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Old 09-18-2006, 11:44 AM   #16
dirty_sanchez
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Loctite Guru Checking In...

NYC GS- I'm Adventure Rider's resident Loctite Factory Rep working out of south Louisiana.

243 is an oil tolerant medium strength blue threadlocker. When I say "Oil Tolerant" I'm not talking about the material's ability to stand up to oily environments when inservice. Any cured threadlocker does this, so there's still nothing special about it. When Loctite says 243 is "Oil Tolerant" we are referring to the materials ability to work and cure properly on "As Received" threaded fasteners that are already lightly oiled to prevent rust. 243 isn't as picky when used on slightly oily threaded fasteners as 242, 248, or 2440.

I don't know about everyone else, but I won't paint car with oily handprints on it because surface prep is king. Most any of us would remove all surface contaminates before we paint a car or reinstall a bolt if we're working in our shop.

In short, always clean and degrease fasteners before reassy.-especially if we're using a threadlocker. Use 242, 243, 248 (the Stick), or 2440 (Primerless). They'll all do the job-each with a different twist.

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Old 09-18-2006, 11:52 AM   #17
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Sweet

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
NYC GS- I'm Adventure Rider's resident Loctite Factory Rep working out of south Louisiana.

243 is an oil tolerant medium strength blue threadlocker. When I say "Oil Tolerant" I'm not talking about the material's ability to stand up to oily environments when inservice. Any cured threadlocker does this, so there's still nothing special about it. When Loctite says 243 is "Oil Tolerant" we are referring to the materials ability to work and cure properly on "As Received" threaded fasteners that are already lightly oiled to prevent rust. 243 isn't as picky when used on slightly oily threaded fasteners as 242, 248, or 2440.

I don't know about everyone else, but I won't paint car with oily handprints on it because surface prep is king. Most any of us would remove all surface contaminates before we paint a car or reinstall a bolt if we're working in our shop.

In short, always clean and degrease fasteners before reassy.-especially if we're using a threadlocker. Use 242, 243, 248 (the Stick), or 2440 (Primerless). They'll all do the job-each with a different twist.

Dirty

Sweet. That is excellent information and I really appreciate it.

I can feel a little better about the 242 now!

THANKS!

-- Jason
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Old 09-18-2006, 12:47 PM   #18
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMule
Aw, man. This just came up last week, but I can't remember which thread it was in.

FOUND IT. Check this thread, starting specifically with post #36.
Good job PackMule,

Here is another.
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Old 09-18-2006, 12:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc_gs
So, basically, flatten the washer out, remove the nut and washer then replace them after putting the new sprocket on, yeah? Folding down a different side of the washer?

I always get a bit nervous working with engine related stuff on my bike...so I want to make sure I do this as it should be done.

Thanks...

-- Jason
Yep, you don't want to re use the same portion of the lock washer since it has been stressed from use. By rotating the lock washer you use a different, unused portion of the lock washer.

Techie.
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Old 09-18-2006, 02:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Good job PackMule,

Here is another.

Just tryin' to give somethin' back, brutha.



From the discussion last week, I had errantly assumed that the two styles of bolt/washer were interchangable. Looking at the schematic again, though, it's clear that it's dependant on whether ones countershaft is threaded internally (Version 1) or externally (Version 2, with the tabbed washer).

I'll be swapping for a 15T as soon as I put a parts order in, so I suppose I ought to check which style I have and add the requisite bits to the tally, eh?


Perhaps you could add a note about this to the chain/sprockets index article?
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Old 07-12-2008, 05:20 PM   #21
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Wink Loctite

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc_gs
I'm replacing the cs sprocket on my 640 Adventure tonight and I have one very simple question I need answered...

The manual calls for Loctite 243 to be used, however, I was unable to find 243. I found 242 and I also have some 245, but no 243.

Will the 242 be good enough?

Forgive my Loctite ignorance...I am not totally sure what the difference between the 242 and 243 is. Seems the 243 is more 'oil resistant' ??

I did the requisite searching and found a few people with similar questions, however, they were for shocks and such, nothing near the CS. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

-- Jason
I'm a licensed mechanic, use a good slather of Blue medium strenght and fold the lock coller tight and your good to go!
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:33 PM   #22
KTMax m AL
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Thumb Stock gearing

nyc gs

You may find in time that you switch back to the stock 16 gearing.

I changed mine to a 15 tooth for about a year and then went back to the 16 tooth. The 16 works much better if there is any open road riding and I have done some tight off road with this 640 torque monster and it's not much of a problem.

JMHO
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMax m AL
nyc gs

You may find in time that you switch back to the stock 16 gearing.

I changed mine to a 15 tooth for about a year and then went back to the 16 tooth. The 16 works much better if there is any open road riding and I have done some tight off road with this 640 torque monster and it's not much of a problem.

JMHO
Well since this thread was started almost 2 years ago I wonder if he even still has the bike.

I am kind of thinking of adding 2 teeth on the back and keeping the 16 tooth up front. Kind of splitting the difference and see how that feels. Any thing other than tight trails, which I don't do much of with this bike, I kind of like the stock gearing also.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:05 PM   #24
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OK, it's been a year since this has been on the first page, it's spring, and I'm doin' some annual updates the ol' 2000 LC4E. One thing I'm trying to do is get the gearing right. My conclusion is that it can't be done with the ratio width on these five speeds. I ran the stock 16:42 for one year and liked it generally for distance travel so long as I kept speed at 75 mph or below for long periods. Much above that and my ass got a good vibrating and starts to feel funny (in a bad way) after a while. However, when I get on single track and the tight stuff or climbing hills I get stuck between a too low first and a too high second.

I changed to 16:45 and all is good off road but it dropped my top comfy highway speeds by about 5 mph which I feel is too limiting. So now I'm thinking the best compromise is back to 16:42 for most road work, 15:42 for off road, and throw in a 17:42 and the bigger chain guard for long distance work.

All this switching around makes a new bolt and washer each time unworkable. I read Creeper's and other's advice reccomending a new bolt and washer each time, and the reasoning make sense, but the service manual does not mention the need. I'm gonna go with fresh 243 each time, proper torque, and changing the bolt and spring washer once a season. I'll let you know if my theory ends up being flawed.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:09 PM   #25
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im sure if you look you could find the spring washers cheap... I reused one for about 2yrs though
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk2surf
im sure if you look you could find the spring washers cheap... I reused one for about 2yrs though
They washer and bolt come as a set for around $5 US. Not bad to switch out occationally but too big a pain for switching around during a trip.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:04 AM   #27
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This is the other CS arrangement. A nut with a tab washer, rather than the bolt with the spring washer, and from the parts list from Liferider's posted about his leaky O-ring, you can see the splined washer. I'll be taking mine off as well, as I have the same leak as Liferider. . . . though you'd never know it. I washed it pretty good yesterday.

edit: this thread is 2 years old??? Oh well, at least there is a good picture of the 'other' countershaft arrangement. The information out there really only refers to the bolt. I'm pretty sure this style will not back off or loosen up.



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Old 05-12-2009, 07:35 AM   #28
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since I'm in the same situation..however I'm going from 15/45 to 16/42 cause it's waaaay too slow for any roadwork...and first gear is unusable at this gear ratio..I've got to ask..is there any benefit to using the rubber washer CS sprocket versus the non rubber one?
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:15 PM   #29
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bonebag, I hear the rubberized CS sprocket was for drivetrain noise reduction, but who knows?

b-rod, taking that arrangement on and off would also lead to fatigue eventually eh? Bending the tabs back and forth. Plus the spring washer is supposed to transmit some amount of force onto the sprocket to help keep the CS sealed, while also giving the CS the ability to move laterally (I am guessing). I don't know why KTM switched, and if there were any other changes to go along with the change.

sparrowhawk, I would think of the CS bolt and spring washer fatigue would relate more to the number of times it is stretched and released, not the time on the bike. Is there a way to easily measure fastener stretch, or is that only something the engineers do? Maybe an easy way to check the spring washer's resiliency?
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:33 PM   #30
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Ruduced function of the bolt and spring washer are likely related to the number of times the parts are installed and removed. A CS sproket would only be on the bike until the chain is worn so there shouldn't be any problems from simply too much use. I've no idea if the bolt is a fancy stretch type or not. Many modern cylinder head bolts are like that. Torque the head bolts according to instructions and dispose of and replace if ever removed. I wouldn't expect there is a cost effective way to test either the bolt or spring. KTM used to sell the washer and bolt seperate. Now they come as one part (#59033034044).

I think around 2003 the 640s transitioned to the nut and washer shown in B-Rod's post. None of the other shaft parts were changed so I think the function of the spring washer was simply to keep the bolt in place. The new washer is soft (not spring) metal and available seperately for about $5 US. I would suggest a new one after a couple of uses. It works like a cotter key and will fatigue if bent too many times.

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