ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2006, 10:21 PM   #1
bosh OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
bosh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Calefornia
Oddometer: 191
Thoughts on CA Spark Arrestor law

Hi all, I've just picked up a mini thumper (ok... tapper?) so I can ride around with my daughter, (she has a TT-R90) at the OHV parks in Ca.
My new ride has a green sticker but no spark arrestor.
Anyway, I made one out of some screen and installed it. It will function fine. However I keep hearing that the CA SVRA's require a "USFS approved" spark arrestor. Checking it out I find that some of the SVRA websites state "USFS approved" and some just state "spark arrestor" required.

To make a long story short[er] I checked out California law regarding spark arrestors and found that according to the actual law, USFS approval is not required if the pipe has a device that will filter out particles 0.0232" or larger. "OR" being the key word in line "C" of the law printed below for your reading enjoyment.

I'm interested in your experiences with how the Rangers are really interpreting the reg.

Anyone been to Carnegie? How do they do it there?

"CVC 38366. (a) Notwithstanding Section 4442 of the Public Resources Code, and except for vehicles with mufflers as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 27150) of Chapter 5 of Division 12, no person shall use, operate, or allow to be used or operated, any off-highway motor vehicle, as defined in Section 38006, on any forest-covered land, brush-covered land, or grass-covered land unless the vehicle is equipped with a spark arrester maintained in effective working order.
(b) A spark arrester affixed to the exhaust system of a vehicle subject to this section shall not be placed or mounted in such a manner as to allow flames or heat from the exhaust system to ignite any flammable material.
(c) A spark arrester is a device constructed of nonflammable materials specifically for the purpose of removing and retaining carbon and other flammable particles over 0.0232 of an inch in size from the exhaust flow of an internal combustion engine
or which is qualified and rated by the United States Forest Service.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not be applicable to vehicles being operated off the highway in an organized racing or competitive event upon a closed course, which is conducted under the auspices of a recognized sanctioning body and by permit issued by the fire protection authority having jurisdiction."
bosh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 10:57 PM   #2
meat popsicle
Ignostic
 
meat popsicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
Oddometer: 14,160


I am considering a Staintune can, which does not have a sparkie. No aftermarket widget either. I have a note on how to use one of the dB eaters for a sparkie, with some SS screen and a welder, but like you I am unsure if this flies with the rangers, both state and federal.
__________________
Kronreif Trunkenpolz Mattighofen LC4 640

Its not so much staying alive; its staying human that counts.
meat popsicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 11:40 PM   #3
elgreen
Crotchety Contrarian
 
elgreen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 436
Basically, the federal rangers look for the USFS stamp on the muffler if the muffler looks non-OEM or most importantly *sounds* non-OEM (they do *not* like loud bikes, they're rangers because they like the peace and quiet of the wilderness and loud bikes annoy them to no end). No USFS stamp, you get a ticket. If the muffler is loud enough, you might even irritate them enough that they'll confiscate the bike on the spot as a safety hazard.

I don't know anything about how the California parks rangers at the OHV areas do things. Just note that general rule in California law enforcement is "if in doubt, give the ticket." I.e., if there is any doubt over whether it is legal or not, they'll just go ahead and give the ticket, and let the judge decide all the legal mumbo-jumbo if you decide to fight the ticket in court. Cops aren't lawyers, and are immune to specious legal reasoning put forth by wanna-be lawyers because, quite frankly, they *do not care*. They view their job as enforcing the law, not quibbling the fine details of the law -- the latter is a job for lawyers. If the judge comes down and tells them different, they'll do what the judge says. Otherwise, they use their best judgement according to the facts in their possession. Whether that agrees with your own interpretation of the law or not is of supreme disinterest to them, the law is what a judge says it is, not what you say it is.

-E
elgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 07:06 AM   #4
El Hombre
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Alta Coma, California
Oddometer: 1,536
It's the PRK, of course they're going to take the strictest interpretation of the law. Get the magic USFS stamp of approval.
El Hombre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 07:40 AM   #5
Cpt. Ron
Advrider #128
 
Cpt. Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 3,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgreen
Basically, the federal rangers look for the USFS stamp on the muffler if the muffler looks non-OEM or most importantly *sounds* non-OEM (they do *not* like loud bikes, they're rangers because they like the peace and quiet of the wilderness and loud bikes annoy them to no end). No USFS stamp, you get a ticket. If the muffler is loud enough, you might even irritate them enough that they'll confiscate the bike on the spot as a safety hazard.

I don't know anything about how the California parks rangers at the OHV areas do things. Just note that general rule in California law enforcement is "if in doubt, give the ticket." I.e., if there is any doubt over whether it is legal or not, they'll just go ahead and give the ticket, and let the judge decide all the legal mumbo-jumbo if you decide to fight the ticket in court. Cops aren't lawyers, and are immune to specious legal reasoning put forth by wanna-be lawyers because, quite frankly, they *do not care*. They view their job as enforcing the law, not quibbling the fine details of the law -- the latter is a job for lawyers. If the judge comes down and tells them different, they'll do what the judge says. Otherwise, they use their best judgement according to the facts in their possession. Whether that agrees with your own interpretation of the law or not is of supreme disinterest to them, the law is what a judge says it is, not what you say it is.

-E


Wow elgreen, you either have had some nasty experiences with law enforcement, or you like to embelish a little bit. 'Cause your post is strewn with generalities and assumptions. Can you give specific examples?

My experience with park rangers have been wonderful. They were informative about which trails were open, conditions of the trails, and to have a good time. Granted, like anywhere else, there are bad apples to spoil the barrel, I just haven't come across one, yet.

I believe it was Dirt Rider magazine that did an article on exhausts, and they covered the spark arrester issue. According to the article, the US Forest Service does not certify spark arrestors. The certification is a self-service item by the aftermarket manufacturers. I've never seen a ranger look for a label. They use a wire to push down the pipe. If it goes further than the length of the silencer, they know that there is no screen or baffling inside. The OHV areas HAVE been getting tough on loud exhausts, including sound tests in the parking lots as well as out on the trails. So be sure to get one that meets the sound level requirements for your year of bike. I can't imagine a quiet pipe that doesn't also meet the spark arrester requirement.
__________________
Cpt. Ron

"I don't know what you do, but I know what I do, and I don't do that." --Uncle Doug, R.I.P.
"Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible"--Reinhold Messner
Cpt. Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 08:21 AM   #6
meat popsicle
Ignostic
 
meat popsicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
Oddometer: 14,160
Some linkey poos

A link to one of the bad stories returned this info:

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad.com
... Big Gun's spark arrestor has passed the $1,700.00 U.S.F.S. test in the San Dimas, CA facility qualifying it as certified...
$1,700! That's it?!? IMhO, no manufacturer has an excuse if its this cheap. Anyways, take a look at what the San Dimas, CA Technology Development Center has to say... here is one page from their website:

Off-Highway Vehicle Spark Arrestors

Did not find this report:
Spark Arrester Guide Volume 1, General Purpose and Locomotive.
This guide is to be used by field personnel to inspect internal combustion engine exhaust systems in the field.

I found an online souce for lots of sparkie endcaps. Folks have others?
__________________
Kronreif Trunkenpolz Mattighofen LC4 640

Its not so much staying alive; its staying human that counts.

meat popsicle screwed with this post 10-04-2006 at 09:32 AM
meat popsicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 08:23 PM   #7
Tholund
Adventurer
 
Tholund's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Various locations in SOCAL
Oddometer: 87
As posted earlier, there is the USFS standard and the California VC standard. Riding on Federal lands will require a stamp on the silencer or documentation that the spark arrestor has been approved by the USFS. Riding on California managed lands will invlove the earlier definition of screen size and type of riding area. To complicate the matter, sometimes the California riding area enforces to the USFS standard.

The greatest factors regarding potential LE contact about your spark arrestor includes:

1. Where you are riding (is it bare desert or forest)
2. When you ride (is it peak fire season or pouring rain)
3. How popular (read crowded) is the riding area?
4. DO YOU VIOLATE OTHER REGULATIONS THAT GET YOU PULLED OVER

If you are riding in desert, don't ride like a #&*@#, and stay away from crowded riding areas...you will most likely never be checked for a spark arrestor. I have rode desert for 35 years and not once been asked about my spark arrestor.

On the other hand if you go to Hungry Valley, in August, ride like a A-H, and go on the busy weeked...prepare to get cited. They even check at the gate on the weekends for the spark arrestors. Almost EVERY time I go to Hungry Valley someone DOES check my spark arrestor.

RangerDan
Tholund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 11:14 PM   #8
bosh OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
bosh's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Calefornia
Oddometer: 191
Thanks for the replys.
The two different standards are what I have found out since my first post as well.
I've also found that just because there is a USFS approved stamp on your pipe doesn't mean it has been certified. There are a few name brands that claim USFS approved that actually are not.
The USFS has a spark arrestor guide they use, it has all of the certified arrestors listed. If yours is not on the list they could cite you.
Unfortunately I can't seem to locate it online.

Anyway, I'll be going to Carnegie this weekend. I guess I'll find out then for sure.
bosh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 10:21 AM   #9
elgreen
Crotchety Contrarian
 
elgreen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Ron
Wow elgreen, you either have had some nasty experiences with law enforcement, or you like to embelish a little bit.
Uhm, no. In general you will not have a problem with law enforcement *AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T RUNNING LOUD PIPES*. If you're running loud pipes in the National Forest, the rangers *will* pull you over and at the very least look to see if there's a USFS stamp on that muffler. I run the stock pipe, so they don't even look twice at me. Which is nice, because I'm also running a gas tank that isn't DOT certified and thus is illegal to ride on the street .

Basically, if you don't go out looking for trouble, cops won't bring it to you. If you are doing something antisocial (like disturb the peace of the forest with pipes that can be heard from downtown Los Angeles, or doing wheelies up and down the center of the campground in general terrorizing the campers), they will find a way to make your life misery. Lesson: Be a good citizen. Do the right thing, and the cops won't even look your way except to say, "Nice bike!". Now that ain't so hard, is it?!

As I said, I don't know about the California riding areas. I just advise to be a good citizen -- don't ride loud pipes, and use a pipe that has a spark arrester that meets USFS standards because it's the right thing to do to prevent forest fires. Just do the right thing. If you do that, you will have no problems -- guaranteed. Now that ain't so hard, is it?!

-E
elgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 11:09 AM   #10
EMathy
Cancer Sucks!
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 168
I'd err on the side of caution and get yourself a good spark arrestor. We just got rain in Oakland last night, but other than that it's really dry right now. Besides appeasing the Rangers (whom I personally have never, ever had an issue with) you'll be safer as far as accidental fires go.

I'm running an inexpensive FMF Megamax on my XR600R. It's not expensive, not too loud and has an approved spark arrestor.
__________________
- Erik Mathy
Ride the Divide...Conquer Cancer!

“If children have the ability to ignore all odds and percentages, then maybe we can all learn from them. When you think about it, what other choice is there but to hope? We have two options, medically and emotionally: give up, or Fight Like Hell.” - Lance Armstrong
EMathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 11:14 AM   #11
Cpt. Ron
Advrider #128
 
Cpt. Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 3,112
I certainly don't ride like an asshat, and I like quiet bikes. Since my bike is dualsported, I don't usually ride in OHV parks, anyway. Plus, my bike has all of the required equipment in working order, horn too. When I have ridden in OHV parks with previous bikes, there was never any questions about the stamp on the pipe, just the coat hanger trick. I have yet to ride anyplace where they do sound testing, either.

My XR came with a Moriwaki which is fairly quiet (all of my other bikes have stock pipes). I think it has the spark arrester installed (there is an insert with a fine mesh inside), however there is nothing stamped on the pipe stating USFS Approved. Now I'm worried if I do decide to enter an enduro or ride in a populated OHV area that I may get "busted" for a non-approved spark arrester, even though it meets the intent of the law.

Sheesh, what a world we live in. A few asshats make it a pain in the ass for the rest of us.
__________________
Cpt. Ron

"I don't know what you do, but I know what I do, and I don't do that." --Uncle Doug, R.I.P.
"Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible"--Reinhold Messner
Cpt. Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 12:14 PM   #12
EMathy
Cancer Sucks!
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 168
I'm of two minds on it. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. But out of control forest fires are worse. The best case scenario is giving rangers the leeway to OK a spark arrestor regardless of it's having a USFS stamp or not.

IMHO, of course.
__________________
- Erik Mathy
Ride the Divide...Conquer Cancer!

“If children have the ability to ignore all odds and percentages, then maybe we can all learn from them. When you think about it, what other choice is there but to hope? We have two options, medically and emotionally: give up, or Fight Like Hell.” - Lance Armstrong
EMathy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 12:38 PM   #13
Sniper X
De Oppresso Liber
 
Sniper X's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Central New Mexico, 7420ft above sea level
Oddometer: 33,306
I only know of my own experience at Hollister and there no body ever checked the silencer out or anything else for that matter. I did have a USFS approval stamping on the silencer on the KX I was riding though. I now live right by and ride thru a national park everyday so I put a pipe on my supermoto that has the USFS approval. It is a procircuit Type 496, nice pipe, good sound and power.
__________________
" The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."
Straight Out Da Trailah!
Sniper X is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014