ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-29-2006, 04:25 PM   #1
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315
Aaarrrrgggg!!! damn base gaskets....

well, i've been kinda dragging my feet the last 2 days with replacing my base gasket due to me freaking about other issues (should i replace the rings? what about the cam bearing? ......) but decided to take a look at it again this afternoon to decide which one of the 3 base gaskets i'm going to use.

well, you would think it would be easy but, each one has some issues that make me want to rip my hair out!!!!

lets start with the Cometic gaskets.

the Cometic gasket, although made of very nice material, doesn't fit for SH--!!! there are gaps the entire way around the cylinder and especially around the timing chain slot. to say the least i'm a little upset about the "high" quality of this gasket. you'd think they would at least make it fit right....

this one show the area around the cylinder and timing chain.



and here is a closer one of the timing chain area.



now for the OEM gaskets from KTM.

lets start with the metal one, part number 58630035200.

this one must be for the 625 or newer LC4's, because it doesn't fit either. well, let me clarify that, the gasket fits well, but doesn't have the proper holes for the metal dowels that hold the cylinder into the cases.



this is the one that i had planned on using but now obviously i cant unless i modify it myself. has anyone ever had luck with doing something like this? can i just take a drill bit that is the right size and punch out those holes to match? or am i just inviting more doom and gloom?

now for the paper OEM, part number 58030030100.

actually, the only bad thing i have to say about this one is the fact that it is paper!!! it has the best fit of all of them and looks to be of MUCH better quality than the OEM green gasket that i had put in last time. remember this one is listed at 0.7mm, which is just a little thicker than the green which is 0.5mm



so, what do i do here guys? what would you do?

i cant believe that i have 3 different gaskets and not a one of them is what i need and want!!! typical KTM for ya.....

i'm going to drink a beer and think about my options, maybe ill just set it on fire and push it into my landlords house and claim it was an accident. he's on my SH-- list anyways and it would at least make me smile....

laters,

laramie
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)

laramie LC4 screwed with this post 08-25-2011 at 07:21 AM
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2006, 04:33 PM   #2
christian
Exchange your GPS Track!
 
christian's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Oddometer: 2,621
can you push it in my back yard with all the parts and title in a box ?
__________________
FOR SALE Yamaha Majesty '08 link
KTM 950ADV '05.5
KTM 690 '10
christian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2006, 05:11 PM   #3
Cogswell
Spudly Adventurer
 
Cogswell's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Riding with my pal Richard Cranium
Oddometer: 3,766
I would use the cometic gasket in the first picture with a very thin coating of hondabond (the grey colored case sealer) on it. It will help seal in the thin area, and is not prone to leaking at all if used properly.

Mike
__________________
Cogswell Rides To Big Bend
See my airhead project here
Time Warp Vintage Motorcycle Club
The good thing is, your damn motor can't read. If it says oil on the container, it's pretty much OK to dump in there.... ED.
Cogswell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2006, 06:30 PM   #4
PackMule
love what you do
 
PackMule's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: New Hampshah
Oddometer: 19,451







Oh, and I ain't got a clue which one to use...
__________________
Nate in N.E.

Yes, I have a Dakar problem -- that there are 50 weeks of the year without Dakar!

They don't expect you to finish. That's why it's the Dakar. -- PPiA


Get your sweet Pyndon DakARTwork here

Pyndon '13
PackMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2006, 06:32 PM   #5
Cactus Dave
Born to Argue
 
Cactus Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Oddometer: 688
The paper is the easiest and the reduction in compression will be negligible. However, if your confident of your ability to modify, I'd use the metal KTM gasket and carefully drill out and then trim with a rat tail file the locater holes. Be sure to put a wood block behind the gasket, and I'd put a wood block with a pilot hole of the proper size on top and clamp the blocks together with the gasket in between. The gasket may have a tendency to grab the flutes on the bit and ride up the bit while your drilling thereby effectively bending and ruining the gasket (wanna know how I know this?). Clamping the wood blocks stabilizes the metal gasket. The Cometic gasket is probably the best quality - they do make good stuff - but you're asking for a leak with the mismatched surfaces. Maybe not, but you won't know 'till you try, and it leaks. While the Hondabond or Yamabond or high temp silicone sealers work well (I use 'em in lieu of gaskets), they are not intended to fill the large gaps created by the Cometic mismatch. And by the time you goop that much on, you're asking for a lot to ooze into the cam chain tunnel and ultimately find its way into your oiling system thereby probably plugging something (wanna know how I know that as well?). Smart thing taking a break to contemplate over a beer. Good luck.
Cactus Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2006, 09:12 AM   #6
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315
Bluhduh

after speaking with a few other guys who have use the Cometic gasket i guess i got a bad one. figures huh? anyways, i guess ill contact cometic on monday and send them the pics and ask them to either refund my money or send me a new gasket. hopefully they wont give me any shit cause im not in the mood....

ill keep you posted.

laters,

laramie :cheers:
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 10:09 AM   #7
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315
spoke to Cometic gasket company this morning and they were very helpful, no shit what so ever. i sent them the photo's of the gasket along with an explanation of what i thought was wrong with it. they called me back within a short time and said that they agreed and that they had a different base gasket that might be better. it is supposedly for "older" lc4's but he said that it would match up to my cylinder. hopefully this one will work. ill post some pics and a part number when i get it.

laters,

laramie
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006, 06:57 PM   #8
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315
you guys ever get the feeling that things just weren't ment to be....??????



just got my gasket from Cometic and guess what ?????

come on, take a wild guess......




















IT DONT FIT !!!!!!!!!!!

it is the EXACT SAME as the newer, OEM Metal gasket. so im going to go out on a limb and say that ktm outsources their gasket making to Cometic now a days.

so now im back at step one again. do i dare try and use the other Cometic gasket that doesnt have very good coverage ? or do i try and modify one of these new ones to make it work ? i guess since i now have 2 of them i can afford to make at least 1 mistake.....

if i wasnt still needing other parts (rings and cam bearing) id would be extremely pissed off !!!!!

im starting to get the same feeling i had with my ex-wife....maybe its just time to part ways.

laters,

laramie
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006, 08:08 PM   #9
Groundhog
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Groundhog's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Kansas Flatlands
Oddometer: 188
Just thinking out loud as it were but ...

Seems there have been several issues with base gaskets lately. I was trying to figure out any possible causes because I don't think there should be enough pressure in the cylinder base (crankcase) to blow gaskets. Is there a restriction in the vent? Hose kinked? Is the filter in the vent line partially plugged?

I am sure you have checked all that, but it still seems that there might be some reason that the crankcase pressure is building up. Let me know if you find something would you please?

Another way to cut holes in a gasket (will work on metal too, just a little harder) is to put the gasket in place and tap around the edge of the hole with the peen end of a ball-peen hammer. You wouldn't want to do this on your cylinder, but could use any piece of metal with the proper sized (sharp edged) hole. (drill a hole in a piece of scrap?)

Good luck on the next gasket!
__________________
Groundhog

Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall. Torque determines the size of the hole you make.
Groundhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006, 08:45 AM   #10
meat popsicle
Ignostic
 
meat popsicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
Oddometer: 14,111
Laramie,

Have you looked at these P/N? Just came across this auction.
__________________
Kronreif Trunkenpolz Mattighofen LC4 640

Its not so much staying alive; its staying human that counts.
meat popsicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006, 12:35 PM   #11
Beez
Given to fly
 
Beez's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Framingham, MA
Oddometer: 5,657
Enlarging the holes

I've made my own gaskets in the past (no, not base gaskets ) and I used bullet shells to make the holes. My father-in-law gave me a selection of shells of different sizes. Place the gasket on a piece of wood and pound the shell with a hammer. It cuts a nice clean hole.
Beez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006, 01:20 PM   #12
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Laramie,

Have you looked at these P/N? Just came across this auction.
thanks meat but that has the older, green 0.5 mm base gasket. you can see it in the pic. that gasket set is what you get if you order a complete engine rebuild set. it comes with everything, gaskets, crush washers, everything..... i got one of those for when i rebuild my engine the last time.

laramie :cheers:
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 07:49 PM   #13
PackMule
love what you do
 
PackMule's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: New Hampshah
Oddometer: 19,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beez
I've made my own gaskets in the past (no, not base gaskets ) and I used bullet shells to make the holes. My father-in-law gave me a selection of shells of different sizes. Place the gasket on a piece of wood and pound the shell with a hammer. It cuts a nice clean hole.

A guy from Kalifornia who now lives in Massaschusetts using shell casings to work on his dirt bike.
__________________
Nate in N.E.

Yes, I have a Dakar problem -- that there are 50 weeks of the year without Dakar!

They don't expect you to finish. That's why it's the Dakar. -- PPiA


Get your sweet Pyndon DakARTwork here

Pyndon '13
PackMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2006, 01:00 PM   #14
laramie LC4 OP
crash test dummy!
 
laramie LC4's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Oddometer: 2,315

ok guys, ive been bad about not keeping up on this post. so here it goes....

i finally got sick of waiting and messing with cometic and decided to use the OEM paper gasket with some "high tack" gasket sealant. i reassembled the engine and stuck it in the bike.

as soon as i started the bike i knew thing werent right. the new gasket was leaking worse than the old one that was blown out. to say the least i was a little pissed off!!!

from the looks of it, it was like the gasket had sucked inside the engine and was leaking all around the right side of the jug. i wasnt sure if the gasket or the sealant was to blame? i had used this sealant on many automotive applications and had never had any issues. so i wasnt sure what to think.

well, after taking the engine back apart again today i have the answer.

it wasnt the gasket sealant. in fact i had one hell of a time just getting the jug back off. the sealant was definitely working. in fact i had to rig a board to help me knock it loose.



once i finally got it off, this is what i found....



you can see where it completely missed seating on the cases and under the jug. i have no idea how this happened but thats definitely going to leak. it just seems kinda strange to me that the sealant held so solid in all but that one spot. why would it just fall in like that?

anyways, this isnt going to happen again. this time im using the "original" metal cometic gasket that i got in the first gasket set i ordered. the one that i thought didnt have enough coverage. i tried to modify the other one but was afraid that id never get it perfect and would be right back at first base again real quick. if that were to happen, i think id just loose it and drive the bike head on into traffic!!!!

so cross your fingers for me and wish me luck. i know this bike wants to run, it just needs a little encouragement.

ill keep ya posted,

laters,

laramie
__________________
DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
laramie LC4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2006, 06:32 AM   #15
Stu
Buffo Maximus
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Eastern YahooLand
Oddometer: 874
Gaskets

Don't worry too much about cutting the gasket. Beez and Cactus Dave are both right. In the, uh, old days we used to make all of our gaskets from blank material. (Remove the studs and stick the oiled surface on the gasket material to mark it.) We did not use sealers. We just put them on dry. We would purchase different thickness material to get different deck height. Sometimes the sealers will make the gasket "walk". Not always, but I found that out the hard way once before a race....
Stu
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014