I don’t how they calculate cold cranking amps at Battery Tender, but it didn’t even work as well as my old battery with a bad cell. }
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:50 AM   #3
L.B.S.
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Every Lithium battery I've ever heard of for the past what, decade or so, at least? has usually specified needing to be charged prior to use.

I also have always heard that Lithium (motor vehicle) batteries usually, if not always, specify a "special" charger. Whether this is in fact neccessary, I do not know, but it's what I have always heard.

Aren't all battery "warranties" based on the sliding scale of percentage/year like that? Again, that's something that has always been my fully understood take on the matter.

Is a Manufacturer's cautioning against possible impaired product capabilities below 14F *really* a super offended part of your complaint against them?

This is also something I thought was fairly widespread public knowledge, that Lithium batteries aren't a super Arctic-conditions choice for a starter battery.

Last but not least, I have always thought a return was unfortunately a Customer pays return shipping burden one had to bear, unless otherwise (pretty rarely, and awesome when it is, but...) stated.

Not bagging on you mate, just my honest response. I feel for you that you had a poor experience, I think everybody knows the feeling when something goes not to plan and the Grrrrr sets in
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:10 AM   #4
Davidc83
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battery

Most of your complaints are common knowledge with motorcycle batteries. Most people I know who have shipments which require a signature, have the items delivered to the place of employment-again, a common happen-stance.
Numerous motorcycle batteries (6 bikes in the past 6 years) I have purchased required a FULL charge before using-and don't use the quick charge option on the battery charger-no matter if purchased from a dealer or online and the directions usually state to allow the batteries to charge for a FULL 24 hours before using-I bet your directions stated the same thing-did you?
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:17 AM   #5
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"...So I re-read the instructions and find (in very small type, in a very random location) that the battery must be charged prior to first use and that a special type of charger is required...."

Flaimng and bad mouthing a supplier of a specific product (that had you done your homework is a relatively new technology that has its limits) when not following or fully reading the instructions and conditions of sale, which are pretty standard, reflects more on you than them.

Re-think your public position.

(The old story of what attracts, honey or vinegar?)
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:20 PM   #6
JustinP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.B.S. View Post
Every Lithium battery I've ever heard of for the past what, decade or so, at least? has usually specified needing to be charged prior to use.

I also have always heard that Lithium (motor vehicle) batteries usually, if not always, specify a "special" charger. Whether this is in fact neccessary, I do not know, but it's what I have always heard.

Aren't all battery "warranties" based on the sliding scale of percentage/year like that? Again, that's something that has always been my fully understood take on the matter.

Is a Manufacturer's cautioning against possible impaired product capabilities below 14F *really* a super offended part of your complaint against them?

This is also something I thought was fairly widespread public knowledge, that Lithium batteries aren't a super Arctic-conditions choice for a starter battery.

Last but not least, I have always thought a return was unfortunately a Customer pays return shipping burden one had to bear, unless otherwise (pretty rarely, and awesome when it is, but...) stated.

Not bagging on you mate, just my honest response. I feel for you that you had a poor experience, I think everybody knows the feeling when something goes not to plan and the Grrrrr sets in
Pretty much nailed it.

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Old 02-07-2014, 05:08 PM   #7
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I'd consider taking down your blog post. You come off as complete fool. Not to put too fine a point on it.


I'm astounded that BT offered to take the battery back after you abused it. That shows excellent CS on their part.


If you want a drop in, fully charged battery, try an Odyssey. Not as sexy as a Lithium, but it would actually start your bike.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:54 PM   #8
KRAK1369 OP
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So like I said, it is a bit of rant, but also a warning. Thank you for reading it ( not being sarcastic). I'm leaving the post up as it is a warning, one I wish I had before buying the battery, but more importantly before doing business with Battery Tender (Deltran).
I was attempting to keep the blog post short. A goal I was only marginally successful at. So perhaps not all the details to support my argument were presented. But here are my two main complaints,
1. The item was not portrayed with full (easy to find) disclosure. To me this is as close to false advertising as it can come without crossing the line.
2. The customer service after the first issue was not helpful in anyway, and will pretty much give anyone the run around.

To go point to point:
Shipping, only after having nice discussions with customer service I found out that only if I ordered the battery over the phone, and requested to not require a signature. This is not found anywhere on the website.

Limits to the battery, IE do not use in temperatures below 14. All batteries loose performance in lower temperatures. But finding the warning for this battery is chore. I only found it while reading the manual before installing it.

Charging, many Lithium batteries come fully charged. Case in point, http://www.bikebandit.com/ballistic-...um-ion-battery
After reading the manual, I did not see any reference or warming that the battery required additional charge. Only after the first failed attempt to start the bike did I find the statement. It is not as easy to find as you might think. 240 cca at 70% power is still at the upper limits of the battery it was replacing.

Charger, I misstated that a special charger was required, I should have said recommended. I did use an approved charger. I'll update the post to reflect that.

Warranty, most batteries only come with 1 year of coverage. So a 3 year warranty looks pretty attractive. Again it is the fine print and the gotcha's that anger me. I know all warranties have the fine print, but this one has plenty of ways for the company to get out of paying, the little they will pay.

So why did I buy this battery in the first place? Technology continues to advance, batteries included. Hybrid cars, trains, and mine trucks all take advantage newer battery technology. Cell phones, RC toys, drones, and more owe their latest success in part to lithium battery advances. It was pitched and backed by a group of reviewers of whom I trust. I did not find and bad reviews for this new product. So I was willing to pay a little more for the chance to try it. Am I disappointed that it didn't work, Yes. But I am more disappointed in how I as a customer was treated after the purchase.

My post does nothing more than to warn people of what they may encounter when dealing the company. If that does not sway you from doing business with them, it does not bother me. If it prevents 1 person from having to experience what I did, it is worth having on the net.

Also did you read the part where BikeBandit is having a sale on batteries right now. Also they do not require a signature for shipment, and as final bonus, they have decent customer support. Luckily I have not had many reasons to interact with them because their site works, and so do the products I receive from it.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:38 AM   #9
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When I needed a battery for my R1150 my mechanic suggested a deep cycle battery (Odyssy) for my bike due to my riding- going to Ak from CA, he said that it will easy jump or to charge if I run it down despite that I was trying to save weight and wanting to go with a lithium ion type and it would require a special charger which is not a convenience for a long haul.

I took his advice- a wise one.

Now! for my sport bike that i ride around the civilized world, I use a lithium ion.
The inconvenient part is, it needs a higher amp charger in case I run it down, so I unplug- disconnect the battery every time I finish my ride. I have not had any problems with it by doing this and it has been over 2 yrs.

I always ask when I get new battery if it needs to be charged, saves me a lot of grief.

achtung3 screwed with this post 02-08-2014 at 07:47 AM
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:26 AM   #10
max384
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I'm not sure why everyone is coming down on the OP so hard. I think he brought up some valid complaints about this battery. It didn't function as advertised, and he's stuck with the shipping bill? Basically, hey it didn't work the way it was supposed to, so pay more and we'll make it right? That's not good customer service in my book.

This being said, I think the OP should have done more research before buying the battery... But I think he has a valid complaint.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:00 PM   #11
markgsnw
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here's why I'm down on the OP:

1) From his blog: " Oh- and in case I have not warned you off enough, here are a few more things that I learned after reading the insert in the packaging (these things were NOT mentioned on the website): it should not be used below 14 degrees"


From the Battery Tender web site: "Operating Temp: 14°F - 140°F"



2) from the blog: "Warranty, not so much. Certainly not the 3 year coverage they claim. Which is better than most, until you read the fine print. There is plenty of fine print in this fine piece of literature. It is really a one year warranty, the second year is 50% coverage and the third is 35% coverage. It doesn’t include shipping costs, and there are plenty of catches to void it."


From the Battery Tender web site: "1) 0-12 months: Replace free of charge with original receipt or product registration on our website; www.batterytender.com/productregistration.
2) 13-24 months: 50% off MSRP with original receipt or registered on website.
3) 25-36 months: 35% off MSRP with original receipt or registered on website.




Breaking news: this is a standard pro-rated battery warranty.


Is there actually something wrong with the battery? Is it actually defective? If so, then ship it back, or take it to someplace that sells the things. Which suggests: why not buy a battery locally, and save all those shipping charges?

Shipping: outside of LL Bean, no one pays shipping both ways.


Signature required: would you be happier if they left a $200 battery on your porch and it got stolen, leaving you out the money?


My take: OP did not perform basic research on a new to him technology, and is unhappy with the details of the transaction and that the battery wasn't charged when he received it. Which means Deltran should burn their factory down with everyone locked inside.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:24 PM   #12
jeffjones
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sterotypical bmw rider: pays double for something and expects it to charge itself and when there is a problem the www is blasted before the manufacture has a chance to get the product back and evaluate if it was a real defective battery or just another dippy that can't charge it for shit first off.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:35 PM   #13
KRAK1369 OP
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Markgsnw is right. I should have done more research. I presumed that the research I had done was adequate. I have heard good reviews about lithium batteries from speaking with other riders, just not this product in particular since it was new. When I placed the purchase in November, there was little to go by, plus or minus in terms of reviews on the product. That is why the blog is up. So some one else can get feed back on the experience.

By the time I finished interacting with the customer support, sending it back to see if it was defective, on my dime, was not an option I was interested in anymore. I wanted my money back, and they could have their battery. That would have been the end of it. But that's not what happened. I have a battery, they have the money. My only realistic option is to spread the word.

Lesson learned, I need to articulate my arguments better. Hard to do when, even thinking about the interactions still makes me angry, even a month later. I don't have the free time to be angry about a battery. Which is why still decided to put up the post, to put it behind me. So not finding the information about the temperature easily on the site at the time I was looking is a major deal? No, but it is a straw on the camels back.

Shipping both ways, Dell, Amazon, and others that do online stores have in the past have paid for the shipping when there is a problem. And by past I do not mean years ago. I mean a month ago. Just recently, I had an issue with a Dell laptop. The touch screen did not work on it, right out the box. After a day and half working with Tech support, I was issued a shipping label. I sent it back, and received a full refund, shipping costs included.

I took that refund and bought another Dell. Why? Because they stand behind their product. They offer decent support. Which was nice since I still had the bad taste in my mouth. I don't normally have issues that require support. But when I do, future business goes to the company that has decent support.

When I am shopping for item I expect to have for long term, I am OK with spending more for a quality item. But in return, I expect the item to be of a high quality, and be supported properly. I prefer to not do all my shopping at the dollar store.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:02 PM   #14
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Hey Krak,


I keep re-reading this and thinking that amidst the swirling clouds of rant that there is some real info here. Let's see if I can summarize the issues:


1) Deltran only ships with signature only, which could be a PITA for some people. Should be disclosed prior to purchase. There may be shipping options if you phone them?


2) Battery is shipped discharged, to at least, yours was. If that's the expected case, again, should be disclosed prior to purchase.


3) Deltran says on their web site that almost any charger will charge the battery. I've researched Lithium batteries some (like you, I'm interested in new technologies), and I've always read that Lithium batteries require very specific chargers. So either Deltran is incorrect in saying that any almost any charger will work, or, like the Marx Brothers routine in Day At The Races, there's always going to be one more thing that you have to buy to make it work.


4) It is not clear from what you are saying if the battery is actually considered defective by Deltran. In any case, you need to get the battery back to them to recover your investment in time and money, I'm sure you could get that back to them for under $10 via USPS Priority Mail. So $10 and a trip to the PO would either get you another battery or your money back.


Suggestions going forward:

* new technologies can be a real PITA. If the PITA is greater than, say, your desire to have a running motorcycle, then stick with the tried and true.

* The GS is a big heavy bike (I had an 1150 GS for ten years and 100k miles). Trying to save a couple of pounds is futile.

* Speaking of tried and true, may I highly recommend Odyssey batteries. The are shipped sealed and fully charged, and rarely if ever need to be kept on a charger. They are rugged and last a very long time. Everything you want in a battery.

* Buy local. Nothing sucks like getting burned on an internet transaction and having to waste time and money shipping things back and forth. It may cost a little more locally, and it may actually save you money. And you're supporting people who live in your community. I bought my last battery at Batteries Plus, drove over there and had it in my hot little hands in less than an hour. Could easily have whipped out a voltmeter and checked the battery before I walked out the door (or asked them to do it).


* If you absolutely positively have to buy internet, stick with the people that we've had experience with. Aerostich, for example, does not have the best prices, and some of what they sell isn't all that great, but they do stand 100% behind what they sell. I even got a letter from Andy Goldfine one time.


* And last, Deltran: send the battery back to them. If they will give you your money back, great. If they send you another battery, well, you've got a working battery. You can always Craigslist it as a new battery and get something else that doesn't piss you off every thine you think about it. I've been there with products and vendors, plenty. We're here to enjoy ourselves, so if something isn't working for you, get rid of it.



And let us know how it turns out.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:33 PM   #15
WindSailor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtung3 View Post
When I needed a battery for my R1150 my mechanic suggested a deep cycle battery (Odyssy) for my bike due to my riding- going to Ak from CA, he said that it will easy jump or to charge if I run it down despite that I was trying to save weight and wanting to go with a lithium ion type and it would require a special charger which is not a convenience for a long haul.

I took his advice- a wise one.

Now! for my sport bike that i ride around the civilized world, I use a lithium ion.
The inconvenient part is, it needs a higher amp charger in case I run it down, so I unplug- disconnect the battery every time I finish my ride. I have not had any problems with it by doing this and it has been over 2 yrs.

I always ask when I get new battery if it needs to be charged, saves me a lot of grief.
Yep.

My battery being 2+ years old (2011 GSA) was starting to grunt pretty regularly, so I headed for a cycle shop inland some 50+ miles away. That way I could test to see if it was the battery or the charger I was using to keep the battery charged that was failing.

When I got to the shop and tried starting it again - it turned over once - came tight or stalled on the compression stroke - and then turned the engine over. It did start, but it was time to change the battery.

After a discussion with the 'local' guys (Premiermotogear); they advised me to go with an AGM over the Lithium. They literally used the same ideology and applied it to their bikes - adventure bike (AGM) - street bike (Lithium). I bought a Deka battery (which I'm ok with) - they didn't have the Odyssey in stock. Just to note, when the guys were taking out the old battery - we found out the dealer installed the wrong battery in my bike - a size smaller than the stock model. That didn't help. Mike also told me that the initial condition of the battery (charged state) when it is installed has a direct indication on how long that particular battery will last. Their battery vendor comes by monthly to their shop to collect unsold batteries. That way the batteries they have in stock are fresh. Good info... and that's one reason why I frequent that shop.

I believe some Lithium batteries have balanced cells and don't need a special charger could be wrong on that one. Shorai has a dedicated charger. Price is all over the range for Lithium batteries - Shorai - Antigravity - Braille - and others. If your going to look at Braille (Lithium) - you'd better have deep pockets.

My wife's uncle has Shorai batteries in most of his toys and loves the battery. But he also doesn't ride in freezing weather.

Check this link out: What kind of battery for adventuring, is Lithium up to the challenge?

See if that helps.

WindSailor screwed with this post 02-09-2014 at 04:42 PM
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